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Lessons from the Failed War on Drugs


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#91    shrooma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:38 PM

.

Edited by shrooma, 24 February 2013 - 10:38 PM.

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#92    danielost

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

So you guys want toi tax drugs and at the sametime try to keep people from using them.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#93    third_eye

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:44 PM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 24 February 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

The nation seems to have kept tobbaco under control as far as bootlegged smokes. I think the legalization of weed would be the same.  I`m not even sure if its legal to grow ones own tobacco. If it was legal then I guess 10 bucks a pack would drop.  I can make my own beer and wine but can`t grow tobbaco..  I will have to look into this as I would love to grow my own ciggs with out the governmentécompany adding all those chemicels.

You can grow tobacco but you cannot sell it or cigarettes, what does that smell like to you ? ;)

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#94    shrooma

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:05 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 24 February 2013 - 10:44 PM, said:



You can grow tobacco but you cannot sell it or cigarettes, what does that smell like to you ? ;)
.
i'd say it smells like marlboro country.....
:-)

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#95    AsteroidX

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

No. we want to legalize drugs and perhaps allow the States to tax them. The Federal Govmnt has been heinous to its own population and  foreign populations in its execution of the war on the drugs and does not deserve to continue to profit off of them.


#96    Gromdor

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:15 PM

View Postdanielost, on 24 February 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

So you guys want toi tax drugs and at the sametime try to keep people from using them.

Nah, personally I give up on trying to stop people from using them.  Now I am more focused on minimalizing the damage and cost they have on society.  Outlawing drugs proved to be as futile as trying to outlaw stupid.


#97    Orcseeker

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:03 AM

View PostGromdor, on 24 February 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

There is also a health aspect to look at.  A former co-worker (now deceased), had a similar story to Pallidin's.  He was formerly a drug addict.  One day he wanted to shoot up some heroin, he found a needle on the floor of the bathroom in a nightclub and shot up with toilet water. Needless to say he developed Hep-C.  He was only speculating that this was how he got it, by the way, as this was the lowest he sunk.  A decade goes by, he cleans up.  But of course it is too late.

Looking at his case I could see a few points.
  If he had access to clean needles- he probably wouldn't have gotten hep-c.
  Street drugs are rarely "pure"- usually they are mixed with other things to increase its volume and make it more profitable.  Baby laxatives, rat poison,  anything could be in it.
  If he were in a legal, commercialized place that monitored drug users instead of a night club bathroom then someone would be there to curtail his more destructive habits. (Using toilet water)

I know, the guy was an idiot and why should we care!?
Because you paid for him.  His liver was so badly scarred and his kidneys were failing so he needed the occasional dialysis and he was on a waiting list for a transplant.  Because he was so sick all the time, he didn't work enough for insurance to kick in.

One of the reasons I debate for safe injecting stations amount other things for the harder drugs.


#98    pallidin

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:44 AM

Drug use is a difficult topic, in my opinion.

It's not the same for all user's.

But I do appreciate the comments here, especially with regards to my daughter.

For myself, I can no longer recreationaly enjoy stimulants of any kind, be it it caffeine, cocaine or meth, due to a bad anxiety disorder.
I even have to be careful with cigs!

Strangely enough, I can not smoke pot anymore as it makes my condition worse(for some it helps calm them, I know), and I used to do it all the time before I developed my disorder. Now, though, it will set me off.

I'm OK with decriminalization of pot. Even personal-use legallization.

However, the "harder" drugs(meth, cocaine, pcp, heroin, LSD, etc...), in my opinion, should NOT be decriminalized.

Funny thing is, alcohol could be most certainly classed as a hard-drug, but I am grateful for it when I have my anxiety attacks and no medicine.

Edited by pallidin, 25 February 2013 - 01:46 AM.


#99    third_eye

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:29 AM

View Postshrooma, on 24 February 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

.
i'd say it smells like marlboro country.....
:-)

Which marlboro country ? The Brits or the Yanks ?

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#100    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

Give me the power and I will nationalize the alcohol and tobacco industries, ban any advertisements of them and put them in unbranded plain packaging, then sell them to the public at a cost high enough to cover expenses but not let the government make a profit either.

As for other non-medical drugs, I think I would do the same thing, except for the seriously addictive or otherwise dangerous ones, I would probably make getting them subject to prescription or some such procedural control.

