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Atlantis


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#1891    cormac mac airt

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:37 AM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 19 January 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

And...

If you belive in superhumans and "real" gods and santa claus, it up to you. I dont care, most of us try to find a down to earth explaination.

I don't believe any of the above. But then again, I'm not Mycenaean either. :tu:

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1892    Proclus

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:16 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 18 January 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

No, the starting point are Plato's accounts. Without them we have no story of Atlantis.

Thank you that you again accept one of my basic statements!

View Postcormac mac airt, on 18 January 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

If Plato had just generalized his claim you might have an argument. But he didn't. He gave a specific location and size for same, a specific timeframe, specific military and naval capabilities

Since when do authors who handed down to us a distorted tradition know that the tradition was distorted?

View Postcormac mac airt, on 18 January 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

and the claim of dominating most of the Mediterranean from the western end to Italy in the north and to the borders of Egypt in the south. None of which was ever true of any culture up to his time.

Besides the fact that this could be distorted, too (I really give up hope that you ever will understand what that means):
Are you a mystic? Where did you get this knowledge from? You can assume this with a certain likelihood, but you do not know this!
... the Sea Peoples coalition e.g. comprised Sea Peoples (Mediterranean) and Libyians, so from a Egyptian perspective all west and north of them. This is quite a coalition! Really a good candidate for Atlantis.

It is really interesting how constantly you ignore the Sea Peoples by repeatedly saying that there never was something like Atlantis. Any reasons for this? Some Atlantis skeptics have a political agenda, I already mentioned this, and when it comes to the Sea Peoples some are frightened that they could be "Germanic" in a National Socialist sense. Keep calm: "My" Sea Peoples are not "Germanic", they do not come from the north of Europe but from the Mediterranean region. "Nordic" Sea Peoples = nonsense. Hope this makes you sleep better, now.

_

Academic approaches towards Atlantis as a real place: www.Atlantis-Scout.de!

#1893    whitegandalf

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:16 AM

It can also be applied to the bible, makes alot more sense.

When God (A faraway king with his kingdom) sends angels and army leaders to help during the exodus, and after a attack demanded a part of the plunder treasure and young girls, during the travel to the promised land.


#1894    docyabut2

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:27 AM

cormac mac qoute-

So you think that a person and an island are the same thing? Oookay.


In Ancient Greece, Soil Was Sacred

http://dsc.discovery...emple-soil.html


#1895    cormac mac airt

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:33 AM

View PostProclus, on 19 January 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

Thank you that you again accept one of my basic statements!



Since when do authors who handed down to us a distorted tradition know that the tradition was distorted?



Besides the fact that this could be distorted, too (I really give up hope that you ever will understand what that means):
Are you a mystic? Where did you get this knowledge from? You can assume this with a certain likelihood, but you do not know this!
... the Sea Peoples coalition e.g. comprised Sea Peoples (Mediterranean) and Libyians, so from a Egyptian perspective all west and north of them. This is quite a coalition! Really a good candidate for Atlantis.

It is really interesting how constantly you ignore the Sea Peoples by repeatedly saying that there never was something like Atlantis. Any reasons for this? Some Atlantis skeptics have a political agenda, I already mentioned this, and when it comes to the Sea Peoples some are frightened that they could be "Germanic" in a National Socialist sense. Keep calm: "My" Sea Peoples are not "Germanic", they do not come from the north of Europe but from the Mediterranean region. "Nordic" Sea Peoples = nonsense. Hope this makes you sleep better, now.

_

You've shown no evidence there was any 'distorted tradition' that was handed down, putting aside your own speculations on same which don't mean much.

Within the confines of meaningful research and science and the accumulated evidence from same, going back to the time of the earliest anatomically modern human (AMH - c.200,000 BP), then yes I can say this with a pretty great degree of certainty that it didn't happen.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 19 January 2013 - 01:34 AM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1896    cormac mac airt

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:34 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 19 January 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

cormac mac qoute-

So you think that a person and an island are the same thing? Oookay.


In Ancient Greece, Soil Was Sacred

http://dsc.discovery...emple-soil.html

That doesn't make them the same thing.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1897    whitegandalf

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:45 AM

View PostProclus, on 19 January 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

, and when it comes to the Sea Peoples some are frightened that they could be "Germanic" in a National Socialist sense. Keep calm: "My" Sea Peoples are not "Germanic", they do not come from the north of Europe but from the Mediterranean region. "Nordic" Sea Peoples = nonsense. Hope this makes you sleep better, now.

_

The north sea had the ship building skills, the material (wood) for a large continious fleet, a large storable foodsource for millions and incredible large renewable valuable trading resource. The coalision of West of egypt, sicily and a few others has neither, mostly sand. Very little fish, please enlighten me if i'm wrong..

Edited by whitegandalf, 19 January 2013 - 01:47 AM.


#1898    docyabut2

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:48 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 January 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

That doesn't make them the same thing.

cormac


Temples erected in honor of Poseidon and Aphrodite, both linked in myth and iconography to the sea, were built on arid soils near fishing harbors.Maybe Solon`s conception of the tale.

Edited by docyabut2, 19 January 2013 - 01:51 AM.


