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The 100-Year Starship (100YSS)


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#1    topsecretresearch

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:04 AM

Is a Pentagon plan for a spaceship travel outside our solar system a crackpot idea, or a visionary blueprint for reaching the stars?

When Jack Sarfatti was 13 years old, he began receiving phone calls from a strange metallic voice that told him he would someday become part of an elite group of scientists exploring uncharted territory. Those calls, which he believes may have come from a computer on a spacecraft, proved a seminal influence on his life and led him to pursue a career that combined mainstream physics with an enduring interest in UFOs and the far-out reaches of science.
For those who might dismiss Sarfatti as a crank, he is quick to point out that he is not interested in debating the reality of little green men, but rather whether the existence of UFOs might prove that the technology required for interstellar travel is possible. “It’s the physics that interests me,” says Sarfatti, who received his PhD in the subject from the University of California.

That experience, and interest, also helped make Sarfatti one of the key figures invited last year to help formulate an unusual government programme: the 100-Year Starship (100YSS).

While the US government’s manned space programmes appear stuck in Earth’s orbit, this audacious project aims to kickstart efforts towards interstellar space travel – journeys over vast distances to stars outside of our solar system. It is driven by ideas that range from ensuring the survival of the human species and searching for intelligent alien life to the desire to overhaul space propulsion and just pure academic endeavor. Science fiction favourites from wormholes and warp drives to light speed and lasers are all on the table, meaning parts of the project can end up sounding like the wish list for an episode of Star Trek.

Stellar pipedream?

But the 100YSS is not a fringe activity started by a bunch of dreamers. It has the backing of two high-profile US agencies – the space agencyNasa and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa), the US military agency that helped create the internet and satellite-based navigation. Darpa has a track record for these kinds of seemingly impossible technologies: in recent years it has sponsored attempts to develop a hypersonic aircraft and driverless cars.

But even those might pale next to the goal of sending a manned spaceship to the stars. And the agency’s willingness to embrace unconventional ideas and people – like Sarfatti – means the project divides opinion. For its backers it is a visionary blueprint for interstellar travel. For the naysayers, it is a crackpot idea with no hope of even getting off the ground.

For those who might consider a starship something of a pipedream,David Neyland, the head of the Darpa office in charge of the 100YSS, points to the agency’s ability to spur innovation in unexpected areas, an ability that has proven critical to its success.The iPhone in your pocket is powered by cellular radio technology that came out of communications research Darpa did back in the 70s and 80s,” says Neyland. “So it is that unintended consequence of technology research that we are hoping to inspire.”

Of course, when it comes to spaceships, we have been here before. Serious study of interstellar travel has long attracted a coterie of dedicated followers spanning mainstream science and the outer fringes.Wernher von Braun, the famous rocket scientist, justified his work on military weapons as a way to further engineering that would lead mankind to space. “I aim at the stars, but sometimes I hit London,” became a satirical jab at von Braun, whose dreams of travel to Mars led him to build the V2 rockets for Nazi Germany that rained down on England during World War II.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/f...-for-a-starship



#2    psyche101

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:21 AM

They have been talking about this for a couple of years. Not sure of Jacks role, a year ago, Mae Jemison was selected to head up the project. Ahh well, finally I have that hottie I requested huh! It's not all bad!




Quote

The Pentagon's premiere research agency has chosen a former astronaut to lead a foundation that is designed to take humanity to the stars.
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) and Nasa are sponsoring the project, known as the 100-Year Starship.
Mae Jemison, the first African-American woman to go into space, was notified last week that she had won, according to a copy of a Darpa letter obtained by the BBC.
Since leaving Nasa, Jemison has been involved in science education programmes, and is known as a space travel enthusiast and long-time Star Trek fan.
Her organisation, the Dorothy Jemison Foundation for Excellence, is partnered on the Darpa project with Icarus Interstellar, a non-profit organisation that is dedicated to interstellar travel, and the Foundation for Enterprise Development.


Posted Image

Mae Jemison worked on a Spacelab mission


Since it was first announced last year, the 100-Year Starship project has been met with trepidation by some, and excitement by many.
With Nasa scaling back its manned space programmes, the idea of a manned trip to the stars, which is well beyond any current technology, may sound audacious.
But the goal is not to have the government fund the actual building of spacecraft destined for the stars, but rather to create a foundation that can last 100 years in order to help foster the research needed for interstellar travel.
The money for the winning team, $500,000, is small, but is designed to help jumpstart the effort. According to a copy of the notification letter, Jemison's proposal was titled: "An Inclusive Audacious Journey Transforms Life Here on Earth & Beyond".
A spokesman for Darpa declined to comment on the award, which has not been publicly announced.




LINK

They always talk about Interstellar travel, but they never do it. Maybe we will have to rely on private enterprise?

Edited by psyche101, 20 January 2013 - 06:24 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#3    topsecretresearch

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

It's cool how Jack Sarfatti was inspired by UFOs. However the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa), is not cool.
America's cover-up = bad people that's not doing the world any favors.

Wernher von Braun, the famous rocket scientist, justified his work on military weapons as a way to further engineering that would lead mankind to space. “I aim at the stars, but sometimes I hit London,” became a satirical jab at von Braun, whose dreams of travel to Mars led him to build the V2 rockets for Nazi Germany that rained down on England during World War II.

I can see this statement rubbing Brits the wrong way. Bunch of Nazi's.


#4    psyche101

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:26 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 20 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

It's cool how Jack Sarfatti was inspired by UFOs.

The link seems to indicate that he was more influenced by Sci Fi to be frank.

Mae Jemison is better, nice to look at ;)

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 20 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:


Says you. I beg to differ.

LINK - Mach 20 and beyond? DARPA program to develop hypersonic flight

That is cool. Super cool.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 20 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

America's cover-up = bad people that's not doing the world any favors.

About ET? Nah. Does not make sense on a Global scale. China, The Middle East, Vietnam, heck, many many countries oppose the US and their ideals, and have more than enough capability to know if the US is indeed receiving Interstellar visitors. Same with the millions of amateur astronomers training their equipment on the sky every night. They are not going to be keeping secrets for the US.
The entire UN cannot even ground the Sea Shepard, and you think the US can hide something like this? I do not think so.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 20 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Wernher von Braun, the famous rocket scientist, justified his work on military weapons as a way to further engineering that would lead mankind to space. “I aim at the stars, but sometimes I hit London,” became a satirical jab at von Braun, whose dreams of travel to Mars led him to build the V2 rockets for Nazi Germany that rained down on England during World War II.

I can see this statement rubbing Brits the wrong way. Bunch of Nazi's.

Yes, so can I however, seeing as it is up there, notice the use of the word Mars. The original idea was that Aliens came from Mars. So when you tell me he knew about Aliens Spaceships, remember, he commonly indicated that they were filled with Martians.

