177 replies to this topic

[cluey]

Eldorado, on 07 November 2010 - 09:52 PM, said:

I know this is slightly off-topic but it just crossed my mind and I want to post it before I forget.

Have you ever noticed that the majority of the most infamous and widely reported cases of missing-persons and unsolved murders in Western society have victims who have very distinct things in common?

They are young.
They are female.
They are white.
They are middle-class or rich.

I wonder why? Hmmm?  lol

not all..........don't forget...nieve,vulnurable and needy.......

[JonathanVonErich]

In the case of Cheri Jo I still think she knew her killer(s), or at least I'm sure the killer knew Cheri Jo, i'm sure her murder was not a case of "being at the wrong place, at the wrong time".

And Yesterday I Received an email by a Zodiac investigator where he told me that nothing special was planned on the 44 "anniversary" of Cheri Jo's murder, last October 30. I'm guessing the remaining family member of Cheri Jo just want to forget about the whole thing, even if i'm sure all of them had thoughts about Cheri.

[MoonBaby]

eeeeekkkk!!!!!

[JonathanVonErich]

MoonBaby, on 10 November 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

eeeeekkkk!!!!!

Um...What !?

[TRrrr]

There was some discussion of Cheri Jo Bates father and what happened to him.

Here is a biography of Joseph C Bates.

I believe he may still be alive or at least still was a couple of years ago. I think he is or was residing in Northern California.

Thought it was interesting ... FWIW.

[JonathanVonErich]

TRrrr, on 24 August 2011 - 01:00 AM, said:

There was some discussion of Cheri Jo Bates father and what happened to him.

Here is a biography of Joseph C Bates.

I believe he may still be alive or at least still was a couple of years ago. I think he is or was residing in Northern California.

Thought it was interesting ... FWIW.

Thanks for the link.

I actually want to start another tread about this case, this thread went in too many directions and we stepped over the line with this "psychic" investigation. I am very skeptical of psychic abilities of any kind and I prefer to work with facts and evidences, this thread is a freaking mess. I'll start a new one for the 45 anniversary of the murder, in october.

Edited by JonathanVonErich, 24 August 2011 - 01:39 AM.

[Eagleks]

The murder of Cheri Bates, has always bothered me.  I'm new here, but some friends and I were headed to Calif when the Zodiac items began being reported, and changed our minds because we were going to the very areas he was operating.

Cheri, is close to my age.  She reminds me of a girl I knew,  and ironically 7 friends were all killed in a car accident on Oct 1964.  So, I guess it all ties in with me, and I thought her case should have been solved. I also went to school, and got degrees in Criminology/Deviant behavior studies, sociology, and two in psychology. I then ended up working in the 'system', an ironically ... worked violent cases, murder and was good at catching or finding people that no-one could seem to find. I dealt with a lot of murderers, and psychopaths. Got to know a bit about them.

Soo.. in cases I've seen, this one connects with me and would like to see it come to some conclusion and justice of some sort for Cheri.     I just thought you all deserved to know my interest and introduce who I am.

Now... on Zodiackiller.com,  I know a couple of years back I read some items on their forum, and they had identified Patrica Hautz.  So you know, many HS yearbooks are on-line,  and there was a picture of her in the yearbook.  It hit me reading your posts,  then it's logical ... so would Stephanies and the others being discussed.

The thing that caught me about Patrica Hautz was,  she said she grew up with a boy and knew him well (same neighborhood) who got very mad at her,  and threatened her that she better watch it ... or she could end up like Cheri, and suggested he had something to do with it.  That, was the reason she mentioned in her letter,  "maybe knowing something about the boy that did it" would be interesting (in understanding the murder).  She seemed convinced, he did do it.  I know that his Identification has to be known by some of the people out there, it's just getting them to share that info.

Another point ;  I did not know until reading your past posts, that Barnett was called by her while at the basketball game and left.   When you mentioned this, my immediate thought was..... had he disabled her car, and she knew he knew VW's and might help her get it running, thus the reason for calling him ??  And he knew she would call him for help ?  Had he worked on her car for her in the past ?

Third, I understood his best friend also flunked the polygraph... was sure I saw that in one piece of info. It made me of Barnett's best friend, and whether  "HE" was the one who did it .. since his buddie was no longer dating her, and tried  to get her to go out with him ?  That wouldn't be anything new.  And did they flunk the polygraph because they knew more, but Police were asking the wrong questions to the wrong person ?   (have some minor experience related to polygraphs).  Did Barnett's best friend do it, and then told Barnett what happened, and Barnett went with him to look for the watch ?  Then, the friend tells the story that Barnett told him he had "snuffed Cheri", to get them looking at someone other than himself ?  Barnett, may have not wanted to give his buddy up to the Police.

I've always found it interesting that Barnett has lived and worked outside the US, since .... makes me wonder where his best friend is now.