#1899    whitegandalf

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:06 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 January 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

Within the confines of meaningful research and science and the accumulated evidence from same, going back to the time of the earliest anatomically modern human (AMH - c.200,000 BP), then yes I can say this with a pretty great degree of certainty that it didn't happen.

cormac

I can tell you that there are plenty we dont know about the north sea cultures (and other) yet. For only 50 years ago, nobody belived the vikings had seafearing ships, we didnt know they were in america, we did not know they had telescopes and smoked cannabis. We learn new things all the time. If you think this is it. Nothing more to discover, and absolute sure of it, I feel sorry for you. You must have a boring life. Why are you even here? Only to sabotage? Are you not interested in the truth? There are many wonders and mysteries that will be solved and revealed in the time to come, which we dont know, but we must look, under every stone. The past discoveries shows us the possibilities in the future. And be open to that others may have more information about a subject than than yourself. try to listen instead. If you even care..

Edited by whitegandalf, 19 January 2013 - 02:13 AM.


#1900    Proclus

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:07 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 January 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

You've shown no evidence there was any 'distorted tradition' that was handed down, putting aside your own speculations on same which don't mean much.

Only on this last one:

When will you start to understand that it is about searching, not evidence. Searching means: Evidence still has to be found. What really does annoy me is that you want to prevent me from searching!

I try to avoid the imagination what happened to Galileo if you were the inquisitor ... ("No Mr Galileo, there is no evidence for your claims and was never, and I will not look through your telescope because I know without looking that it cannot show anything I cannot see with my eyes, ...") ... or to Columbus ... ("No Mr Columbus, you cannot reach India sailing the other way round the earth, because no one tried before, and because no one tried before we know it is not possible and we do not have to try it.")

_

Academic approaches towards Atlantis as a real place: www.Atlantis-Scout.de!

#1901    cormac mac airt

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:19 AM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 19 January 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

I can tell you that there are plenty we dont know about the north sea cultures (and other) yet. For only 50 years ago, nobody belived the vikings had seafearing ships, we didnt know they were in america, we did not know they had telescopes and smoked cannabis. We learn new things all the time. If you think this is it. Nothing more to discover, and absolute sure of it, I feel sorry for you. You must have a boring life. Why are you even here? Only to sabotage? Are you not interested in the truth? There are many wonders and mysteries that will be solved and revealed in the time to come, which we dont know, but we must look, under every stone. The past discoveries shows us the possibilities in the future. And be open to that others may have more information about a subject than than yourself. try to listen instead. If you even care..

Speak for yourself. Many have known what apparently you didn't for a VERY long time now.

There is plenty more to discover. None of which requires making up things as you go along.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1902    cormac mac airt

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:21 AM

View PostProclus, on 19 January 2013 - 02:07 AM, said:

Only on this last one:

When will you start to understand that it is about searching, not evidence. Searching means: Evidence still has to be found. What really does annoy me is that you want to prevent me from searching!

I try to avoid the imagination what happened to Galileo if you were the inquisitor ... ("No Mr Galileo, there is no evidence for your claims and was never, and I will not look through your telescope because I know without looking that it cannot show anything I cannot see with my eyes, ...") ... or to Columbus ... ("No Mr Columbus, you cannot reach India sailing the other way round the earth, because no one tried before, and because no one tried before we know it is not possible and we do not have to try it.")

_

Search all you want. But searching for an inspiration won't make it Atlantis. Only something that may have inspired the tale. There IS a difference.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1903    whitegandalf

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:29 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 19 January 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

Speak for yourself. Many have known what apparently you didn't for a VERY long time now.

There is plenty more to discover. None of which requires making up things as you go along.

cormac

I will just ignore you from now. You have nothing to contribute to the discussion. You are probably a paid troll for some christian organisation or something anyway and nobody should take you seriously.


#1904    cormac mac airt

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:52 AM

View Postwhitegandalf, on 19 January 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

I will just ignore you from now. You have nothing to contribute to the discussion. You are probably a paid troll for some christian organisation or something anyway and nobody should take you seriously.

Good, it means a decrease in the amount of ignorance I have to listen to. "We", meaning the scientific community as well as researchers of same know alot more of ancient history via the myriad scientific fields than you are apparently aware of. And for alot longer than you apparently bellieve.

Nope, just not gullible enough to believe that everything we know about the Vikings has only come to be known within the last 50 years.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#1905    Harte

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:07 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 18 January 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Frist of all I have to agree why would Plato make up a myth but used real people to qoute from,  all the characters Plato qouted from were real people, all though Solon in making the tale into a poetic greek tale did copy Homer.
Did you know that it was said that Davy Crockett could grin a 'coon out of a tree?

Then once, in the gloom of night, he pulled the trick on an old gray 'coon he could barely make out in a big oak tree.

He grinned his best at that 'coon, but it never budged, so he kept right on grinning hard as he could all night.

Once dawn was near, and there was more light, he could see he'd been grinning at a knot on a tree limb.

In the light of day, when he climbed up and looked at that knot, he saw where his grinning had started to peel back the bark around the knot!

They told that tale while Crockett was still alive.

Ask your question now - why would they do that?

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