Edited by psyche101, 21 January 2013 - 01:34 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#5    topsecretresearch

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 10:34 AM

Hypersonic Flight is highly primitive and unnecessary. Read Flying Saucers and Science by Stanton Friedman.

I believe most countries expecially the super powers are on the same page regarding ET's and the implications of disclosure. I believe contrary to people's strong nationalistic ideals that is steeped in tradition we are all the same people. Zbigniew Brzezinski and many politcal leaders know that ET or some external threat can bring the world together as one. We have that primate instinct to for tribal warfare amongst tribes.

One danger with secrecy in a capatalist system is technology such as ET tech tends to be supressed in a beurocracy of secrey or exploited at the gain of defense contractors or corporate interest.

In my opinion it is better to have a transparent system where there is overt reguation and control of both technology and resources instead of covert manipulation through contrived conflict and propaganda (fear mongering, creating threats). People should also have a right to knowledge in terms of other life that may exist in the Universe, who we are as a species and the true nature of life. Not secret knowledge only some have and everybody else is a pawn, sheep, or slave.

Edited by topsecretresearch, 21 January 2013 - 10:37 AM.


#6    topsecretresearch

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

PSEUDOSCIENCE IN NAZILAND
BY WILLY LEY
Illustrated by Tiedeman
(Engl. Original Text und dt. Übersetzung)

Posted Image

The Nazis did accomplish a remarkable series of scientific advances. Willy Ley explains, in part, how come. Nazi research science to have been strictly on the shotgun technique; if you shoot enough holes in the unknown, something's apt to drop in your lap. And the Nazis tried everything—anything, no matter how wild!

When things get so tough that there seems to be no way out, the Russian embraces the vodka bottle, the Frenchman a woman and the American the Bible.

The German tends to resort to magic, to some nonsensical belief which he tries to validate by way of hysterics and physical force. Not every German, of course. Not even a majority, but it seems to me that the percentage of people so inclined is higher in Germany than in other countries. It was the willingness of a noticeable proportion of the Germans to rate rhetoric above research. and intuition above knowledge, that brought to power a political party which was frankly and loudly anti-intellectual. The Nazis not only burned books they disliked, they also classified theoretical physicists with "Jews and Marxists."

Small wonder the pseudoscientists experienced a heyday under such a regime — but it would be a mistake to believe that these pseudosciences which l am going to describe, originated with the Nazis. They existed, and to some extent even flourished, before Hitler. But then they were hemmed in by the authority of the scientists—after Hitler had become Führer it was almost the other way round.

When speaking about German pseudoscience I am not thinking so much of the usual run of astrologers, fortune tellers, theosophers and devotees to occultism. Of course there was a theosophical society—or rather a few branches hurling noncompliments at one another—there were astrological magazines and presumably astrological societies. There were struggling clairvoyants, mostly struggling among themselves by way of the printed word and resulting lawsuits—I won't judge, but I should think that they should have known the outcome — and there was an occultistic magazine vainly trying to make peace and "advance the cause."

Representatives of all these groups existed in Germany before World War I and began to flourish during World War I. They kept flourishing during the inflationary period, received a slight setback during the few years of mild prosperity in the Twenties, and flourished again dur­ing the years leading up to Hitler. Under Hitler they did not do so well and some groups were even outlawed. If my information is correct, the astrologers found themselves among the outlawed groups, although everybody inside Germany as well as outside knew that Hitler and Himmler had a personal astrol­oger, reportedly a man whose name happened to be Führer, a Dr. W. Führer who also was "Plenipotentiary for Mathematics, Astronomy and Physics."

The pseudosciences I have in mind are not these internationally distributed permanent fads, but some which originated in Germany and while not completely unknown elsewhere, had a special appeal to Germans in about the same sense in which it might be said that the pyramidologists are a British prerogative.

Much of their appeal must have been based on semantic connotations; it is difficult even to translate the names of these "sciences" properly.

The most important of them were Pendelforschung — Pendulum Re­search, Hohlweltlehre — Hollow Earth Doctrine, and Welteislehre — usually abbreviated as WEL, translatable approximately as World Ice Doctrine. But before devoting any space to these more outstanding "achievements" I have to clean up a few minor but not less surprising matters.

In the days before the Nazis became important the term "Ariosophy" could be seen occasionally in some newspapers. Then, one day, there was a small ad, announcing a lecture on Ariosophy by a man whose name I forget. It was stated that he was a disciple of the founder of Ariosophy, Dr. Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels. It was also stated that priests would not be admitted to the lecture.

The lecturer, who tried hard to look like Albrecht Dürer, the famous but long-dead German painter, began his lecture with the Statement that there were several human races but that skin color is not the most important criterion for distinguishing the races. Then he launched into an explanation of the hidden importance of language, saying that figures of Speech contain deep truths which, in everyday usage, are usually overlooked. People say, for example, "I can't stand that man's smell — remember, the lecture was in German, where that figure of Speech is used to express personal dislike for somebody, a dislike lacking specific rational reasons — well, that just indicates the otherwise forgotten fact that the various races have different smells, in short it ex-presses revulsion at the other man's race.

By that time the lecture had got around to the word Man —- in Ger­man Mensch — and he pointed out that there was a rare word manschen which means to mix—something unsavory—and with a long Jump from linguistics into the Bible manschen and Mensch were connected. Humanity, it turned out, was the result of a—forbidden—mixture of angels and animals. Each person has a small percentage of angel and a large percentage of animal. The races indicate roughly what the percentages are, a "true race" consists of indi­viduals of about the same percentage which seek each other out. Obviously any small Community is apt to harbor individuals of about the same "race"; pure Aryans, like, for exam­ple, the inhabitants of mountain villages in Norway, may. be as high as one per cent angel.

You can easily see how and where such dream-reasoning fitted into the Nzai philosophy; to my surprise no Party Group or Nazi Community ever erected a statue in honor of Dr. Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels — whose real name may have been Ignaz Donnerwetter.

The Ariosophers could at least quote a few Biblical passages in sup-port of their ideas—they stated that their founder had been a Catholic priest before "he saw the light." The next group was literally founded upon a novel. That group which I think called itself Wahrheitsgesellschaft — Society for Truth — and which was more or less localized in Berlin, devoted its spare time looking for Vril. Yes, their convictions were founded upon Bulwer-Lytton's "The Corning Race." They knew that the book was fiction, Bulwer-Lytton had used that device in order to be able to tell the truth about this "power." The subterranean humanity was nonsense, Vril was not, Possibly it had enabled the British. who kept it as a State secret, to amass their colonial empire. Surely the Romans had -had it, inclosed in small metal balls, which guarded their homes and were referred to as lares. For reasons which I failed to penetrate, the secret of Vril could be found by contemplating the structure of an apple, sliced in halves.