Edited by Eagleks, 30 March 2012 - 07:43 AM.

[einfopedia]

its a very sad moment for me about the death of the Cherie's death so i think that due to the car accident he lost his life....

[JonathanVonErich]

Eagleks, on 30 March 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

The murder of Cheri Bates, has always bothered me.  I'm new here, but some friends and I were headed to Calif when the Zodiac items began being reported, and changed our minds because we were going to the very areas he was operating.

Cheri, is close to my age.  She reminds me of a girl I knew,  and ironically 7 friends were all killed in a car accident on Oct 1964.  So, I guess it all ties in with me, and I thought her case should have been solved. I also went to school, and got degrees in Criminology/Deviant behavior studies, sociology, and two in psychology. I then ended up working in the 'system', an ironically ... worked violent cases, murder and was good at catching or finding people that no-one could seem to find. I dealt with a lot of murderers, and psychopaths. Got to know a bit about them.

Soo.. in cases I've seen, this one connects with me and would like to see it come to some conclusion and justice of some sort for Cheri. I just thought you all deserved to know my interest and introduce who I am.

Now... on Zodiackiller.com,  I know a couple of years back I read some items on their forum, and they had identified Patrica Hautz.  So you know, many HS yearbooks are on-line,  and there was a picture of her in the yearbook.  It hit me reading your posts,  then it's logical ... so would Stephanies and the others being discussed.

The thing that caught me about Patrica Hautz was,  she said she grew up with a boy and knew him well (same neighborhood) who got very mad at her,  and threatened her that she better watch it ... or she could end up like Cheri, and suggested he had something to do with it.  That, was the reason she mentioned in her letter,  "maybe knowing something about the boy that did it" would be interesting (in understanding the murder).  She seemed convinced, he did do it.  I know that his Identification has to be known by some of the people out there, it's just getting them to share that info.

Another point ;  I did not know until reading your past posts, that Barnett was called by her while at the basketball game and left.   When you mentioned this, my immediate thought was..... had he disabled her car, and she knew he knew VW's and might help her get it running, thus the reason for calling him ??  And he knew she would call him for help ?  Had he worked on her car for her in the past ?

Third, I understood his best friend also flunked the polygraph... was sure I saw that in one piece of info. It made me of Barnett's best friend, and whether  "HE" was the one who did it .. since his buddie was no longer dating her, and tried  to get her to go out with him ?  That wouldn't be anything new.  And did they flunk the polygraph because they knew more, but Police were asking the wrong questions to the wrong person ?   (have some minor experience related to polygraphs).  Did Barnett's best friend do it, and then told Barnett what happened, and Barnett went with him to look for the watch ?  Then, the friend tells the story that Barnett told him he had "snuffed Cheri", to get them looking at someone other than himself ?  Barnett, may have not wanted to give his buddy up to the Police.

I've always found it interesting that Barnett has lived and worked outside the US, since .... makes me wonder where his best friend is now.

Sorry for this late reply, I was concentrating on my classes and decided not to login for the past 5 weeks.

Thanks for sharing, glad to see I'm not the only one caring about this fascinating, intriguing and very important case. I'm working on getting my degree in Criminology, very happy to have the chance to talk to somebody in the field, congrats for making it.

This case is the reason why I'm interested in True Crimes/Criminology. I discovered this case back in 2000, I was 15 years old and since then this case means a lot to me and I feel like I need to share this case with just about anybody I know (friends, family, fellow students, coworkers, etc.).

About Patricia Hautz: Thanks for sharing, I shared the info in another thread and I don't know if I shared the info about her letter in this thread. We know that Hautz wrote the letter, but now it seems logical to think that Hautz never knew the identity of the killer, that it was nothing more than a letter from a young student who asked the eternal questions: "What sort of person could kill and what would drive that person to do so?" Credible researcher Michael Butterfield found Hautz back in 2010, and he is now convinced that she didn't know the identity of the killer and that she wasn't talking about a particular individual. Here's the article about Butterfield's discovery: http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/blog/riverside-and-the-murder-of-cheri-jo-bates/
Then again some researchers are still debating whether or not miss Hautz really know the identity of the killer, and if she simply tried to avoid the controversy surrounding the letter. Possible, but I feel like she know nothing more than we do.

"Barnett" is still the best suspect in the case. Lot of interesting facts are linking "Barnett" to this case. http://www.zodiackil...m/BatesDNA.html

Lot of very interesting links between him and the murder, but what's bothering me is that DNA testing revealed that the hair found on Cheri Jo's body were not "Barnett"'s. Maybe somebody helped him and the hair belonged to the accomplice, it's possible, but right now we don't have something solid against him, just a series of very interesting circumstancial evidences.

