1528 replies to this topic

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 18 November 2012 - 09:02 PM, said:

Oberg should be glad that I'm not one of those who imagines that the moon landings were all fake.  I just think that NASA has always been covering up anything to do with ETs and UFOs.

That's pretty obvious.

It's also pretty obvious that you're smart enough to be not really confident about ANY of the stories you've heard, as evidenced by how promptly you run away from every single story, when asked for real evidence or analysis, and throw up a blizzard of new stories, each one soon to be likewise abandoned the instant it's challenged.

Also very telling is the effort you make to keep your eyes and mind closed to contrary arguments, and how this betrays some lingering [and well deserved] doubt deep in your soul that you might be seduced by the arguments, if you ever actually read them or tried to understand them. A wise strategy, considering how flimsy all the evidence you've thrown up so far has turned out to be.

[TheMacGuffin]

John Schuessler worked at NASA for many years, and said that the first UFO reports he knew about were from Gemini IV.  He also said that some of the UFO pictures had been altered or just gone "missing."  With Gemini IV, for example, the UFO pictures that NASA released were not the ones that the astronauts took.

John Schuessler is a Denver area resident and retired aerospace engineer from Lockheed Martin. He worked at NASA on nearly every manned U.S. space flight since its inception. In a March 19, 2008 lecture in Lakewood, CO, Schuessler talked about seeing an unfamiliar photo from one of the Apollo moon landings. Schuessler said:
“I went to a conference in Canada, in Toronto. I think it was [19]82. A guy came up to me and said ‘I’ve got this NASA photo. Do you recognize this?’  And it was an Apollo shot. And it was an official lithograph that they release. I’ve got hundreds of these lithographs.

I didn’t have that one. And they are all numbered. They have a photograph number on them and on the back of them is printed the information about what it is. This photograph had a UFO in the background.

So as soon as I got back to Houston I went to the photo lab and told them I’d like to look at the Apollo photos. And we’re old friends you know, so they said ‘sure here’s the rack of them.’

So I went down through the rack of the Apollo photos and the numbers sequentially. And I got to a series of numbers, that this one was in the middle of, and there were no photos. They were all missing. And I said ‘well where are these photos?’  He said, ‘well it’s like all these others, the film was bad.’ And I had seen the thing first hand with the NASA printing on it so I know it came out. But it was withdrawn.”  

http://www.google.co...fNrZIeiJwFYwMVg

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 18 November 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

UFO Hunters had a show about NASA's UFO cover up, with all the altered and airbrushed pictures, etc, etc.

You do realize that these shows are designed to sell advertisments to companies that just LOVE to have access to an audience that is self-selected to be non-critical-thinking, gullible and willing to swallow ANYTHING. What better targets for exploitative commercial messages?

[bee]

747400, on 18 November 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Dear god, please, yes, let's leave that in C & SS where it belongs.

ok....

except for one little (vertical) post...

JimOberg, on 18 November 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

The

boots

do

NOT

"meet

the

ground."

Slap yourself around the face three times,
get a grip, and come back to us a better person.

ok

so

he's

jumping.

I have

just done

a little

experiment

with a torch

and a pencil

and

I will

give

you

that

one



(but ONLY that one regarding the jumping astronaut)


.

[TheMacGuffin]

JimOberg, on 18 November 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

That's pretty obvious.

It's also pretty obvious that you're smart enough to be not really confident about ANY of the stories you've heard, as evidenced by how promptly you run away from every single story, when asked for real evidence or analysis, and throw up a blizzard of new stories, each one soon to be likewise abandoned the instant it's challenged.

Also very telling is the effort you make to keep your eyes and mind closed to contrary arguments, and how this betrays some lingering [and well deserved] doubt deep in your soul that you might be seduced by the arguments, if you ever actually read them or tried to understand them. A wise strategy, considering how flimsy all the evidence you've thrown up so far has turned out to be.

I haven't run away from anything.  There are a bunch of NASA UFO sightings I posted on here starting with Gemini IV, Gemini VII, Apollo 7, Apollo 14 and the Skylab pictures that have never been explained.

No, I'm not he one who is trying to cover up things.

I certainly don't claim that I can explain all these pictures and films, but I just keep posting them so that people can make up their own minds about what's going on.

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 18 November 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

John Schuessler worked at NASA for many years, and said that the first UFO reports he knew about were from Gemini IV.  He also said that some of the UFO pictures had been altered or just gone "missing."  With Gemini IV, for example, the UFO pictures that NASA released were not the ones that the astronauts took.

I know John well, we worked together at McDonnell Douglas during Mission Control support.

Too bad, to go along with this story, nobody actually has any photographs that allege to be the ones that this thrid-hand report CLAIMS Schuessler was talking about.

So all we have as another internet story about a guy who was told by a guy who was shown by a guy who had a neighbor who thought X, which i guess is proof that 'X' is real.

I've asked John directly for the photo numbers involved. He claims to have lost them.

By the way, the astronauts [plural] on Gemini-IV did not take UFO photos, ONE astronaut fired off several cameras at an object [the other was asleep], and later went through all the flight film and was satisfied the shots didn't come out. You misspoke.

