325 replies to this topic

[lightly]

ya,  could be.    I don't remember the source, and it might be balogney.. but someone was suggesting that the smaller T'd circles may have been slighty younger than the larger versions...  one possible reason given for that was that the significance of them was fading (for whatever reason),  or a suddenly much smaller population due to a possible Epidemic.        ... A devastating epidemic would shake your 'faith'.  
  Or.. maybe your Natufians  did it     It will be interesting to see what else is dug up.

[Abramelin]

lightly, on 23 September 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

ya,  could be. I don't remember the source, and it might be balogney.. but someone was suggesting that the smaller T'd circles may have been slighty younger than the larger versions...  one possible reason given for that was that the significance of them was fading (for whatever reason),  or a suddenly much smaller population due to a possible Epidemic. ... A devastating epidemic would shake your 'faith'.  
  Or.. maybe your Natufians  did it It will be interesting to see what else is dug up.

The smaller T-shaped monoliths may have been the precursors of the larger ones of Göbekli Tepe.

Heh, as long as they don't dig up anything new, your guess is as good as mine, or anyone else's for that matter.

I am glad you brought up the Natufians.

They were still much hunter-gatherers at the time the Göblekians were settling down and create a precursor of what we like to call our modern western civilization.

The Göblekians may have captured Natufians, and sacrificed them to their ever hungry vulture god.

We are not that peaceful either, and maybe they treated hunter-gatherers the same like we have done. Just read about what our recent ancestors thought of some African tribes, or the people living in Amazonia or in Borneo and New Guinea or Australia.

'Primitives', enslave them or slaughter them.

"God is great, kill those infidels!!"

And so on.

We are a hopeless species.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 September 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[lightly]

http://www.columbia....v1007/baryo.pdf

^ here is a pdf on the Natufians  ... i only "scanned' it a bit..  but it seemed to say the Natufians were also Hunter Gatherers and is isn't clear if they did much cultivation yet.     It also talks about how and when favorable climate changes allowed for expansion from the coastal areas into the plains   ... and improved living conditions helping birth agriculture.
   The  wet period seems to coincide with the successful period of the *Gobeklians  

Also,   it shows that the Natufians had their own styles of tools and weapons.. so, if their was a war.. there should be evidence of it coming up.

*** it looks like Natufian agriculture and the 'final' burial of Gobekli were both around 8000 BP?

Edited by lightly, 23 September 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[lightly]

been poking around    .. it sounds like "Natufian" is  more of a time period than a culture?
and.. again i run into a claim that constructions at Nevali Cori  are smaller and less impressive with  smaller T pillars..  and around 500 years younger than the excavated ones at Gobekli tepe.

[docyabut2]

Still don`t see how they can date Gobekli to 11,000 years ago, when there no other cultures around at that time. Even the others that are around were dated thousands of years later.To me to date a culture one had to relate it to another of that time. It just could `nt  come out of the blue.

[docyabut2]

The so called T stones at Nevali Cori are no way similar to Gobekli.

Edited by docyabut2, 24 September 2012 - 02:40 AM.

[Abramelin]

docyabut2, on 24 September 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

Still don`t see how they can date Gobekli to 11,000 years ago, when there no other cultures around at that time. Even the others that are around were dated thousands of years later.To me to date a culture one had to relate it to another of that time. It just could `nt  come out of the blue.

Read the whole thread, and not just the last post.

The other sites are of the same age.

They used carbon dating.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 24 September 2012 - 02:40 AM.

[Abramelin]

lightly, on 24 September 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

been poking around .. it sounds like "Natufian" is  more of a time period than a culture?
and.. again i run into a claim that constructions at Nevali Cori  are smaller and less impressive with  smaller T pillars..  and around 500 years younger than the excavated ones at Gobekli tepe.

Yes, according to radiocarbon dating Nevali Çori is somewhat younger.

But there is always an error of a couple of centuries when radiocarbon-dating sites that old.

And then these two sites could have been of the same age.

[Sakari]

The_Spartan, on 17 September 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

It has indeed been posted numerous times, discussed numerous times and it has got a name too Gobekli Tepe.
If you could have bothered to do a search, you would have found the latest threads on Gobekli Tepe.

How about this :

Yes, it has been posted. You can use the search function to try to find information on this, and here is a start :

Abramelin, on 17 September 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Here's a list of topics about Göbekli Tepe:

(click the thumbnail)

GöbekliTepe_list.jpg

Awesome reply...That is a nice way to welcome someone here...

Un like below.

