311 replies to this topic

[Sensible Logic]

quillius, on 27 October 2011 - 08:36 AM, said:

Hello,

I have only recently looked at some abduction cases, and whilst the more prominent cases such as the Hills or Travis Walton seem to make for interesting discussion, I came across the Pascagoula case.

I have not found any decent debunking of the case and I am struggling to find an explanation. I understand we have no evidence in the case that could be tested but there are some very interesting elements, especially the fact that they continued their story whilst being secretly recorded.




My link

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From what I have read even Klass has struggled with this one and his debunk seemed to rest on the polygraph test. Actually its more the person carrying out the test and his lack of training qualifications.....ok so this may mean we cannot trust the test results but by default that doesnt render them false and that the opposite result is applicable.

I have found this link very useful, containing some well written points.

My link

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I would welcome any further information or thoughts.

Thanks

I found this info which if accurate would make me skeptical of the event:

Quote

The supposed UFO landing and abduction site was in full view of two 24-hour toll booths, and neither operator saw anything that night. Also, the site was in range of security cameras from nearby Ingalls Shipyard, but the cameras did not capture anything unusual that night

http://en.wikipedia....goula_Abduction

[quillius]

Sensible Logic, on 27 October 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

I found this info which if accurate would make me skeptical of the event:



http://en.wikipedia....goula_Abduction

Hi SL,

the rest of that quote is here:

Quote

Subsequent investigation by Joe Eszterhas of Rolling Stone uncovered some additional information. The UFO landing site was in full view of two twenty-four hour toll booths, and neither operator saw anything. Also, the site was in range of security cameras from nearby Ingalls Shipyard, and the cameras showed nothing that night. But serious doubts can be cast on this late investigation: for example, it is also claimed that motorists from the nearby highway should have seen the blue light in the night and did not. This is plainly wrong, and Sherrif Diamond did respond to that, his office actually received three unnamed reports of motorists who did see the blue light where the two men were abducted, a few hundred yards from the highway.

When I looked for information about reporter Joe Eszterhas, I first found these comments about him: "You all remember Joe Eszterhas, don't you? Child of poor Hungarian immigrants in Cleveland, '60s radical, former gonzo reporter for Rolling Stone, National Book Award nominee and once the highest-paid screenwriter in Hollywood." (1) Not quite a qualified ufologist profile.

The case was all but closed Charles Hickson. Years after, he explained that he was still in contact with aliens beings. His son Eddie, at the age of 36, explained that Charles Hickson had a flat object, gray, the size of a coin, which warmed up before he received telepathic messages. Hickson continued to undergo psychological testing as he had experienced at least two serious mental crises. He had the opportunity to undergo hypnotic regressions again, this time new images went up to the surface: apparently, there were beings which seemed human, behind a glass pane in the craft, they passively looked at the three strange creatures which scanned Hickson. It is at this point that he interpreted the three strange beings as sorts of robots, directed by the human like creatures who would have been the real occupants of the craft. But the investigations at this time were very discrete, Hickson did not reach for media attention and it seems difficult to make all the light on these after-effects.

if you go back a page on this thread to post #13, there is some more info plus a link.

[mcrom901]

quillius, on 27 October 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

However for this to stand up, surely the experience, along with descriptions/perceptions of what they saw would have to differ, would it not?

that's what i was trying to gather from the individualistic yet corroborating description of the events... but haven't looked much... there was a link on the wiki page which had videos of them being interviewed... so, considering how the stories got evolved later on, i'm not sure to what extent the initial details described would have been laid out as perceived then (without embellishments) and to what extent the stories confirm one another... initially one of them claimed to have fainted... at what point? what did he see about the other abductee and vice-versa... did they both experience 'entities' and is it here where the rest of the story kinda takes off?

[quillius]

mcrom901, on 27 October 2011 - 03:54 PM, said:

that's what i was trying to gather from the individualistic yet corroborating description of the events... but haven't looked much... there was a link on the wiki page which had videos of them being interviewed... so, considering how the stories got evolved later on, i'm not sure to what extent the initial details described would have been laid out as perceived then (without embellishments) and to what extent the stories confirm one another... initially one of them claimed to have fainted... at what point? what did he see about the other abductee and vice-versa... did they both experience 'entities' and is it here where the rest of the story kinda takes off?

I understand that he fainted at some point when the 'beings' had approached them, or at least soon after.

I think we need to look at the initial interrogations, of which it seesm there were three.

The original linked source provides a link to the transcript for the third interrogation.

If you go to this place My link
it has the initial conversations.

