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Congress very low in Americans' esteem


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#16    Hasina

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 05:55 PM

The GOP is playing politics just as stupidly as the Democrats. They're no better.

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#17    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:03 PM

View PostHasina, on 11 January 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

The GOP is playing politics just as stupidly as the Democrats. They're no better.
I agree with that.  Politics will be politics.  But the Conservative and Libertarian members of the GOP are established on a different foundation than the Socialists.

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#18    Hasina

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:30 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 11 January 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:


I agree with that.  Politics will be politics.  But the Conservative and Libertarian members of the GOP are established on a different foundation than the Socialists.
Yeah, and it's still a horribly cracked and rotted foundation that panders to their demographic instead of actually doing what works.

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#19    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostHasina, on 11 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Yeah, and it's still a horribly cracked and rotted foundation that panders to their demographic instead of actually doing what works.
So youíre saying that the Constitution doesnít work?  Did it ever?

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#20    Hasina

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:37 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 11 January 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:


So youíre saying that the Constitution doesnít work?  Did it ever?
The Constitution works, but if you think the anti-abortion, teach creationism in classrooms, anti-gay marriage right is actually going to protect it, well, sadly they've already ignored the First Amendment.

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#21    and then

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

My fav:  Colonoscopies are not a terribly pleasant experience but at least they have some redeeming value that most voters aren't seeing in Congress: Colonoscopies 58 Congress 31
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#22    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostHasina, on 11 January 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

The Constitution works, but if you think the anti-abortion, teach creationism in classrooms, anti-gay marriage right is actually going to protect it, well, sadly they've already ignored the First Amendment.
Anti-abortion, creationism only, anti-gay stuff is individual freedom which is protected by the Constitution.  The foundation of Conservatives and Libertarians is the Constitution.  This is the only way that Socialists can attack the GOP.  A Conservative/Libertarian will acknowledge these things as protected under the 1st Amendment.  A Socialist would impose that on us.  Thatís the basic difference in each foundation.

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#23    Hasina

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 11 January 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:


Anti-abortion, creationism only, anti-gay stuff is individual freedom which is protected by the Constitution.  The foundation of Conservatives and Libertarians is the Constitution.  This is the only way that Socialists can attack the GOP.  A Conservative/Libertarian will acknowledge these things as protected under the 1st Amendment.  A Socialist would impose that on us.  Thatís the basic difference in each foundation.
No. Forcing every woman to never have an abortion (even with my qualifier, only in cases of rape, incest and the mother's life isn't good enough), putting a well known fairy tale into a factual teaching setting, and preventing a certain group to enjoy the rights of others just because of their sexuality is not individual freedom, is forceful imposition on everyone.

You can tell your kids not to have to have an abortion, you can teach your kids creationism or take them to church, you don't have to get gay married.

But prevent a woman from getting one cause you think it's wrong? Teaching a religious view in public school paid for by tax dollars? Disallowing a group a right because of what they do behind closed doors? That's being forceful.

Edited by Hasina, 11 January 2013 - 08:21 PM.

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#24    The Unseen

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

Duh,They havent been in our good graces in about 100 years,I dont think they were ever liked,I Hate the lazy bums.


#25    RavenHawk

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:52 PM

View PostHasina, on 11 January 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

No. Forcing every woman to never have an abortion (even with my qualifier, only in cases of rape, incest and the mother's life isn't good enough), putting a well known fairy tale into a factual teaching setting, and preventing a certain group to enjoy the rights of others just because of their sexuality is not individual freedom, is forceful imposition on everyone.

You can tell your kids not to have to have an abortion, you can teach your kids creationism or take them to church, you don't have to get gay married.

But prevent a woman from getting one cause you think it's wrong? Teaching a religious view in public school paid for by tax dollars? Disallowing a group a right because of what they do behind closed doors? That's being forceful.
Iíve been trying to stay focused on two points here and this keeps going way off topic.  Create a new thread and I will respond to this (you may be surprised, maybe not?), otherwise, what Iím trying to say is that Congress is made up of different ideological groups and as long as this Administration can keep it confused, he can continue to attack the GOP and there are enough people still quaffing the koolaid.  If he can weaken the whole, he can weaken the GOP.  The Socialists are willing cannon fodder.  Theyíll fall on their sword en mass for their leader.  Down in the trenches, a huge battle is raging on.  The future of our nation is in the balance.  The MSM will do whatever it takes to keep the people asleep of the facts.

