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The United Nations Wants Your Guns America

gun control un united nations arms trade treaty arms treaty

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277 replies to this topic

#91    preacherman76

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:06 PM

View PostZaraKitty, on 17 July 2012 - 06:52 AM, said:

Why does anyone need a gun? If people need to be armed, that says a terrible deal about the state of your living conditions.

It doesnt say anything for the state of my living conditions. Nor does it for the state of anyone  I know. Though I would have less free meat in the ice box.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#92    preacherman76

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostZaraKitty, on 17 July 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

And now you're in trillions (more then that) of dollars in debt to china. They OWN you, as if they're going to let anyone invade you.

No one is going to invade us cause thier country would be ashes within one hour.

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#93    preacherman76

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:18 PM

View PostArbenol68, on 17 July 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

If you look at crime stats they usually speak about homicides per 100,000 of population. It's the murder rate - nothing to do with actual numbers of events.

So, if the population of USA is 300million and there is a murder rate of 8 per 100 000. This translates to approx. 24,000 murders.
UK population 60 million and murder rate about 2 per 100,000 - 1200 murders.

The numbers themselves are meaningless because populations differ. That's why the rate of crime is the only reliable measure. And the stats clearly state you're 4 times more likely to be murdered in the US than you are in the UK. Not obviously safer then.

The majority of our murders happen in places where gun restrictions are highest.

I also remember a few years ago where the UK was cooking thier books on how many murders they actualy had to try and sell to the world that gun bans save lives. But they had alot more murder then they let on.

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#94    FLOMBIE

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:26 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 17 July 2012 - 12:18 PM, said:

The majority of our murders happen in places where gun restrictions are highest.

But is the murder rate high because gun restriction is high, or is a high gun restriction installed because of the high murder rate? I suspect the latter.

You can take any European country, and you will see that the murder rate, especially the gun murder rate, are a lot lower that the US'. Besides, your gun clubs like the NRA or others are twisting lots of information, as seen on this graph posted by Michelle.


#95    preacherman76

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 12:34 PM

View PostJGirl, on 16 July 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

i find it incredibly stupid how americans will jump on the 'defend my home and family' bandwagon when justifying why they need a firearm.
seems to me that the firearms are causing more trouble than the crimes that they are supposed to defend against.
how many of your children have to die accidentally? how many of your teens are going to murder someone or themselves? how many stolen or lost guns will turn up in the hands of criminals? how many americans wake up every day willing to murder in the name of personal safety?
if you look at other countries that aren't so hell bent on owning guns you will notice that they don't have the problems that americans think they will have if they didn't.
here in canada we don't have guns in every hand and we also don't have people breaking into our homes and murdering us. lucky us eh?

Maybe you should spend less time worring about us dumb Americans, and subjects here that you obviously have no clue about, and worry more about what goes on in your back yard. Cause frankly the guns we own here in America are none of your business. Then again Im talking to a person who lives in a country where you can be put in a cage for talking about things your government doesnt find political correct.

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#96    Yes_Man

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

View PostZaraKitty, on 17 July 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

You ignored the rest of my argument.
Drugs get trafficked from brazil/columbia I meant.Prime location for crime.
I know  but I am referring that the size of the country does not matter


#97    preacherman76

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 01:41 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 17 July 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

But is the murder rate high because gun restriction is high, or is a high gun restriction installed because of the high murder rate? I suspect the latter.

You can take any European country, and you will see that the murder rate, especially the gun murder rate, are a lot lower that the US'. Besides, your gun clubs like the NRA or others are twisting lots of information, as seen on this graph posted by Michelle.

Washington DC became the murder capital of America after the ban was set in place. Basicaly what happened is, law abiding folks turned in thier guns, and the criminals didnt. Crime and murder went through the roof. Our murder rate in America is complicated and has several factors as to why. A large % is from people who arent here legaly, and/or dont own guns legaly. Plus we have over 4 million kids on mind altering drugs whos side effects include things like "thoughts of suicide". The columbine kids were on those types of drugs.

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#98    FLOMBIE

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:18 PM

Alright. But if everybody would be carrying a gun, those problems would still remain unsolved, and nobody would be safer. The problem is not legal or illegal gun ownership. It is also interesting to see where illegal guns come from; often from various legal sources.

Edit: Murder rate is a lot lower in Europe, where gun ownership is generally illegal (with exceptions), than in the US, where it is legal in most places. That is a fact that should started to get recognised in this thread. Legal gun ownership does not make the world a safer place.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 17 July 2012 - 02:21 PM.


#99    Kriegermonch

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 02:56 PM

According to Criminal Victimization in Seventeen Industrialized Countries, Dutch Ministry of Justice, 2001.

Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime. Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries.


Also, comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there.

88



Edited by Pauly Dangerously, 17 July 2012 - 03:00 PM.


#100    Kriegermonch

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 03:07 PM

Just to make another point, in Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000).

Source: Juristat: Crime Statistics in Canada, 2004 and FBI Uniform Crime Statistics online.


#101    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

Thats quite enough of all the ethnocentric slurs...from everyone. If this threads continues like this it will be closed.


View Postpreacherman76, on 17 July 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Then again Im talking to a person who lives in a country where you can be put in a cage for talking about things your government doesnt find political correct.

Preacherman, I live in Canada and don't have a clue as to what you are talking about? Please clarify

One does not simply walk into Mordor.

#102    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:14 PM

View PostPauly Dangerously, on 17 July 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Just to make another point, in Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000).

Source: Juristat: Crime Statistics in Canada, 2004 and FBI Uniform Crime Statistics online.

Canadians are no better and no worse.

This is the news that I woke up to today

Toronto shooting leaves 2 dead, 21 injured - Toronto - CBC News

One does not simply walk into Mordor.

#103    Kriegermonch

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:41 PM

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 17 July 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Canadians are no better and no worse.

This is the news that I woke up to today

Toronto shooting leaves 2 dead, 21 injured - Toronto - CBC News

Exactly my point. There is violence everywhere. Different types, different motivating factors, but criminals will be criminals regardless of locale. All this nationalism is unneccessary. We all agree that criminals are the problem, correct?

The point being, that a move to ban/confiscate/regulate firearms is a futile measure and ultimately has no effect on violent crime. Therefore this measure by the UN would be a costly and time consuming failure. Therefore it should be dismissed.


Edited to correct atrocious grammar.

Edited by Pauly Dangerously, 17 July 2012 - 05:08 PM.


#104    Michelle

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:58 PM

View PostDaughter of the Nine Moons, on 17 July 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Canadians are no better and no worse.

This is the news that I woke up to today

Toronto shooting leaves 2 dead, 21 injured - Toronto - CBC News

Tell me the media doesn't have an agenda. If that had happened in the US it would be all over the news as an example of our "gun culture". This tragedy is barely a blip in national news. *sigh*

People say Americans think the wold revolves around them, but it seems to me it is the other way around. We are under a microscope at all times and nobody enjoys the scrutiny we have to succumb to.


#105    Kriegermonch

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:04 PM

View PostMichelle, on 17 July 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Tell me the media doesn't have an agenda. If that had happened in the US it would be all over the news as an example of our "gun culture". This tragedy is barely a blip in national news. *sigh*

People say Americans think the wold revolves around them, but it seems to me it is the other way around. We are under a microscope at all times and nobody enjoys the scrutiny we have to succumb to.

To be fair, we have done a pretty good job of thrusting ourselves onto the world stage. Scrutiny is to be expected.





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