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The Pyramid and the Yard

great pyramid

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#31    cormac mac airt

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:10 AM

View Postcladking, on 16 June 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

A 5%  error in circumferance is  pretty close to the proper diameter.  If the OP is
correct then it appears to be a good approximation based on their available knowledge.

A believe there was a 3% error even in the 17th century.

In real life nothing ever works out correct to five or ten decimal points.  Remember,
they lacked access to computers and modern technology and knowledge.

I think you need to go back and recheck your math CK. A 5% error in an equatorial radius of 40,075.02 kilometers is 2003.75 kilometers for a revised size of 38,071.27 kilometers. The equatorial diameter of Earth is 12,756.2 kilometers. There's nothing "pretty close" about the two.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 16 June 2013 - 01:10 AM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#32    cormac mac airt

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 01:17 AM

View PostMangoze, on 16 June 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Would it be mischievous to mention the height of the Great Pyramid is about 280 Royal Cubits?

:devil:

Or 326.47 short cubits. But let's not confuse him any more than he already is. :whistle:

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#33    Mangoze

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:15 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 16 June 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

Or 326.47 short cubits. But let's not confuse him any more than he already is. :whistle:

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This is the room for an argument, isn't it?


#34    kmt_sesh

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 02:31 AM

View PostRayGday, on 15 June 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Add these up to get 36275.2 inches which equates to 1007.64 yards.

In 1925, J. H. Cole measured 1007.71 yards

The Yard that the pyramid builders used and the British Yard that Petrie used are the same yard.

Over time the British Yard changed but it's still very, very close to the original.

Ancient Egyptians did not know or use the yard. They used cubits. No modern form of measurement was used in the pharaonic period. The fact that certain lengths measured by the cubit come close to equivalent measurements used by us is, well, nothing more than coincidence.

Like I said, strain and stress and stare hard enough and long enough, and you can make pretty much any mathematical principle seem to apply to the Great Pyramid. Many have done so. That doesn't mean it's meaningful or realistic, however. All that matters is what the ancient engineers knew and how they approached building projects. There are several mathematical papyri which have survived from pharaonic times which tell us how the Egyptians approached mathematics for construction purposes. The yard is not among them.

But I ought to do the reasonable thing and turn this back to you, RayGday. Please share with us the vetted, peer-reviewed, empirical evidence that would support your claims.  

View PostRayGday, on 15 June 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

OK, I'll bite. What did the Egyptians divide their hour into?

They did not divide their hours. In ancient Egypt the shortest unit of time is what they called at, which we can translate as "moment." It did not represent a fixed measure of time.

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#35    kmt_sesh

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:15 AM

View PostMangoze, on 16 June 2013 - 02:15 AM, said:

This is the room for an argument, isn't it?

Always!

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#36    questionmark

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 10:55 AM

View Postshrooma, on 15 June 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

THAT'S what I can't understand cormac, how to go from a 2000 cubit measurement to a 25,000mile one?? guess i'm not drunk enough yet to figure out the leap.....
:-S

You should have seen his calculation why 30 goons can't slide a pyramid block....

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#37    cladking

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:22 PM

View PostRayGday, on 12 June 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

86,400 seconds in a modern day. 24 hours x 60 x 60.

The ancient 360° sky was divided yearly by 12 Moons, Months or Zodiacs and daily by 12 hours.

43,200 secs in the ancient day. 12 hours x 60 x 60.

Hope that helps.

I'm still seking some internal confirmation from the PT but it appears the ancient day
was indeed 43,200 s but the ancient night was equally 43,200 s, just as it is today.  Their
perspective on things was alien to the way we see things today because they learned
everything from scratch starting as cavemen who were identical to animals except for the
ability to pass complex knowledge down from generation to generation. Their situation was
very well known to them as was their  history and metaphysics. They were a force of nature
like a lion or a storm and their power consisted of the accumulation of knowledge and abil-
ity to focus that knowledge rather than fast speeds or strong winds.  Modern people have
lost sight of all this and speculate on whether there is a cat or a box or a cat in the hat.  We
also don't realize that ancients "spoke the same language".  There were numerous "dialects"
but they were mutually intelligible because meaning was expressed in context and grammar
and vocabularies were very short.

The ancients tuned the movement of the planet to reflect human conditions because this is
how they understood everything; in human terms.  They noted that the sun rose later each day
at Giza during the summer by almost exactly 60 heartbeats so this lenght of time became the
minute and the heartbeat became the second.  This was all set to the rythmm of the year which
was set by the "center of the sky".

1496b. while thou dawnest on the east of the sky, "give thy hand . to N.;
1496c. take him with thee to the eastern side of the sky."
1497a. "O Re," say men, when they stand by the side of N. on the earth,
1497b. while thou dawnest on the southern side of the sky, "give thy hand to N.;
1497c. take him with thee to the southern side of the sky."
1498a. "O Rē‘," say men, when they stand by the side of N. on the earth,
1498b. while thou dawnest at the centre of the sky, "give thy hand to N.,
1498c. take him with thee to the centre of the sky."