You are right about him living in another Country. Last we know he was living in Guam, and interestingly enough the wife of one of his former classmates, who was visiting the country years ago, was brutally murdered while she was riding her bike alone one night. I don't have much detail right now, but I'm trying to find more.

Is "Barnett" the man who killed Cheri Jo ?? There's a very good possibility that he is, however we need more solid evidences to be sure.

[jeckyl51]

It would be interesting to know what the police know.  Apparently, Barnett is not the killer since the DNA and the jailhouse confession by one of his friends can be discounted.  It appears that Barnett is just convienent way for the police to keep the real suspect unaware of case against him.  The police have her diary and as they insist there is no information that would lead them to a suspect.  If that is true, why is the diary still not published?  The answer is that the case is still open, but what could the non release possibly mean to the case unless there is in fact information about a suspect that could give this suspect information that he could use to change or modify his story, if the prosecutor would ever have enough evidence to persue prosecution.  The speculation involving Zodiac would seem to be just that, speculation.  The one good outcome is that Cheri would have probably been lost to history without the speculation.  I think the key to this case lies in her friends.  It has always been thought, that Cheri knew her assailant, but the fact that her keys were in the ignition and her books were on the car would seem to discount this  conjecture.  That is unless the killer, who she knew, put these items back in the car to make it look like she was abducted.  That brings me back to the idea that the police in fact have a good suspect but lack evidence.  So back to the question.  Who were Cheri's close friends?  I believe Stephanie and Darlene are mentioned somewhere in the literature.  They would have information that they would possibly solve the case or at least lead the case to some sort of conclusion.  The killer is undoubtedly in his 60's, if there is to be any resolution, more information is needed.   Since the Patricia Hautz lead is apparently solved, the friends need to come forward with information, anything even the most innoculous information maybe of assistance.  So who are the friends of Cheri?

[JonathanVonErich]

Thanks for sharing, Jeckyl, very interesting.

To my knowledge Barnett is still the most interesting suspect in the case, and authorities never officially ruled him out as a suspect. Am I convinced that Barnett killed Cheri Jo ?? Not at all, but I'm not ready to rule Barnett out, that's for sure. True, Barnett's DNA did not match what was recovered from Cheri Jo's hand, but I think he should still be considered a suspect in the case.

I've always asked myself if indeed the answer, the name of the killer is written in the diary. I've always felt that the reason why the diary was never published is because it must be full of important information about one or many suspects. I always had the feeling that Cheri Jo knew her killer and that the killer "staged" the crime scene ( put her books in her car, keys in her car ). I could be wrong of course, but I think she knew her killer and trusted him enough to follow him to his car. If she knew her killer then maybe his name is somewhere in her diary. Maybe.

I agree with you, if this case wouldn't have been linked to the Zodiac case then it would have been forgotten, sadly. I am convinced that Zodiac was not the killer of Cheri Jo, and in a way I wish that the case would no longer be associated with Zodiac, but without the link to the Zodiac case this important and fascinating would have been forgotten and that would have been another injustice to Cheri Jo and her family. I have researched this case since 2000, and since then I've shared the infos of this case to my friends, fellow students ( I study Criminology at Laval ), family members, just about anybody I know. I am probably one of the few guy in the Province of Quebec who cares about this case, and I really want to find the truth. This case means more to me than finding the truth in the Zodiac case, the murder of Cheri Jo is the first case that really caught my attention, and I want to solve it.

About her friends: We know that Cheri Jo had a friend named Stephanie, true, and a friend named Donna. An investigator told Tom Voigt that Barnett was dating Donna at the time of the murder. There's also a strong possibility that Cheri Jo and Donna spoke on the phone on the day of the murder. Sadly we don't have much information about these two women. I've tried numerous time to locate both Stephanie and Donna, but without a last name it's an impossible task. So there's Stephanie, Donna but I don't remember Cheri Jo having a friend named Darlene. You're not talking about Darlene Ferrin, right ?? Because they didn't knew each other.

For years I've tried to contact the brother of Cheri Jo, but sadly I was never able to talk to him or contact him. I live in Canada so it's difficult for me to interview somebody living in the United States, but I've reallly tried. I think Tom Voigt once told me that Cheri's brother just doesn't want to talk about it anymore. I can understand, it must be very difficult to speak about the murder of a sister. I don't think he could have shared information that might have been important to the case, but it would be very interesting to talk about Cheri Jo with him. The brother could ask the authorities for a copy of the diary, I think he should do it.