No, I am not joking, that is what I was told with great solemnity and secrecy. Such a group actually existed, they even got out the first issue of a magazine which was to proclaim their credo. (I wish I had kept some of these things, but I had enough books to smuggle out as it was.)

And now we are ready for Pendelforschung.

As translated above, the word means Pendulum Research, which sounds like a serious scientific occupation — say a branch of mechanics. What it meant was this: if you suspended a piece of gold, say a plain wedding ring, from a thread of pure silk, the pendulum would reveal "se­cret s." To work it you placed both elbows on the table and placed the fingertips of your two hands together, fingers slightly spread apart. The silk thread was put between the tips of the middle fingers and then an object, say a photograph, was placed upside down under the suspended ring. After a little while the pendulum would describe a figure, either a circle or an ellipse. The circle was male, the ellipse female. The figure corresponded to the sex of the person on the picture.

If it didn't, the picture either showed a very masculine woman or a very feminine man. The method could be used to establish whether two people who wanted to get married, would harmonize, whether employer and employee would get along and a thousand other things. I was informed for example, why my wrist watch did not want to go. It was "male" too. Later, an uninitiated watchmaker also found a bent shaft.

For further development see the report by Gerard P. Kuiper on "German Astronomy During the War," published in Popular Astronomy, Vol. L1V, No. 6, June, 1946* (Seite 278):
Other groups (of the German navy) including officers of flag rank, supported Pendelforschung: a large map of the At­lantic was spread out horizontally, with a one-inch toy battleship as test object. A pendulum, consisting of a cube of metal about one cubic centimeter and a short string, was swung above the battleship. If the pendulum reacted, it proved the presence of a true battleship at that location.

The Hohlweltlehre — Hollow Earth Doctrine—was invented, as far as I was able to find out, in about 1920. Its main tenet was: the Earth is real, everything else is an optical illusion. The Earth was a spherical bubble, of the same dimensions which "orthodox geography" ascribes to it, in an infinity of solid rock. Humanity lived on the inside of that bubble which was precisely like an "ortho­dox globe," but seen from the inside. Three bodies moved near the Center of that empty bubble, the Sun, the Moon, and the "phantom Universe” a dark-blue sphere with little lights on it, mistaken for the fixed stars. Night was caused by the phantom Universe obscuring the Sun for a part of the Earth; eclipses by the shadow of the phantom Universe falling upon the Moon.

The "wrong Impression" which we have about the Universe is caused by the mistake of thinking that light rays are straight. All rays are al-ways curved, their radius of curvature being on the order of ¼ of the Earth's radius. Because of the curved rays we see distorted projections of things which result in the "astronomical universe" because we always straightened the light rays out. More distortions result from the fact that violet rays have a stronger curvature than red rays.

And now a direct quote — from memory — from the final chapter of the treatise I saw: "Old folk tales often speak of the time when God still walked on Earth. We know that the Earth-Universe expands, even Einstein admits that. What is more logical then, than to take the old folk tales at face value and assume that they refer to a time when the Earth-Universe was smaller and the distance from the central luminosities to the surface less than it is now?"

For further developments here is an excerpt from Gerard P. Kuiper's report* (Seite 277 & 278):
Certain German naval circles believed in the Hohlwclttheorie. They considered it helpful to locate the British fleet, because the curvature of the Earth would not obstruct observation. Visual rays. were not suitable because of refraction; but infrared rays had less refraction. Accordingly a party of about ten men under the scientific leadership of Dr. Heinz Fischer, an infrared expert, was sent out from Berlin to the Isle of Rügen to photograph the British fleet with infra­red equipment at an upward angle of some forty-five degrees.

The remaining phenomenon of German pseudoscience, the Welteis­lehre or WEL is in many respects the most remarkable. 1t had literally millions of fanatical supporters who would Interrupt educational meetings with concerted yelling, "Out With Astronomical Orthodoxy, Give us Hörbiger," it owned and maintained an Information Bureau in Vienna, it maintained a monthly magazine— The Key to World Events—of large circulation, it produces three or four "scientific," close to forty "popular" books and several dozen throw-away Pamphlets. The leaders of the WEL wrote openly threatening letters; I once saw one—not addressed to me —in which the director of a government institute was told "once we have won, you and your kind will go begging." And the founder of it all, Hanns Hörbiger, with whom I was in correspondence about rockets for some time, bared the WEL's chief doctrine once in a letter in which he wrote: "either you believe me and learn, or you must be treated as an enemy." And I know of a minor businessman who hired help only if the prospective employee, to use his own words, "had assured him that he or she felt friendly about the World Ice."

It was in 1913 that one Philipp Fauth, school teacher and amateur astronomer — with some reputation as a Moon specialist — published a book of about eight hundred pages, about the size and weight of one volume of the Britannica. It was entitled Hörbigers  Glazial - Kosmogonie. Much of it had actually been written by Hörbiger, an Austrian mining engineer who at first said very politely that he had tried to solve the riddles of the Universe, especially the formation of planets, geological history and meteorology with engineering principles. Later on he claimed that recognition had been denied him because he was an engineer and not an astronomical theorist. I may add that both his publications and his letters revealed clearly that he was not even a good engineer.

The outbreak of World War I killed interest in this first publication which was later referred to as the Main Work. After the first World War Hanns Hörbiger, equipped with a long white beard and a handwriting which was calculated to impress amateur graphologers, appeared on the scene like a political party, with leaflets and posters, publicity machinery and everything. If anybody doubted him he shouted: "Instead of trusting me you trust equations! How long will you need to learn that mathematics is valueless and deceptive?" The "practical engineer" Hörbiger never calculated anything, it was his loudest and proudest claim.

One of his pupils, an architect, told awed and large audiences that Hörbiger's information about the true state of the Universe was based entirely on intuition. As a boy, he said, the Master had a small tele-scope with which he looked at the Moon. Then, suddenly, he realized that what he saw was ice, cold ice, the whole Moon was. made of ice. He glanced at blinding Venus which was still in the sky; Venus too was cold and brilliant ice. Years later. Hörbiger was asleep, dreaming about astronomy. He saw the Earth as a pendulum suspended from a luminous thread and saw it swing, in longer and longer swings. It swung to Jupiter, and to Saturn and be-yond, but when it swung to three times the distance of Neptune the string broke. Hörbiger awakened and realized that the Sun's attraction stops at that distance.

When I asked Hörbiger by mail whether these Claims were true, he replied modestly saying, "Yes, that way the truth was revealed to me, but the clue factor was when, as a young engineer, I saw molten iron run over waterlogged earth with patches of snow on it and observed that the wet lumps of soil exploded with a delay and with great violence."