Medical drugs that are deemed relatively safe (nothing is absolutely safe) should be dispensable at the pharmacist's discretion.  This is one of the reasons health care is so expensive in the States -- you have to see a doctor to get even a simple thing like a diuretic.  Not only is the doctor visit time consuming and costly, but all the paper-work this setup demands adds to costs.  Only when the authorities determine that a drug is genuinely and seriously dangerous in a way that cannot be handled with warning labels would I make a prescription necessary.


#101    AsteroidX

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

Quote

Give me the power and I will nationalize the alcohol and tobacco industries, ban any advertisements of them and put them in unbranded plain packaging, then sell them to the public at a cost high enough to cover expenses but not let the government make a profit either.

As for other non-medical drugs, I think I would do the same thing, except for the seriously addictive or otherwise dangerous ones, I would probably make getting them subject to prescription or some such procedural control.

Medical drugs that are deemed relatively safe (nothing is absolutely safe) should be dispensable at the pharmacist's discretion.  This is one of the reasons health care is so expensive in the States -- you have to see a doctor to get even a simple thing like a diuretic.  Not only is the doctor visit time consuming and costly, but all the paper-work this setup demands adds to costs.  Only when the authorities determine that a drug is genuinely and seriously dangerous in a way that cannot be handled with warning labels would I make a prescription necessary.

You would need an educated public but spot on. Even a simple diuretic can kill if abused.


#102    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:39 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 25 February 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

You would need an educated public but spot on. Even a simple diuretic can kill if abused.
Well yes so can aspirin.  Educating the public is an interesting issue -- warning labels and drug advertising would need serious regulation and who actually dispenses the pills at the drug store would need watching.  There are a million and one more little devils in the details of such a system, but it seems to work in many countries.


#103    CrimsonKing

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:40 AM

I do not do drugs myself but have several friends who smoke pot.I tried it some when i was younger just not my thing,i prefer to drink when wanting to unwind.That said i see no problem at all with marijuana i would rather if in severe pain a doc give me a joint than a pain pill.Marijuana has several uses and is only slightly addictive.I agree the hard stuff should stay illegal even though being illegal hasnt really stopped anyone from abusing any of it.Outlawing things just does not work unless brutal measures are taken to enforce it.

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#104    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 08:46 AM

I would not underplay the harm possible in anything you smoke, nor the phenomenon we have all seen of the "pot-head."  Still, in Vietnam marijuana is readily available and the police periodically shoot a big drug distributor (they've change the law, now they administer a lethal injection), but ordinary use is pretty much ignored so long as its private.  At least that is what I observe: I am not privy to police policy.  Certainly putting users in jail is gross overkill and does society massive harm.


#105    Jinxdom

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:06 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 25 February 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Give me the power and I will nationalize the alcohol and tobacco industries, ban any advertisements of them and put them in unbranded plain packaging, then sell them to the public at a cost high enough to cover expenses but not let the government make a profit either.

As for other non-medical drugs, I think I would do the same thing, except for the seriously addictive or otherwise dangerous ones, I would probably make getting them subject to prescription or some such procedural control.

Medical drugs that are deemed relatively safe (nothing is absolutely safe) should be dispensable at the pharmacist's discretion.  This is one of the reasons health care is so expensive in the States -- you have to see a doctor to get even a simple thing like a diuretic.  Not only is the doctor visit time consuming and costly, but all the paper-work this setup demands adds to costs.  Only when the authorities determine that a drug is genuinely and seriously dangerous in a way that cannot be handled with warning labels would I make a prescription necessary.


Ummm... The only part that isn't being done right now is the nationalization of tobacco and alcohol.(even the bland packaging for the most part) That is pretty much how the system works already.

Honestly though you can just hit up the a walk-in clinic for a consult for like 75 bucks and basically get any drug you want if you put in a little effort in to research and say more then give me this drug. Not at all expensive nor time consuming not a bad system really unless you factor in when doctors try to push medications on you but that's a whole different spiel. (I even talked my way to getting Vicodin when I had a bad cough the regular over the counter stuff makes me feel odd, that actually stopped my cough :P )

Would be far better with nationalized healthcare though and kick insurance companies out. With doctors who do not want to be nationalized still be able to provide a private practice.

The war on drugs is nothing more then a way to control who makes money off of it. Better off regulating production and packaging then outright banning, and criminalization. Considering most serious problems comes from the whole not knowing what is in it and what it will do to you. I'd also increase addiction treatment in general so people who need help can get it.

Edited by Jinxdom, 25 February 2013 - 09:41 AM.





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