[jeckyl51]

Well, here is an interesting tidbit, could mean something or not.  I am sure you are familiar with Sandy Betts.  She has an interesting story and has mentioned a R. Hernendez.  Now, I have heard that the killer follows posts on related sites.  Could be speculation or paranoia, whatever the case there is a R. Hernandez living in Riverside who is a year younger than Cheri.  Supposedly the person who follows posts goes by the screen name of '12th house', interestingly the RH lives on 12th street.  RH is also the signature of the poem on the desk at RCC.  I am assuming that RH is not Barnett but could possibly be the suspect that the police have in mind.  I will look for him in the 966 yearbook and see if there can be any connection.  BTW I was incorrect donna was the friend.  i could be that we are complicating this case like some have done in the past.  We all assume that these killers are masterminds but in reality make mistakes that are overlooked, look at BTK, he should have been caught years before he was.  I think that Occams Razor is correct, we need to look closely and fight the urge to complicate the issues.  Cheri's killer has been very lucky and probably thinks he will never be caught, I believe he is livng in the area and the only thing that will bring him to justice is a relentless pursuit of the evidence.  That is why I think it is so important talk to her friends they must know something.

[JonathanVonErich]

By the way welcome to UM Jeckyl, it's always a pleasure to meet people who are interested in this case.

Yes, I know Sandy, back in 2002-2003 we wrote each other many emails, she's a very interesting lady. I am skeptical of some of the things she said over the years, but I think she's honest. I think the story about the killer "following posts on related sites" is based on nothing more than speculation and paranoia. Nothing more. We don't know the identity of the killer, yet we have to believe that he follows posts related to the case !? I don't believe it, or at least I need solid evidence to believe it, and there's no evidence that this is true. The Hernandez story is interesting, true, but it's clearly based on nothing more than speculation, paranoia and wishful thinking.

I don't think we are complicating this case, I think it's important to look at every possibilities. This case has been cold for more than 40 years, therefore it's important to look at every theories and to keep an open mind.

I never thought that the killer of Cheri Jo ( or any killer ) was a mastermind. Serial killers are mastermind only in their own mind. Whoever killed Cheri Jo had a plan, a well prepared plan in my opinion ( something he thought about for days, maybe weeks or months ), he knew what he was doing and was organized, but this doesn't make him a mastermind. After all, it seems like he left his DNA at the scene, right ??

I agree about the importance of talking to Cheri's friends, but like I said earlier it's an almost impossible task to do. We know nothing about them, or at least what we know is sketchy. We don't even know if they are still alive, and even if they are alive we don't know if they could help with the investigation. Because they were friends with Cheri doesn't mean that they know everything about her and that they can help with the case. If they knew something I'm sure they shared the info with the authorities back then. Still, I agree with you that it would be great to find them and to interview them, after all that's what I've tried to do years ago. But they're so very little information about both women that I doubt very seriously that we can find them. Sadly.

[Granny B]

Hello, I am obviously new to this board and posting on the internet about cold cases.  However, I have long had a passion for researching cold cases on a strictly amateur level.  I have very little to go on, other than what all of you have already seen, so I have little to nothing new to add to the conversation.  But, I like the way you treat all posters in a respectful manner.  Thank you for that, as it seems that belittling people is the name of the game on other internet boards.

I was especially interested in Puri's discussion of there being two people involved in Cheri Jo Bates's murder.  I have come to believe that there were at least two people involved in the Zodiac killings.  Not in the actual killings, mind you.  But rather, one would kill.  And one wrote letters.  I have some other ideas along this line, but back to the topic of the thread.

I feel certain that Cheri Jo knew her killer(s).  It does not seem far-fetched to think that a girl might be involved, as women can be viciously jealous. What bothers me about this case is that I heard that a handwriting expert matched the samples from this case to those of Zodiac.  Do I have misinformation on this issue?

Thank you for keeping the search for justice in this case alive.

[regi]

I wonder if it's been reported how the car was disabled. I want to be sure that it was something determined to be deliberate.
If so, it's clearly apparent that the perp planned the crime, at least from about the time Cheri arrived at the library.
I wonder about the library employees and patrons because the perp seemed to somehow know that Cheri was there.
I think this type of crime (strangling and stabbing with no sexual assault/ robbery) is motivated by anger, and usually indicates a personal conflict, so it appears that the perp likely knew/knew about her.

The letter from Patricia Hautz is interesting. It seems to reflect frustration, and I think that that frustration could have existed for one of two reasons. 1) she was understandably frustrated at the lack of progress in the case, or 2) she was frustrated because she'd already offered what she considered valuable information to the police that appeared to her as disregarded.
I think it was more likely #1.
The part "Are we laying the blueprint for another killer?" doesn't sound like she's referring to any one specific person ("another" killer) but sounds most like there might have been something about the article she referenced that she didn't like.
(I haven't read the article she referenced, but I'd be helpful in putting her letter in proper perspective.)

Re: the DNA from the 2 or three hairs, unless those were secondary transfer from one of the responders present on the scene- which I highly doubt, then Barnett definitely should be ruled out.
There's no evidence of an accomplice (DNA from only one individual) and also,  this doesn't appear to be the type of crime committed by more than one perp.