What did Hörbiger actually say? Here is his tale:
Many millions of years ago there existed in the constellation Columba a super giant sun, millions of times as large and heavy as our sun. Near that sun there was a gigantic planet, many times as heavy as Jupiter, covered by layers of ice hundreds of miles thick and water-logged all through. This planet fell into its sun and settled at a depth corresponding to its specific gravity. Its water and ice was changed into super-heated steam, but nothing happened for more millions of years. Then the equilibrium was disturbed for some reason, and the superheated steam blew the old planet and the layers of sun material above it into space, as a whirling mass. This was the birth of our sun and our solar System. Much of the original planet mass had been metal oxides, the heat released the oxygen and the oxygen combined with the thin atmosphere of hydrogen which fills all space into water which then froze.

Through many successive stages our solar System evolved, with more than thirty planets. Surrounding the system at about right angles there is a mighty ring of blocks of cosmic ice, hovering a little beyond three times the distance of Neptune. It is this ring of ice blocks which astron­omers believe to be the Milky Way because a few normal stars like our sun shine through the ice ring. Ac­tually the Milky Way has never been and will never be resolved in a telescope; photographs claiming to show the individual stars of the Milky Way are fakes. Because of the resistance of the hydrogen in space a number of these ice blocks is sufficiently retarded to be. caught in the Sun's gravitational field and finally to fall into the Sun. Each such ice block impact causes a sunspot—even astronomers admit that the sunspots are cooler than their surroundings— and the sunspots have an eleven-year cycle because of Jupiter who needs the same time to circle the Sun.

Of planets there are two types, the Heliodes or inner planets, mostly metal and metal compounds, and the Neptodes or outer planets, consisting almost entirely of ice. Hence their low specific gravity, which is about that-of ice.**
If an ice block on its way to the Sun happens to hit Earth, we get a devastating hail-storm, as proved by the fact that hailstorms often move in straight lines. But the ice block which fell into the Sun does not stay there, it evaporates and is blown out through the funnel of the sunspot as a jet of hot-water vapor which freezes in space and forms the Fine Ice. Both Mercury and Venus, being so close of the Sun, are completely covered with it. When it hits Earth, the Fine Ice produces those very high cirrus clouds, in fact the diameter of Earth would grow by about six inches every year because of Fine Ice if water did not disappear in the Earth's interior at the same rate.

Earth's position is unique not only because of that lucky balance. If it were closer to the Sun, it would be covered by Fine Ice like Venus. If it were farther out, it would be hit more often by ice blocks and be cov­ered by an ice ocean several miles deep like Mars. The continents of Mars are merely permanent ice continents the canals are cracks in the ice. Our Moon is covered with ice like Mars, being originally an independent planet which has been captured. Because of the resistance of the hydrogen in space, the Moon will ultimately crash on Earth; that will be the end of all life. Several smaller moons preceded our Moon, fortunately they were too small to kill all life; their masses formed what we now call geological deposits.

The most recent Moon cataclysm was witnessed by primitive Man; the Norse legends about Götterdämme­rung and the apocalyptic visions represent attempts to describe this event. They were written after the present moon had been captured—its capture caused Atlantis to sink — and the people who wrote them knew that the experience of the past was also a prophecy of the future.

To pick flaws in this theory is about as easy—and as pleasant—as gathering Japanese beetles from an infested flowerbed. At first German scientists amused themselves by compiling long lists of Hörbigerian impossibilities. But they grew serious and even alarmed when the WEL suddenly assumed the proportions of a powerful popular movement in pseudo-intellectual circles. And after Hitler had come to power, the WEL adherents declared threateningly that now everybody MUST believe Hörbiger, or else. "Our Nordic ancestors grew strong in ice and snow: belief in the World Ice is consequently the natural heritage of Nor­dic Man." "Just as it needed a child of Austrian culture — Hitler! — to put the Jewish politicians in their place, so it needed an Austrian to cleanse the world of Jewish science." "The Führer, by his very life, has proved how much a so-called 'amateur’ can be superior to self-styled Professionals; it needed another 'amateur' to give us complete under-standing of the universe."

Maybe Hitler did not like the term "amateur," at any event the WEL people did not find the going as easy as they had hoped. The Propaganda Ministry even stated once that "one can be a good National Socialist without believing in the WEL." The Astronomer Robert Henseling continued to struggle against the WEL in universities continued to teach "or­thodox astronomy," but the WEL remained popular to the bitter end. The WEL claimed that its principles permitted reliable "general"—as distinct from local—weather forecasts for months and even years in advance. Their organization did publish such forecasts, and a good number of young meteorologists toyed with the World Ice. But they failed to foresee that winter which broke Hitler's back on the Russian plains.
end.


#7    psyche101

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:33 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 21 January 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Hypersonic Flight is highly primitive and unnecessary. Read Flying Saucers and Science by Stanton Friedman.

Absolute rubbish, but if Stanton Friedman told you then doubly so.  Another who salutes the sage of UFONuttery. No thank's, your recommendation would have been far more credible if you had used a character with some depth and earned respect, like Mickey Mouse.

The man who invented Roswell aliens. I suppose that is why believers consider him royalty? Cannot be his research  His last work that he co-authored with Kathleen Marden, "Science was wrong" is not only badly written and missing much, in it, Friedman said he deliberately avoided Tesla here because he claimed "The guy is too complicated".

That is a lousy lazy excuse if ever I have heard one. If this is the sort of tomfoolery you consider gospel, it really is no wonder that your information is stale, and your view very much old school. Amazing you have not mentioned Martian's yourself yet.

Hypersonic flight is ubercool. If you do not think so, I reckon you're a bit of a strange one to be honest. Nothing uncool about 20 times the speed of sound in the atmosphere.

Primitive? By whose standards? Stanton Friedmans voice in his head? I would say Stanton is probably a bit peeved that his nuttery does not even get a mention whilst people fawn over real accomplishments, like actually achieving hypersonic flight.

The only primitive aspect to Hypersonic flight would be the adrenaline rush from going so fast, like screaming down an open road on a bike. Maybe that sort of thing is a bit masculine for you, I do not know.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 21 January 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

I believe most countries expecially the super powers are on the same page regarding ET's and the implications of disclosure. I believe contrary to people's strong nationalistic ideals that is steeped in tradition we are all the same people. Zbigniew Brzezinski and many politcal leaders know that ET or some external threat can bring the world together as one. We have that primate instinct to for tribal warfare amongst tribes.

Then I take it you have no Idead about the corruption in Africa, the PNG, or even the PM I have to suffer downunder. If you are trying to tell me Jooliar Gillard is a super power who is helping the US hide aliens under the presidents desk, then I think you might just be even nuttier than Friedman.