From what I can tell so far the main similarities (bearing in mind, he fainted and has little recollection after this until waking up outside of craft- again note nothing to confirm he even went inside as Hickson did)

They both describe the UFO, colour and sizes the same.
They both describe door opening
they both describe 3 beings coming out
they both say the craft always floated above ground
they both describe beings as 'floating/gliding' towards them
they both describe the claw type hands....Parker makes reference to Crabs and Lobsters in attempt to describe beings 'hands'
they both describe the buzzing sound. (curious as to the plasma effect, is it audio as well as visual disturbance?)

will keep digging  

[Scepticus]

Question number 1.

If they were afraid of getting ridiculed why would they try to get hold of a news reporter?

Edited by Scepticus, 27 October 2011 - 05:24 PM.

[TheMcGuffin]

This Hickson-Parker case took place during the 1973 UFO wave, which was worldwide.  Some of the better-known incidents are listed here:

http://www.nicap.org...1973fullrep.htm


Parker suffered a nervous breakdown as a result of this UFO encounter and Hickson was clearly obsessed with it for the rest of his life, but that also happened with Betty Hill.  

http://www.nicap.org...oula_report.htm



They first phoned Keesler Air Force Base to report the incident, but then were told to inform the local sheriff.  At that point they also tried to contact a local reporter but the offices were closed, so at that point they did go to the sheriff.  That was when he put them in a locked room and secretly taped them to find out if they were hoaxing, but they were not.  

Whatever really happened to them out there, it scared them badly.  Parker really was scared to death and did not like talking about it at all.

http://www.nicap.org...agoula_page.htm

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 27 October 2011 - 06:18 PM.

[TheMcGuffin]

Hickson was interviewed by Dr. James Harder about the incident, and Harder also tried to hypnotize him, but Hickson became too upset to continue.

[TheMcGuffin]

Dr. Hynek also interviewed Hickson, who said that the story was leaked out of the sheriff's department:

Edited by TheMcGuffin, 27 October 2011 - 06:20 PM.

[quillius]

Scepticus, on 27 October 2011 - 05:21 PM, said:

Question number 1.

If they were afraid of getting ridiculed why would they try to get hold of a news reporter?

Quote

Hickson and Parker sat in a car for the next 45 minutes calming their shattered nerves, trying to decide what to do next. Hickson drank whiskey during this conversation in the car. As the two men began to regain their composure, they were uncertain as to what they should do. Reluctant to report their harrowing experience, they felt obligated to tell someone: they were truly convinced that the government might want, or ought, to know about what they understood as a state of the art lien invasion of our planet. Parker suggested they contact the military. So despite fearing ridicule, Hickson located a pay phone and called Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi, 30 miles west of Pascagoula. A sergeant there told him that the Airforce did not handle UFO reports, and advised them to report their problem to their local sheriff's office. Afraid of what reaction they might get from law enforcement, they opted instead to drive to their local newspaper the Mississippi Press Register. Parker who was driving got out and explained to Hickson that there was a clock in the building and he wanted to know what time it was. Finding the office closed, they decided to take their bizarre story to the sheriff after all. They called the Jackson County Sheriff's Office, led by Fred Diamond, where the deputy Captain Ryder, who took the call urged them to come in to the station and talk in person as he realised something important had happened because of the alarmed tone of their voices. They were interrogated exhaustively.

I think you can see from the rest of the text, the emotions and confusion they were feeling. There is no standard reaction (bar shock) I should imagine in such an experience, whether it be in their minds or real ET....harrowing I should think.

[quillius]

TheMcGuffin, on 27 October 2011 - 06:12 PM, said:

Hickson was interviewed by Dr. James Harder about the incident, and Harder also tried to hypnotize him, but Hickson became too upset to continue.[media]

yes, and apparently they said that it is difficult to 'act' as scared as he showed signs of.

TheMcGuffin, on 27 October 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

Dr. Hynek also interviewed Hickson, who said that the story was leaked out of the sheriff's department

And Hynek said he believed they were telling the truth (at least as they perceived it to be).

[TheMcGuffin]

quillius, on 27 October 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

yes, and apparently they said that it is difficult to 'act' as scared as he showed signs of.

And Hynek said he believed they were telling the truth (at least as they perceived it to be).

That's right, Hynek thought they were telling the truth and had probably had some kind of ET experience.

[quillius]

TheMcGuffin, on 27 October 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

That's right, Hynek thought they were telling the truth and had probably had some kind of ET experience.