The sun rises in the east on the equinox and in the south on the winter solstice.  This
defines the center of the sky as the summer  solstice at noon when the sun is highest
overhead and the number of imperishable stars reaches its maximum.  It was absolutely
necessary to have a defined lenght of time of 1s because without it they couldn't under-
stand basic things around them like the delay between an action or lightning strike and
the sound it made.  They couldn't even name things properly without such knowledge.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#38    cladking

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 16 June 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

I think you need to go back and recheck your math CK. A 5% error in an equatorial radius of 40,075.02 kilometers is 2003.75 kilometers for a revised size of 38,071.27 kilometers. The equatorial diameter of Earth is 12,756.2 kilometers. There's nothing "pretty close" about the two.

cormac

So the first gives a diameter of 12762 km and the second gives 12124.

This doesn't seem to be so bad for people who are ascribed the knowledge base that the Egyptians normally are.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#39    cladking

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 16 June 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

Ancient Egyptians did not know or use the yard. They used cubits. No modern form of measurement was used in the pharaonic period. The fact that certain lengths measured by the cubit come close to equivalent measurements used by us is, well, nothing more than coincidence.

Like I said, strain and stress and stare hard enough and long enough, and you can make pretty much any mathematical principle seem to apply to the Great Pyramid. Many have done so. That doesn't mean it's meaningful or realistic, however. All that matters is what the ancient engineers knew and how they approached building projects. There are several mathematical papyri which have survived from pharaonic times which tell us how the Egyptians approached mathematics for construction purposes. The yard is not among them.

In all fairness it should be noted that there is nothing new under the sun.  There's no
reason to suppose that many modern weights and measures might not have come down
to us either directly or indirectly from the most ancient times (even from caveman era).
Of course you're right that there's no evidence that the yard was known to the Egyptians
by any name but the OP is talking about ratios more than measures.


Quote

They did not divide their hours.

I don't believe it's even vaguely possible for men to work together or to have a functioning
society without a unit of time shorter than an hour.  How do you describe simple events to
others without shorter units of time?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#40    cormac mac airt

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 03:51 PM

Quote

Quote

I think you need to go back and recheck your math CK. A 5% error in an equatorial radius* (should have been circumference) of 40,075.02 kilometers is 2003.75 kilometers for a revised size of 38,071.27 kilometers. The equatorial diameter of Earth is 12,756.2 kilometers. There's nothing "pretty close" about the two.

cormac


So the first gives a diameter of 12762 km and the second gives 12124.

This doesn't seem to be so bad for people who are ascribed the knowledge base that the Egyptians normally are.

*Right figures, wrong word above. While the figures are accurate they still don't match what you claimed which was:

Quote

A 5% error in circumferance is pretty close to the proper diameter.

They're not remotely "pretty close".

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt, 16 June 2013 - 03:53 PM.

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#41    cladking

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 04:30 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 16 June 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

*Right figures, wrong word above. While the figures are accurate they still don't match what you claimed which was:



They're not remotely "pretty close".

Everything is perspective... ...always has been.

This reminds me of a "joke" on one of the "IQ tests" when I was a kid.  You remember the ones
like if a plane with 200  passengers crashes right on the Canada/ US border where do  they
bury the survivors.  One was if there were a solid metal ring that encircled the planet and you
cut it and spliced in a ten foot section then how much room would be available between the ring
and the planet?  Most people just guess something very very small but in actuality of course, if
you do the math there's more than three feet.  (you don't bury survivors by the by)

Iconsider the difference between 12762 and 12124 for a diameter of the earth to be fairly nomi-
nal given the means they had to measure it.  It would have been crossed checked in various ways
but this error is better than any modern traiuned scientist could obtain with the materials and know-
ledge they has available probably.

This isn't to say that I agree the OP necessarily is correct.  But he makes a stronger argument
than most of the others.  It is entirely reasonable to think he's right since it's known the size of the
earth always used to be underestimated.  My primary objection to the argument is simply that the
theory is looking only at G1. It seems that if G1 were intended to contain technological information
then others would as well.  I believe there is such information in the pyramids but I'm not convinced
by any single theory to date.  Some are high quality and some aren't; this one seems fairly good.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#42    cormac mac airt

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Posted 16 June 2013 - 06:09 PM

View Postcladking, on 16 June 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Everything is perspective... ...always has been.

This reminds me of a "joke" on one of the "IQ tests" when I was a kid.  You remember the ones
like if a plane with 200  passengers crashes right on the Canada/ US border where do  they
bury the survivors.  One was if there were a solid metal ring that encircled the planet and you
cut it and spliced in a ten foot section then how much room would be available between the ring
and the planet?  Most people just guess something very very small but in actuality of course, if
you do the math there's more than three feet.  (you don't bury survivors by the by)

I consider the difference between 12762 and 12124 for a diameter of the earth to be fairly nomi-
nal given the means they had to measure it.
  It would have been crossed checked in various ways
but this error is better than any modern traiuned scientist could obtain with the materials and know-
ledge they has available probably.