[TheMacGuffin]

JimOberg, on 18 November 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

You do realize that these shows are designed to sell advertisments to companies that just LOVE to have access to an audience that is self-selected to be non-critical-thinking, gullible and willing to swallow ANYTHING. What better targets for exploitative commercial messages?

Just because they have witnesses who do not agree with the Oberg viewpoint does not make them nonsense or bogus.  You could say that about absolutely every TV program, that it's sponsors are trying to attract an audience.   They have been doing that since the days of Ralph and Alice Kramden on The Honeymooners.

[Archimedes]

bee, on 18 November 2012 - 08:26 PM, said:

Ie. where is the shadow from the astronaut? And if you use the magnifier on this one that mcrom posted

  http://www.hq.nasa.g...113-18339HR.jpg

the way the boots meet the ground isn't right...and again lack of shadow.

That astronaut is quite clearly not standing on the ground, but has been photographed after jumping up in the air.

The shadow is thus offset to the right.

Edited by Archimedes, 18 November 2012 - 09:27 PM.

[TheMacGuffin]

JimOberg, on 18 November 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I know John well, we worked together at McDonnell Douglas during Mission Control support.

Too bad, to go along with this story, nobody actually has any photographs that allege to be the ones that this thrid-hand report CLAIMS Schuessler was talking about.


By the way, the astronauts [plural] on Gemini-IV did not take UFO photos, ONE astronaut fired off several cameras at an object [the other was asleep], and later went through all the flight film and was satisfied the shots didn't come out. You misspoke.

Too bad that Schuessler also worked for NASA for decades and tells a very different story than you do.  He's not the only one, either, not by a long shot.

I already posted many things about Gemini IV, way, way back in the thread somewhere

[bee]

Archimedes, on 18 November 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

That astronaut is quite clearly not standing on the ground, but has been photographed after jumping up in the air.

The shadow is thus offset to the right.

yes...I got a bit carried away with that jumping astronaut....but there was no need for Jim Oberg to be so nasty about it....


.

[TheMacGuffin]

Dr. Brian O'Leary, another former astronaut, also said that there was a UFO cover up, and that astronauts who saw UFOs were told not to report them or discuss the subject.  

Now it's easy for Oberg to dismiss all these people as frauds, liars or crazies, but that's not at all how they seem to many of us on the other side of the question.

[TheMacGuffin]

This is what John Schuessler had to say about James Oberg in one interview concerning the Gemini IV UFO sightings:

"And other people put words in your mouth. Jim Oberg’s been really good at putting words in McDivitt’s mouth and even called him “a bleary-eyed astronaut” like he couldn’t see anything which was a bunch of baloney. He would not have been flying if he couldn’t see."


Schuessler also said:


"My work in the Gemini program is what really stimulated me into the UFO field. When they launched the first Gemini which was unmanned they were shown on radar two objects that followed Gemini on the first orbit. Our structural people were really upset because they thought maybe it had broken up or something. On the second orbit, they was gone. There was a lot of chatter about that, nothing official, but a lot of chatter, and I thought, that’s pretty interesting. What could that be?
Later on, a couple or three times flights where we actually had people up there, they reported seeing things.

McDivitt actually photographed something and later the photographs shown weren’t what he said he saw. Several others reported seeing things. They didn’t see “flying saucers,” they saw objects in space. But it was still enough – these are people, I worked very hard on life support systems to keep them alive and when they said something, I believed it. I didn’t question it at all. That stimulated me to go out and start looking.

It wasn’t long before – I met Walt Andrus by accident. (personal details). He got me to join APRO, for a short time I was a consultant with APRO, it wasn’t working out in the Midwest and he and I pushed for the Midwest support network and that’s how we became founding members of MUFON. Alan Utke was first international director."

McDivitt said he saw this red object that went across his viewscreen and he took pictures of it but the pictures he got were not of an oblong object like he saw but of something else. I think he felt he was deceived slightly, I can’t put words in his mouth …

http://www.google.co...TwRZv6FLm7mKYCA

[TheMacGuffin]

mcrom901, on 18 November 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

what do you think?

http://www.lpi.usra....?AS16-114-18422
http://www.lpi.usra....?AS16-114-18424

I'm not sure.  It could be a reflection but then it could be something else.  It's hard to tell.

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 18 November 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Just because they have witnesses who do not agree with the Oberg viewpoint does not make them nonsense or bogus.  You could say that about absolutely every TV program, that it's sponsors are trying to attract an audience.   They have been doing that since the days of Ralph and Alice Kramden on The Honeymooners.

You're deliberately avoiding the point I was making.

Different TV shows aim at different audiences. Some like high-end affluent viewers, and their ads are aimed at them. So like mass market audiences. Some aim at specialty markets -- sports, pets, gardening, cooking.

I suggest that UFO shows often aim at their own intended audience, one that gimmicky marketeers prefer. People who have minds so open, their brains have fallen out, and they'll buy anything. As you have.

[TheMacGuffin]

bee, on 18 November 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

ok....

except for one little (vertical) post...


(but ONLY that one regarding the jumping astronaut)


.

Oberg didn't like the UFO Hunters episode on NASA, did he?  They had Edgar Mitchell on there, as well as Donna Hare, John Schuessler, Jack Kasher and Brian O'Leary, who were all telling a very different story than his.  LOL  All of them say there's a cover up at NASA about UFOs and ETs.