The_Spartan, on 17 September 2012 - 04:46 AM, said:

It has indeed been posted numerous times, discussed numerous times and it has got a name too Gobekli Tepe.
If you could have bothered to do a search, you would have found the latest threads on Gobekli Tepe.

Why even reply ?

[Abramelin]

Well, Sakari, I think we're long past that stage already....

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 24 September 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

Yes, according to radiocarbon dating Nevali Çori is somewhat younger.

But there is always an error of a couple of centuries when radiocarbon-dating sites that old.

And then these two sites could have been of the same age.

Settlement Pattern in Southeast Anatolia:
An analysis of the structures at the site of Nevalı Çori.

Thesis submitted in partial fulfilment of the
requirements for the degree of
Master of Eastern Mediterranean
Archaeology

by Ercoskun Pakize
Leuven 2007

http://www.ethesis.n...ia/anatolia.pdf

[Harsh86_Patel]

Now Gobekli Tepe has opened a whole Pandora's box and the only way mainstream historians can digest the dates is by calling it a one-off temple made by hunter gathers and not really a sign of civilization.But if Gobekli Tepe is not the evidence for a decently advanced civilization with a culture and relegion then what in the world is considered a sign of civilization i do not know?.

Hunter gatherers toiling hard to built such a hugh megalithic structure as a replacement for their caves is one the most stupid answer i have got for this question.

[The_Spartan]

Sakari, on 24 September 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

How about this :

Yes, it has been posted. You can use the search function to try to find information on this, and here is a start :



Awesome reply...That is a nice way to welcome someone here...

Un like below.






Why even reply ?

yes.I replied.
My mistake.
If you read, you would have noticed that i had apologized for being a terse, cad, somewhat boorish guy!.

Now, whats your issue?

[Abramelin]

Harsh86_Patel, on 24 September 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

Now Gobekli Tepe has opened a whole Pandora's box and the only way mainstream historians can digest the dates is by calling it a one-off temple made by hunter gathers and not really a sign of civilization.But if Gobekli Tepe is not the evidence for a decently advanced civilization with a culture and relegion then what in the world is considered a sign of civilization i do not know?.

Hunter gatherers toiling hard to built such a hugh megalithic structure as a replacement for their caves is one the most stupid answer i have got for this question.

I know you deliberately misunderstand things. Anyway, it is time you start reading this thread instead of spouting nonsense.

[Abramelin]

The mystery of Catal Huyuk's Shaman culture has further prompted the belief that the city is actually part of a much greater and older legacy in the Middle East, a shamanistic civilization that originated within the last Ice Age. James Mellart even concluded that the traditions and customs of Catal Huyuk, given the complete maturity and complexity that the culture seemed to exhibit right from the beginning, most likely descended from "an Upper Paleolithic culture, probably Anatolian, of which hardly anything is known." Mellart of course said that during the 1960's, before the discovery of more recent finds now coming to light, including a magnificent set of circular stone temples at Gobekli Tepe, dated to 10,000BC. Coincidentally, Gobekli Tepe's final occupational horizon ends around 7000BC, the same time that Catal Huyuk first arose near Konya not very far away.

Mellart is one of several prehistorians linking the religious symbolism present at Catal Huyuk to that of later Minoan Crete and the earliest forms of Greek religion and myth; although over three thousand years separate the two, Mellart believes that there are enough symbolic parallels to justify a common ancestor. Marija Gimbutas similarly argued in favor of Mellart’s ideas, positing that the Minoan Cretes inherited the traditions of the civilization of Old Europe, the Neolithic Greco-Balkan complex, with which Catal Huyuk played an important part.

Carbon-14 dates show that Knossos, the earliest settlement known on Crete, arose around 6100 BC, a date contemporary with early levels at Catal Huyuk. At base level, evidence of sheep, goat, cattle, and pig, as well as the most "advanced grains of the day", prompts archaeologists studying Knossos to conclude that the founders of Crete arrived by sea with animals and crops already well domesticated. Also, given that the same domesticates occur slightly earlier in western Anatolia, scholars conclude that a departure from west Anatolia to Crete is the most likely course of migration into the Aegean.

If the same unknown “Upper Paleolithic ancestor” even earlier sired the traditions of Catal Huyuk, and later Neolithic Old Europe and Minoan Crete, as Mellart contends, Plato’s vanished Athenians and other prehistoric Greeks mentioned in the philosopher’s Timaeus dialogues might appear to be possible candidates.

http://alternativear...com/catal-huyuk