This isn't to say that I agree the OP necessarily is correct.  But he makes a stronger argument
than most of the others.  It is entirely reasonable to think he's right since it's known the size of the
earth always used to be underestimated.  My primary objection to the argument is simply that the
theory is looking only at G1. It seems that if G1 were intended to contain technological information
then others would as well.  I believe there is such information in the pyramids but I'm not convinced
by any single theory to date.  Some are high quality and some aren't; this one seems fairly good.

They weren't measuring the diameter of the earth, but according to the OP were measuring the circumference. And based on utilizing a non-existant 12 hour/60 minute per hour period of daylight measurement from the 26th century, multiplying it against an incorrect GP perimeter yardage to acquire a further incorrect total. And you consider that "pretty close". I guess if one's making up the facts is considered pretty close, you're right. Two wrong items multiplied together don't equal a right answer, no matter how many times one tries.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#43    RayGday

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 10:19 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 16 June 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

And based on utilizing a non-existant 12 hour/60 minute per hour period of daylight measurement

Periods of time, Hours and Seconds, are derived from the Earth's daily rotation.

In modern times we divide the day into 24 units called Hours.

The Hour is further divided into 60 Minutes of 60 Seconds. The same as dividing degrees in a circle.
Resulting in 86.400 seconds in a modern day.


The ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Indian and Chinese divided the day into 12 units.

The 360° sky was divided yearly by 12 Moons, Months or Zodiacs and daily by 12 hours.

The resulting Hour and Second was twice as long as ours.

43 200 seconds in the ancient day.


The original units of length, Yards, are also derived from the Earth's rotation, and Time.

Divide the equatorial distance travelled in 1 second by 1000 and call it a Yard.



The rotational velocity of the earth was exactly 1000 yards/sec. (Equivalent to 1005.6 today)

Note: 1 Yard equals 1.0077 British Yards.

This calculates to a 39,806 km equatorial circumference, about 99.4% of the currently accepted NASA figure of 40,030 km.

Not bad!

The Great Pyramid’s perimeter is 1000 Yards, exactly one ancient second of rotation.


THE PYRAMID REPRESENTS A CIRCLE - THE EARTH

A circle with a 1000 yard circumference has a radius of 159.15 yards. R = C/(2π)

Petrie calculated the pyramid's height to be 160.38 British yards or 159.15 yards. (5776.0 ± 7.0 inches)


By making the height equal to the radius suggests the pyramid was intended to represent a circle. Simple as that.


Posted Image

The perimeter of the Great Pyramid is 1000 yards, exactly as designed.

#44    cormac mac airt

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 11:56 AM

View PostRayGday, on 18 June 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

Periods of time, Hours and Seconds, are derived from the Earth's daily rotation.

In modern times we divide the day into 24 units called Hours.

The Hour is further divided into 60 Minutes of 60 Seconds. The same as dividing degrees in a circle.
Resulting in 86.400 seconds in a modern day.


The ancient Egyptian, Mesopotamian, Indian and Chinese divided the day into 12 units.

The 360° sky was divided yearly by 12 Moons, Months or Zodiacs and daily by 12 hours.

The resulting Hour and Second was twice as long as ours.

43 200 seconds in the ancient day.


The original units of length, Yards, are also derived from the Earth's rotation, and Time.

Divide the equatorial distance travelled in 1 second by 1000 and call it a Yard.



The rotational velocity of the earth was exactly 1000 yards/sec. (Equivalent to 1005.6 today)

Note: 1 Yard equals 1.0077 British Yards.

This calculates to a 39,806 km equatorial circumference, about 99.4% of the currently accepted NASA figure of 40,030 km.

Not bad!

The Great Pyramid’s perimeter is 1000 Yards, exactly one ancient second of rotation.


THE PYRAMID REPRESENTS A CIRCLE - THE EARTH

A circle with a 1000 yard circumference has a radius of 159.15 yards. R = C/(2π)

Petrie calculated the pyramid's height to be 160.38 British yards or 159.15 yards. (5776.0 ± 7.0 inches)


By making the height equal to the radius suggests the pyramid was intended to represent a circle. Simple as that.


Posted Image

The Ancient Egyptians had no concept of minutes or seconds and their hour was based on the available sunlight during the daytime, which varied, and was not based on a set 60 minute period of time. So all you're doing is fabricating a total to, what for the Ancient Egyptians, would be non-existant units of measure. It's meaningless.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#45    shrooma

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    doesn't have one screw fully tightened.....

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 12:43 PM

View Postcladking, on 16 June 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

The sun rises in the east on the equinox and in the south on the winter solstice.
.
it does WHAT??
you might want to check these things before you post 'em clad, otherwise the egg/face scenario keeps coming in to play.....

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