What about the countries I mentioned? The Middle East, China? Vietnam? Korea? They have no love nor affiliation with the US. why do they not tell everyone that the US has interstellar visitors??? Why do they keep quiet?

and how do they keep the craft form being seen by the literal thousands of pairs of eye from the amateur community 24/7?


View Posttopsecretresearch, on 21 January 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

One danger with secrecy in a capatalist system is technology such as ET tech tends to be supressed in a beurocracy of secrey or exploited at the gain of defense contractors or corporate interest.

There is no ET tech, Everything on earth has a long history of R&D associated with it. Everything. Nothing just appeared. And economics have always ruled the world, we never needed Aliens to have a need to curb greed, we can do that just fine on our own. People will go to great lengths for a great deal of money. That will shape technologies. Greed is not alien to us.
Most of the mindless believers also do not take production into account. New things are dear, because there is not many "new thing" machines. Take flat panel TV's. The 55" the=at I paid 1K for ar Dick Smith at Christmas time would have set me back more like 15K a decade and a half ago. Production affects the cost. Things might not have been available that such numpties deem as "sudden" when in fact the tech has been around for ages, just too expensive to be practical.

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 21 January 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

In my opinion it is better to have a transparent system where there is overt reguation and control of both technology and resources instead of covert manipulation through contrived conflict and propaganda (fear mongering, creating threats). People should also have a right to knowledge in terms of other life that may exist in the Universe, who we are as a species and the true nature of life. Not secret knowledge only some have and everybody else is a pawn, sheep, or slave.

Nothing stopping people for finding out themselves. I have a 10" Dobsonian telscope, and I do my utmost to utilise it to the best of my ability. I am gathering equipment to try and put together my own Radio telescope. I attend star parties, talk to people who actively try to understand the night sky, and keep an eye out in places such as this. Go get your knowledge. Lets face it

That is not what you lot want at all is it.

You want your fantasy handed to you on a platter and with confirmation. To some it is even inconceivable that the fantasy does not exist as they see it in their heads. But things are what they are.  No matter how much one can want a thing, wanting does not make it happen. We make things happen. So stop whining, get of your behind, leave the screen, go outside and look up. Make a start. Stop pretending it is happening all around you and there is nothing you can do but reach out to others. That not productive, that's just drama queen. Bloody do something. Get of your bum.


I notice your signature now says:

*Cover-Up Types, Spin Doctors, Flame Baters, Crank Debunkers, Armchair Skeptics, Trashing Topics people will be ignored.

I still seem to be getting you to answer, even though you try to label me as a spin doctor, but you fail when I ask you to qualify your insult. I suggest you change your sig. That you had the guts to debate skeptics and face real facts, even though you may not accept them, is what made you a full head and shoulders over the truly credulous like Zoser. What earns respect is hards yard, going toe to toe, debating, and proving how you came to a certain conclusion. Just pretending nobody has answered your personal conundrum and packing up your bat and ball and going home makes you look weak. It's just a proverbial white flag. If you do truly believe that which you clam to, then stand up for it. And accept when things are good, and when they are not. Take a page form the books fo Quillius and MacGuffin. They do the hard yards, they stand toe to toe with skeptics, and argue their point to attempt resolution. They are trying to remove the tin foil hat that believers have so firmly wedged on the phenomena. Be a believer that skeptics AND believers say" the guy knows his stuff' Not What a marroon".

ETA, do not copy and paste whole bloody books worth of crap, That is the function of a link. You just post a bit, and if someone want more, they take it. Tell us what YOU  have to say on the subject. Anyone can read an article.

Edited by psyche101, 22 January 2013 - 05:47 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#8    ruiomichlet

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:42 AM

They have been talking about this for a couple of years.Posted ImagePosted Image


#9    topsecretresearch

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:15 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 22 January 2013 - 05:33 AM, said:

Then I take it you have no Idead about the corruption in Africa, the PNG, or even the PM I have to suffer downunder. If you are trying to tell me Jooliar Gillard is a super power who is helping the US hide aliens under the presidents desk, then I think you might just be even nuttier than Friedman.

What about the countries I mentioned? The Middle East, China? Vietnam? Korea? They have no love nor affiliation with the US. why do they not tell everyone that the US has interstellar visitors??? Why do they keep quiet?

Australia is part of the cover-up. The RAAF has covered-up disc landings much like the USAF and has used cover stories. Both countries are allies. See: Australia-US alliance


#10    DingoLingo

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 22 January 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Australia is part of the cover-up. The RAAF has covered-up disc landings much like the USAF and has used cover stories. Both countries are allies. See: Australia-US alliance

Oh please.. the aussie gov couldnt cover a salad bowl with glad wrap..

Perfect example.. Woomera.. the missle test range.. so secret that everyone knew where it was.. you would see a launch happen and a tourist to the area would look and point saying 'whats that' and the locals would say.. whats what..


#11    keithisco

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:04 PM

Just a couple of things I would like to respond to concerning earlier posts: I think DARPA is a brilliant, if not essential, Institution because outlandish (seemingly) concepts can actually be considered outside of Established Scientific Orthodoxy, and without fear of ridicule - whoever said PhD's, in very restricted disciplines, actually are sufficiently "open" to un-orthodox solutions when their own Theses to attain their PhD's are Peer Reviewed by Orthodoxy.

I have myself participated in DARPA "Calls" of interest, the only thing that is missing in this world is an International Equivalent, where "Thinkers" can respond to "Calls" without National restrictions. This is of course down to ITAR Restrictions - and will lead to the USA missing out on some significant advances.

Secondly, Stanton Friedman is NOT your run-of-the-mill, CT'er, or believer in ET visitations. He has discredited such reports from a purely Scientific Method approach, and has never said that a particular event is proof of anything.


#12    keithisco

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:07 PM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 21 January 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

PSEUDOSCIENCE IN NAZILAND
BY WILLY LEY
Illustrated by Tiedeman
(Engl. Original Text und dt. Übersetzung)

Posted Image

The Nazis did accomplish a remarkable series of scientific advances. Willy Ley explains, in part, how come. Nazi research science to have been strictly on the shotgun technique; if you shoot enough holes in the unknown, something's apt to drop in your lap. And the Nazis tried everything—anything, no matter how wild!

When things get so tough that there seems to be no way out, the Russian embraces the vodka bottle, the Frenchman a woman and the American the Bible.

The German tends to resort to magic, to some nonsensical belief which he tries to validate by way of hysterics and physical force. Not every German, of course. Not even a majority, but it seems to me that the percentage of people so inclined is higher in Germany than in other countries. It was the willingness of a noticeable proportion of the Germans to rate rhetoric above research. and intuition above knowledge, that brought to power a political party which was frankly and loudly anti-intellectual. The Nazis not only burned books they disliked, they also classified theoretical physicists with "Jews and Marxists."