Itís amazing that when we need to deal with runaway spending and a spiraling debt, the Administration will attack the GOP for being the party of ďNOĒ, when that is their job and he goes off having Uncle Joe make a big show of gun control.  Itís the same show we saw with the first fiscal cliff.  Tell me, what of anything of value has the President really done?  In my book this guy is worse than Carter.

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#26    Hasina

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:54 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 11 January 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

I've been trying to stay focused on two points here and this keeps going way off topic.  Create a new thread and I will respond to this (you may be surprised, maybe not?), otherwise, what I'm trying to say is that Congress is made up of different ideological groups and as long as this Administration can keep it confused, he can continue to attack the GOP and there are enough people still quaffing the koolaid.  If he can weaken the whole, he can weaken the GOP.  The Socialists are willing cannon fodder.  They'll fall on their sword en mass for their leader.  Down in the trenches, a huge battle is raging on.  The future of our nation is in the balance.  The MSM will do whatever it takes to keep the people asleep of the facts.

It's amazing that when we need to deal with runaway spending and a spiraling debt, the Administration will attack the GOP for being the party of "NO", when that is their job and he goes off having Uncle Joe make a big show of gun control.  It's the same show we saw with the first fiscal cliff.  Tell me, what of anything of value has the President really done?  In my book this guy is worse than Carter.
Understood, the GOP's not in the wrong in your view, it's all the other sides fault, you're being biased. I haven't pointed a finger at any one group, I'm trying to expand to you that it's just as much the GOP's fault as anyone else's.

The President is one man, anyone who thinks that he has some special power (other then executive orders which must be reviewed in three months time) is being silly. Checks and balances exist, this is why it takes forever to actually get things done.

Edited by Hasina, 11 January 2013 - 08:59 PM.

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#27    Corp

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 11 January 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

That alone will not work.  We need to continue to boot the incumbent out over and over again until it no longer becomes appealing to stay as a politician.  A third party won't work.  Firstly, it will become just as corrupt as the other two.  

Then you'll say, oh but we need a fourth party (etc., etc.), then no party will ever win the majority so then, they'll have to form coalitions and coalitions do not represent the people.  

And coalitions imply professional politicians otherwise coalitions don't hold together.  And nothing will change until we establish what the foundational ideology this nation will follow.  Either the dreams of this President's father or the dreams of our Founding Fathers?  Your choice.

The trouble with these politicians is because we do not follow our foundational beliefs in the first place.  Many in the GOP House are trying.

What if the incumbent does a good job? What if the person they're running against is clearly worst? Would you still give the incumbent the boot? Plus I would think having Congress not needing to answer to the public would only make things worst. Why bother being honest and working hard if you're just going to get fired at the end of your term? While career politicans are a problem making Congress a revolving door isn't much of a solution.

And dreams change based on social changes. The dreams of a President's father would be much more appealing that some of the dreams of the Founding Fathers. Can they provide guidance and some solid examples to follow, yes. Should that dream be followed to the letter? Not in this century.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse...A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

#28    questionmark

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostCorp, on 11 January 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

What if the incumbent does a good job? What if the person they're running against is clearly worst? Would you still give the incumbent the boot? Plus I would think having Congress not needing to answer to the public would only make things worst. Why bother being honest and working hard if you're just going to get fired at the end of your term? While career politicans are a problem making Congress a revolving door isn't much of a solution.

And dreams change based on social changes. The dreams of a President's father would be much more appealing that some of the dreams of the Founding Fathers. Can they provide guidance and some solid examples to follow, yes. Should that dream be followed to the letter? Not in this century.

The problem is systemic, and is little changed by exchanging this or that Congressperson. A "good representative" is the one who brings the pork home to his constituency, but the problem why Congress is inefficient and sometimes on the verge of corrupt is because of the pork.

People have to realize that it is not the person who is the good or the bad but their own expectations are creating the problem. Which sums up to: Everybody likes the fruits of the corruption of the system but hates the system for being corrupt.

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#29    AsteroidX

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

I dont belive the Constitutional Republic is still left. Perhaps among the people and I like what you suggest as the rising pheonix that we pull we pull it from the ashes of its own death. But the government is fighting withing itself and the Constitutional Republic is dead to them. Big donations and Big Corp has seen to it.


#30    AsteroidX

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:03 PM

My personal assessment is the House of Representatives is the only branch that has kept its commitment to America but I do believe they sold out at the last minute fiscal vote. Im not certain why.





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