Hey McG, this from my initial link~;

Quote

The next day Pascagoula was swarming with reporters, and Within 36 hours two scientists had flown in separately. One was James A Harder, a professor of engineering at the University of California Berkeley. Harder was also a consultant for Aerial Phenomena Research Organisation (APRO). The other was J. Allen Hynek, Northwestern University astronomer for 20 years (until 1969) the principle scientific consultant to the Air Force's Project Blue Book. They first both interviewed the men, later Harder would try to hypnotize the two, who were to shaken and distracted for the procedure to work. They had to interrupt the seance with Hickson because he showed an unbearable terror. Harder, a highly experimenter hypnotist, stated "I believe their story because of the absolute panic they showed during hypnotic regression. It is impossible that they could fake such a terror during hypnosis." All who dealt with Hickson and Parker in the aftermath of the encounter believed that the two men were in fact telling what they believed to be the truth. Before J. Allen Hynek left the next day, he told the press that the men were "absolutely honest... They have had a fantastic experience." At a later date, Hynek stated; "There was definitely something here that was not terrestrial".

[quillius]

McG, I just noticed from one of your links the following:

Quote

Hickson and Parker both subsequently passed lie detector tests. Hynek and Harder believed the two men's story. And Hynek was later quoted as saying "There was definitely something here that was not terrestrial".

This is actually the first I have heard of Parker also taking a lie detector test! Do you know anything further about the tests? I cant find anything myself.

[TheMcGuffin]

quillius, on 31 October 2011 - 10:47 AM, said:

McG, I just noticed from one of your links the following:


This is actually the first I have heard of Parker also taking a lie detector test! Do you know anything further about the tests? I cant find anything myself.

This article also says that Parker passed a lie detector test, although I don't know when it was.  Hickson really was like Betty Hill in that he became obsessed with aliens and UFOs for the rest of his life and thought that they were still in contact with him.  I never heard much of anything about Parker, though, who was so upset about this that he had a breakdown.  I'll look around some more to see what I can find.

http://www.cosmostv....or-claimed.html



This was some of the dialogue the police recorded when they were sitting along in the room, not knowing that they were being taped.  It is disturbing, just like the Hill case.  I don't believe that the Hills were lying and I never thought that Hickson and Parker were either.  They had a real experience that shook them very badly.


Parker: "I got to get home and get to bed or get some nerve pills or see the doctor or something. I can't stand it. I'm about to go half crazy."

Hickson: "I tell you, when we're through, I'll get you something to settle you down so you can get some damn sleep."

Parker: "I can't sleep yet like it is. I'm just damn near crazy."

Hickson: "Well, Calvin, when they brought you out, when they brought me out of that thing, damn it I like to never in hell got you straightened out."
His voice rising, Parker said, "My damn arms, my arms, I remember they just froze up and I couldn't move. Just like I stepped on a damn rattlesnake."

"They didn't do me that way", sighed Hickson.

Now both men were talking as if to themselves.

Parker: "I passed out. I expect I never passed out in my whole life."

Hickson: "I've never seen nothing like that before in my life. You can't make people believe.

Parker: I don't want to keep sitting here. I want to see a doctor."

Hickson: "They better wake up and start believing. They better start believing.

Parker: "You see how that damn door come right up?"

Hickson: "I don't know how it opened, son. I don't know."

Parker: "It just laid up and just like that those son-of-b****es, just like that they come out."

Hickson: "I know. You can't believe it. You can't make people believe it."

Parker: "I paralyzed right then. I couldn't move."

Hickson: "They won't believe it. They going to believe it one of these days. Might be too late. I knew all along they was people from other worlds up there. I knew all along. I never thought it would happen to me."

Parker: "You know yourself I don't drink."

Hickson: "I know that, son. When I get to the house I'm going to get me another drink, make me sleep. Look, what we sitting around for. I got to go tell Blanche. What we waiting for?"

Parker: "I got to go to the house. I'm getting sick. I got to get out of here."

Hickson left the room, and Parker was alone.

Parker: "It's hard to believe. Oh God, it's awful. I know there's a God up there.

Read more: http://www.cosmostv....l#ixzz1cPE911Vw

[TheMcGuffin]

quillius, on 31 October 2011 - 10:47 AM, said:

McG, I just noticed from one of your links the following:

This is actually the first I have heard of Parker also taking a lie detector test! Do you know anything further about the tests? I cant find anything myself.

This 1974 article stated that they both took polygraph tests, and the police concluded they were telling the truth.

"They weren't lying," said Howard Ellzy, chief investigator for the Jackson County sheriff's department. "Whatever it was, it was real to them."

Ellzy's evaluation was later backed up by a polygraph test given both men."


http://www.noufors.c...abductions.html


It also said that Parker had to be treated at a hospital for a complete physical and emotional breakdown.