Small wonder the pseudoscientists experienced a heyday under such a regime — but it would be a mistake to believe that these pseudosciences which l am going to describe, originated with the Nazis. They existed, and to some extent even flourished, before Hitler. But then they were hemmed in by the authority of the scientists—after Hitler had become Führer it was almost the other way round.

When speaking about German pseudoscience I am not thinking so much of the usual run of astrologers, fortune tellers, theosophers and devotees to occultism. Of course there was a theosophical society—or rather a few branches hurling noncompliments at one another—there were astrological magazines and presumably astrological societies. There were struggling clairvoyants, mostly struggling among themselves by way of the printed word and resulting lawsuits—I won't judge, but I should think that they should have known the outcome — and there was an occultistic magazine vainly trying to make peace and "advance the cause."

Representatives of all these groups existed in Germany before World War I and began to flourish during World War I. They kept flourishing during the inflationary period, received a slight setback during the few years of mild prosperity in the Twenties, and flourished again dur­ing the years leading up to Hitler. Under Hitler they did not do so well and some groups were even outlawed. If my information is correct, the astrologers found themselves among the outlawed groups, although everybody inside Germany as well as outside knew that Hitler and Himmler had a personal astrol­oger, reportedly a man whose name happened to be Führer, a Dr. W. Führer who also was "Plenipotentiary for Mathematics, Astronomy and Physics."

The pseudosciences I have in mind are not these internationally distributed permanent fads, but some which originated in Germany and while not completely unknown elsewhere, had a special appeal to Germans in about the same sense in which it might be said that the pyramidologists are a British prerogative.

Much of their appeal must have been based on semantic connotations; it is difficult even to translate the names of these "sciences" properly.

The most important of them were Pendelforschung — Pendulum Re­search, Hohlweltlehre — Hollow Earth Doctrine, and Welteislehre — usually abbreviated as WEL, translatable approximately as World Ice Doctrine. But before devoting any space to these more outstanding "achievements" I have to clean up a few minor but not less surprising matters.

In the days before the Nazis became important the term "Ariosophy" could be seen occasionally in some newspapers. Then, one day, there was a small ad, announcing a lecture on Ariosophy by a man whose name I forget. It was stated that he was a disciple of the founder of Ariosophy, Dr. Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels. It was also stated that priests would not be admitted to the lecture.

The lecturer, who tried hard to look like Albrecht Dürer, the famous but long-dead German painter, began his lecture with the Statement that there were several human races but that skin color is not the most important criterion for distinguishing the races. Then he launched into an explanation of the hidden importance of language, saying that figures of Speech contain deep truths which, in everyday usage, are usually overlooked. People say, for example, "I can't stand that man's smell — remember, the lecture was in German, where that figure of Speech is used to express personal dislike for somebody, a dislike lacking specific rational reasons — well, that just indicates the otherwise forgotten fact that the various races have different smells, in short it ex-presses revulsion at the other man's race.

By that time the lecture had got around to the word Man —- in Ger­man Mensch — and he pointed out that there was a rare word manschen which means to mix—something unsavory—and with a long Jump from linguistics into the Bible manschen and Mensch were connected. Humanity, it turned out, was the result of a—forbidden—mixture of angels and animals. Each person has a small percentage of angel and a large percentage of animal. The races indicate roughly what the percentages are, a "true race" consists of indi­viduals of about the same percentage which seek each other out. Obviously any small Community is apt to harbor individuals of about the same "race"; pure Aryans, like, for exam­ple, the inhabitants of mountain villages in Norway, may. be as high as one per cent angel.

You can easily see how and where such dream-reasoning fitted into the Nzai philosophy; to my surprise no Party Group or Nazi Community ever erected a statue in honor of Dr. Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels — whose real name may have been Ignaz Donnerwetter.

The Ariosophers could at least quote a few Biblical passages in sup-port of their ideas—they stated that their founder had been a Catholic priest before "he saw the light." The next group was literally founded upon a novel. That group which I think called itself Wahrheitsgesellschaft — Society for Truth — and which was more or less localized in Berlin, devoted its spare time looking for Vril. Yes, their convictions were founded upon Bulwer-Lytton's "The Corning Race." They knew that the book was fiction, Bulwer-Lytton had used that device in order to be able to tell the truth about this "power." The subterranean humanity was nonsense, Vril was not, Possibly it had enabled the British. who kept it as a State secret, to amass their colonial empire. Surely the Romans had -had it, inclosed in small metal balls, which guarded their homes and were referred to as lares. For reasons which I failed to penetrate, the secret of Vril could be found by contemplating the structure of an apple, sliced in halves.

No, I am not joking, that is what I was told with great solemnity and secrecy. Such a group actually existed, they even got out the first issue of a magazine which was to proclaim their credo. (I wish I had kept some of these things, but I had enough books to smuggle out as it was.)

And now we are ready for Pendelforschung.

As translated above, the word means Pendulum Research, which sounds like a serious scientific occupation — say a branch of mechanics. What it meant was this: if you suspended a piece of gold, say a plain wedding ring, from a thread of pure silk, the pendulum would reveal "se­cret s." To work it you placed both elbows on the table and placed the fingertips of your two hands together, fingers slightly spread apart. The silk thread was put between the tips of the middle fingers and then an object, say a photograph, was placed upside down under the suspended ring. After a little while the pendulum would describe a figure, either a circle or an ellipse. The circle was male, the ellipse female. The figure corresponded to the sex of the person on the picture.

If it didn't, the picture either showed a very masculine woman or a very feminine man. The method could be used to establish whether two people who wanted to get married, would harmonize, whether employer and employee would get along and a thousand other things. I was informed for example, why my wrist watch did not want to go. It was "male" too. Later, an uninitiated watchmaker also found a bent shaft.

For further development see the report by Gerard P. Kuiper on "German Astronomy During the War," published in Popular Astronomy, Vol. L1V, No. 6, June, 1946* (Seite 278):
Other groups (of the German navy) including officers of flag rank, supported Pendelforschung: a large map of the At­lantic was spread out horizontally, with a one-inch toy battleship as test object. A pendulum, consisting of a cube of metal about one cubic centimeter and a short string, was swung above the battleship. If the pendulum reacted, it proved the presence of a true battleship at that location.

The Hohlweltlehre — Hollow Earth Doctrine—was invented, as far as I was able to find out, in about 1920. Its main tenet was: the Earth is real, everything else is an optical illusion. The Earth was a spherical bubble, of the same dimensions which "orthodox geography" ascribes to it, in an infinity of solid rock. Humanity lived on the inside of that bubble which was precisely like an "ortho­dox globe," but seen from the inside. Three bodies moved near the Center of that empty bubble, the Sun, the Moon, and the "phantom Universe” a dark-blue sphere with little lights on it, mistaken for the fixed stars. Night was caused by the phantom Universe obscuring the Sun for a part of the Earth; eclipses by the shadow of the phantom Universe falling upon the Moon.

The "wrong Impression" which we have about the Universe is caused by the mistake of thinking that light rays are straight. All rays are al-ways curved, their radius of curvature being on the order of ¼ of the Earth's radius. Because of the curved rays we see distorted projections of things which result in the "astronomical universe" because we always straightened the light rays out. More distortions result from the fact that violet rays have a stronger curvature than red rays.

And now a direct quote — from memory — from the final chapter of the treatise I saw: "Old folk tales often speak of the time when God still walked on Earth. We know that the Earth-Universe expands, even Einstein admits that. What is more logical then, than to take the old folk tales at face value and assume that they refer to a time when the Earth-Universe was smaller and the distance from the central luminosities to the surface less than it is now?"

For further developments here is an excerpt from Gerard P. Kuiper's report* (Seite 277 & 278):
Certain German naval circles believed in the Hohlwclttheorie. They considered it helpful to locate the British fleet, because the curvature of the Earth would not obstruct observation. Visual rays. were not suitable because of refraction; but infrared rays had less refraction. Accordingly a party of about ten men under the scientific leadership of Dr. Heinz Fischer, an infrared expert, was sent out from Berlin to the Isle of Rügen to photograph the British fleet with infra­red equipment at an upward angle of some forty-five degrees.

The remaining phenomenon of German pseudoscience, the Welteis­lehre or WEL is in many respects the most remarkable. 1t had literally millions of fanatical supporters who would Interrupt educational meetings with concerted yelling, "Out With Astronomical Orthodoxy, Give us Hörbiger," it owned and maintained an Information Bureau in Vienna, it maintained a monthly magazine— The Key to World Events—of large circulation, it produces three or four "scientific," close to forty "popular" books and several dozen throw-away Pamphlets. The leaders of the WEL wrote openly threatening letters; I once saw one—not addressed to me —in which the director of a government institute was told "once we have won, you and your kind will go begging." And the founder of it all, Hanns Hörbiger, with whom I was in correspondence about rockets for some time, bared the WEL's chief doctrine once in a letter in which he wrote: "either you believe me and learn, or you must be treated as an enemy." And I know of a minor businessman who hired help only if the prospective employee, to use his own words, "had assured him that he or she felt friendly about the World Ice."

It was in 1913 that one Philipp Fauth, school teacher and amateur astronomer — with some reputation as a Moon specialist — published a book of about eight hundred pages, about the size and weight of one volume of the Britannica. It was entitled Hörbigers  Glazial - Kosmogonie. Much of it had actually been written by Hörbiger, an Austrian mining engineer who at first said very politely that he had tried to solve the riddles of the Universe, especially the formation of planets, geological history and meteorology with engineering principles. Later on he claimed that recognition had been denied him because he was an engineer and not an astronomical theorist. I may add that both his publications and his letters revealed clearly that he was not even a good engineer.

The outbreak of World War I killed interest in this first publication which was later referred to as the Main Work. After the first World War Hanns Hörbiger, equipped with a long white beard and a handwriting which was calculated to impress amateur graphologers, appeared on the scene like a political party, with leaflets and posters, publicity machinery and everything. If anybody doubted him he shouted: "Instead of trusting me you trust equations! How long will you need to learn that mathematics is valueless and deceptive?" The "practical engineer" Hörbiger never calculated anything, it was his loudest and proudest claim.

One of his pupils, an architect, told awed and large audiences that Hörbiger's information about the true state of the Universe was based entirely on intuition. As a boy, he said, the Master had a small tele-scope with which he looked at the Moon. Then, suddenly, he realized that what he saw was ice, cold ice, the whole Moon was. made of ice. He glanced at blinding Venus which was still in the sky; Venus too was cold and brilliant ice. Years later. Hörbiger was asleep, dreaming about astronomy. He saw the Earth as a pendulum suspended from a luminous thread and saw it swing, in longer and longer swings. It swung to Jupiter, and to Saturn and be-yond, but when it swung to three times the distance of Neptune the string broke. Hörbiger awakened and realized that the Sun's attraction stops at that distance.

When I asked Hörbiger by mail whether these Claims were true, he replied modestly saying, "Yes, that way the truth was revealed to me, but the clue factor was when, as a young engineer, I saw molten iron run over waterlogged earth with patches of snow on it and observed that the wet lumps of soil exploded with a delay and with great violence."

What did Hörbiger actually say? Here is his tale:
Many millions of years ago there existed in the constellation Columba a super giant sun, millions of times as large and heavy as our sun. Near that sun there was a gigantic planet, many times as heavy as Jupiter, covered by layers of ice hundreds of miles thick and water-logged all through. This planet fell into its sun and settled at a depth corresponding to its specific gravity. Its water and ice was changed into super-heated steam, but nothing happened for more millions of years. Then the equilibrium was disturbed for some reason, and the superheated steam blew the old planet and the layers of sun material above it into space, as a whirling mass. This was the birth of our sun and our solar System. Much of the original planet mass had been metal oxides, the heat released the oxygen and the oxygen combined with the thin atmosphere of hydrogen which fills all space into water which then froze.

Through many successive stages our solar System evolved, with more than thirty planets. Surrounding the system at about right angles there is a mighty ring of blocks of cosmic ice, hovering a little beyond three times the distance of Neptune. It is this ring of ice blocks which astron­omers believe to be the Milky Way because a few normal stars like our sun shine through the ice ring. Ac­tually the Milky Way has never been and will never be resolved in a telescope; photographs claiming to show the individual stars of the Milky Way are fakes. Because of the resistance of the hydrogen in space a number of these ice blocks is sufficiently retarded to be. caught in the Sun's gravitational field and finally to fall into the Sun. Each such ice block impact causes a sunspot—even astronomers admit that the sunspots are cooler than their surroundings— and the sunspots have an eleven-year cycle because of Jupiter who needs the same time to circle the Sun.

Of planets there are two types, the Heliodes or inner planets, mostly metal and metal compounds, and the Neptodes or outer planets, consisting almost entirely of ice. Hence their low specific gravity, which is about that-of ice.**
If an ice block on its way to the Sun happens to hit Earth, we get a devastating hail-storm, as proved by the fact that hailstorms often move in straight lines. But the ice block which fell into the Sun does not stay there, it evaporates and is blown out through the funnel of the sunspot as a jet of hot-water vapor which freezes in space and forms the Fine Ice. Both Mercury and Venus, being so close of the Sun, are completely covered with it. When it hits Earth, the Fine Ice produces those very high cirrus clouds, in fact the diameter of Earth would grow by about six inches every year because of Fine Ice if water did not disappear in the Earth's interior at the same rate.

Earth's position is unique not only because of that lucky balance. If it were closer to the Sun, it would be covered by Fine Ice like Venus. If it were farther out, it would be hit more often by ice blocks and be cov­ered by an ice ocean several miles deep like Mars. The continents of Mars are merely permanent ice continents the canals are cracks in the ice. Our Moon is covered with ice like Mars, being originally an independent planet which has been captured. Because of the resistance of the hydrogen in space, the Moon will ultimately crash on Earth; that will be the end of all life. Several smaller moons preceded our Moon, fortunately they were too small to kill all life; their masses formed what we now call geological deposits.

The most recent Moon cataclysm was witnessed by primitive Man; the Norse legends about Götterdämme­rung and the apocalyptic visions represent attempts to describe this event. They were written after the present moon had been captured—its capture caused Atlantis to sink — and the people who wrote them knew that the experience of the past was also a prophecy of the future.

To pick flaws in this theory is about as easy—and as pleasant—as gathering Japanese beetles from an infested flowerbed. At first German scientists amused themselves by compiling long lists of Hörbigerian impossibilities. But they grew serious and even alarmed when the WEL suddenly assumed the proportions of a powerful popular movement in pseudo-intellectual circles. And after Hitler had come to power, the WEL adherents declared threateningly that now everybody MUST believe Hörbiger, or else. "Our Nordic ancestors grew strong in ice and snow: belief in the World Ice is consequently the natural heritage of Nor­dic Man." "Just as it needed a child of Austrian culture — Hitler! — to put the Jewish politicians in their place, so it needed an Austrian to cleanse the world of Jewish science." "The Führer, by his very life, has proved how much a so-called 'amateur’ can be superior to self-styled Professionals; it needed another 'amateur' to give us complete under-standing of the universe."

Maybe Hitler did not like the term "amateur," at any event the WEL people did not find the going as easy as they had hoped. The Propaganda Ministry even stated once that "one can be a good National Socialist without believing in the WEL." The Astronomer Robert Henseling continued to struggle against the WEL in universities continued to teach "or­thodox astronomy," but the WEL remained popular to the bitter end. The WEL claimed that its principles permitted reliable "general"—as distinct from local—weather forecasts for months and even years in advance. Their organization did publish such forecasts, and a good number of young meteorologists toyed with the World Ice. But they failed to foresee that winter which broke Hitler's back on the Russian plains.
end.

Sorry, your post is way too long, and I lost the will to live before I got half way through it.

Could you break it down into it's salient points so I can read it ? It's an AGE thing :yes:


#13    SurgeTechnologies

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

I too like darpa ... they've made alot of sci fi projects reallity god knows what more they have in store. Loved the " iron curtain " project.

" Technology has exceeded our humanity. "

#14    psyche101

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:58 PM

View Posttopsecretresearch, on 22 January 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Australia is part of the cover-up. The RAAF has covered-up disc landings much like the USAF and has used cover stories. Both countries are allies. See: Australia-US alliance


:lol:

My GOSH that made me chuckle. My sister was in the RAAF in the sensitive position of CISCOM, I have asked her about these ET stories, and she laughed so hard she cried. You can believe such a cover up exists, I know it does not.

:w00t: Jooliar and the RAAF LOL. yeah sure.

This is our esteemed PM.

Posted Image


Dead set, you have never been to OZ have you?

Julia is better in a knife fight than a cover up I would say.

Also, I note you did not say a thing about the countries that I listed, but picked an ally, why is that? Because Australia is an ally, and you think they are part of some collusion (our allegiance is the the Queen, we are still Commonwealth BTW) do you think that the MIddle East, China, Korea, The USSR, heck even France would keep quiet? If so, can you explain, because your logic seems to make absolutely no sense whatsoever. We rely on the US might for our support. We have no Nukes. Hell, we do not even have guns! As such, you do not answer the question, or many others. Come on, if you have real information then it wont be refuted. Stop dancing around.

Edited by psyche101, 22 January 2013 - 11:19 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#15    psyche101

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

View PostDingoLingo, on 22 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Oh please.. the aussie gov couldnt cover a salad bowl with glad wrap..

Perfect example.. Woomera.. the missle test range.. so secret that everyone knew where it was.. you would see a launch happen and a tourist to the area would look and point saying 'whats that' and the locals would say.. whats what..


:lol: :rofl:

HAD to say :tu:




View Postkeithisco, on 22 January 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Secondly, Stanton Friedman is NOT your run-of-the-mill, CT'er, or believer in ET visitations. He has discredited such reports from a purely Scientific Method approach, and has never said that a particular event is proof of anything.

I agree with you on DARPA, but not so much on Mr Friedman.

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Stanton Friedman: Well, it’s a very important point because I’m convinced that any advanced civilization will know about telepathy and mind control and communication at a distance. It really came home to me when I was standing at the exact location where Barney Hill was standing when the saucer was over their car and he’s looking through binoculars at the crew on board.
It seems to me eminently clear that these guys have capabilities—as the only simple term I know—to do things that we don’t look upon as being respectable. Such as mind-reading, mind control, and getting people to forget.



LINK



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As a nuclear physicist who has had a serious interest in flying saucers since 1958, I have reached four major conclusions:
  • The evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft. Most are not.
  • The subject of flying saucers represents a kind of Cosmic Watergate, meaning that some few people in major governments have known since July, 1947, when two crashed saucers and several alien bodies were recovered in New Mexico, that indeed SOME UFOs are ET. As noted in 1950, it’s the most classified U.S. topic.
  • None of the arguments made against conclusions One and Two by a small group of debunkers such as Carl Sagan, my University of Chicago classmate for three years, can stand up to careful scrutiny.
I prove at every lecture that the NSA and CIA are withholding UFO data. Having worked under security for fourteen years, visited seventeen document archives, and having become aware of the huge black budgets of the NSA, NRO, CIA, DIA, etc., I know how easy it is to keep secrets. My nineteen years of study about crashed saucers, and thirteen years on the Majestic-12 documents have convinced me these are real. The challenge for us all, as we enter the new millennium, is to recognize that while our future is in space, we are not alone. I truly hope we qualify for admission to the Cosmic Kindergarten.

LINK

He is directly responsible for the appearance of Aliens in the Roswell story as well.


Quote

In his book, TOP SECRET/MAJIC, Friedman discusses his early UFO lectures:
"As I gave more lectures, I found that I enjoyed speaking, and that people believed me no matter what I said. After all, I was a nuclear physicist for Westinghouse…"




LINK

Dead set, I do not know what anyone sees in the guy. Just a run of the mill ETH'er I reckon.

Edited by psyche101, 22 January 2013 - 11:15 PM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.





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