63 replies to this topic

[Fluffybunny]

preacherman76, on 19 February 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Besides, getting chicken pox isnt that bad.

Except for the people that it is bad. Do they count?

[preacherman76]

Fluffybunny, on 19 February 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

Except for the people that it is bad. Do they count?

No.  

Some folks get bad side effects from taking the vaccine. All im saying is no one should be "slapped upside the head"-(Kratos) for having the freedom to choose.

Edited by preacherman76, 19 February 2012 - 10:35 AM.

[preacherman76]

Rafterman, on 19 February 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

Ever read the side effects for aspirin or Tylenol?  If you understood how drug testing was carried out, you'd know that if 1 person in 5,000 developed cancer while participating in the trial, then cancer has to be listed as a possible side effect.

One in 5000 is alot of people getting cancer. All im saying is its obvious many of the drugs they advertise, the risk often times out weighs the benefits. Many of those drugs have a long list of possible horrible side effects. And its those same people who litteraly push mind altering drugs, doing permanent damage, to millions of children. And they do it through lies of chemical imbalances that they never even test for. Its a scam that has and will continue to scar this country (and many other countries) in ways we dont fully realise yet.

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As far as mercury is concerned, there has never been a link found between it and anything.

Never heard of mercury poisoning? Mercury is a powerful neuro toxin. It should be common sence to never inject anyone, let alone babies, with mercury. Especialy so that multi billion dollar companies can save a buck. The way I see it, why on earth would I trust people who push mind altering drugs, ruining the lifes of millions of children, on subjects such as the safty of injecting mercury directly into the veins babies. They obviously have no conscience regarding harming the brains of children. They out right lie in order to make money doing just that.

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As to the OP, it's about time.  We need to be marginalizing these anti-vaccer types until they begin to realize that they are putting us all at risk with their stupidity - especially our children.  Personally, I no longer let my children socialize with the anti-vacs and I make sure that they know why.

Why stop there? Might as well just throw us in the gas chambers. If people wont buy into what big pharm is telling us is good for us, then the whole planet is in danger

[aquatus1]

Gas chambers.  Wow.

That has to be the longest Godwin-esque reach I have ever seen.

[rashore]

Thought this might be an interesting article for the conversation..

Courier Press

It's about some measles cases popping up in Indiana, and it looks like at least a person or two with it attended the superbowl festivities a couple weeks ago.

[Mekorig]

Looks like some people in the USA are dead set to return to the living conditions of 1800, or before.

[__Kratos__]

preacherman76, on 19 February 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

All im saying is no one should be "slapped upside the head"-(Kratos) for having the freedom to choose.

You shouldn't have the freedom to endanger others by not being vaccinated therefore degrading herd immunity to protect us all including the most vulnerable among us.

Because of people refusing to be vaccinated, old and rare sicknesses are popping up in the hardest hit areas because of it.

Suck it up and get a shot in the arm... You even get a free lollipop if you're good. Or refuse a legitimate medical treatment and kill children and weaken adults instead of getting free candy.

Quite honestly, I'm on the side of free candy.

[Bavarian Raven]

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You shouldn't have the freedom to endanger others by not being vaccinated therefore degrading herd immunity to protect us all including the most vulnerable among us.

Because of people refusing to be vaccinated, old and rare sicknesses are popping up in the hardest hit areas because of it.

Suck it up and get a shot in the arm... You even get a free lollipop if you're good.  Or refuse a legitimate medical treatment and kill children and weaken adults instead of getting free candy.

Quite honestly, I'm on the side of free candy.

i guess some of us are on the side of freedom. :/

~

that being said, for more serious disease (yes, i know chicken pox can be serious but usually its not) i believe people should be encouraged to get vaccinated... but again, it should not be forced upon the people.

Edited by Bavarian Raven, 19 February 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[Stellar]

I don't think the solution is to force people to get vaccinated...

I think the real solution lies in educating people on how vaccines work and, even more importantly, educating the doctors, vaccine developers, and eliminating corruption in the pharmaceutical corporations so that the people once again trust the people recommending they take the vaccines.

[Rafterman]

preacherman76, on 19 February 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

One in 5000 is alot of people getting cancer. All im saying is its obvious many of the drugs they advertise, the risk often times out weighs the benefits. Many of those drugs have a long list of possible horrible side effects. And its those same people who litteraly push mind altering drugs, doing permanent damage, to millions of children. And they do it through lies of chemical imbalances that they never even test for. Its a scam that has and will continue to scar this country (and many other countries) in ways we dont fully realise yet.

You missed the point entirely - people get cancer all of the time.  If said person got cancer while participating in a drug trial, then that has to be listed as a possible side effect.  You don't have to prove a causal relationship.  Get it?

Never heard of mercury poisoning? Mercury is a powerful neuro toxin. It should be common sence to never inject anyone, let alone babies, with mercury. Especialy so that multi billion dollar companies can save a buck. The way I see it, why on earth would I trust people who push mind altering drugs, ruining the lifes of millions of children, on subjects such as the safty of injecting mercury directly into the veins babies. They obviously have no conscience regarding harming the brains of children. They out right lie in order to make money doing just that.

Can you show any evidence that anyone has ever gotten mercury poisoning from vaccines?  Also, you should read up on the differences between ethylmercury (which is in vaccines)and
methylmercury (which is what you're talking about)  Here's a starting point for you: http://skeptoid.com/...180  Here's what is said about it:  

Mercury

This is the most common claim, and it's the one you've probably heard the most about, so I won't spend much time on it. Some vaccines (but no scheduled childhood vaccines) are preserved with thimerosal, which contains ethylmercury. Elemental mercury is a dangerous neurotoxin, but when it's bound as an organic ethyl, it's easily filtered out of your body by your kidneys and is quickly discharged. This is one reason thimerosal has always been such a safe and popular preservative, and it's still found in many products. Mercury can also be bound as a methyl, which is different, and is much harder for your body to filter out. But fear not; no vaccines or thimerosal ever contained methylmercury, and this scaremongering has no plausible foundation.



Why stop there? Might as well just throw us in the gas chambers. If people wont buy into what big pharm is telling us is good for us, then the whole planet is in danger

Save us the conspiratorial drama please.  Why don't you read up on the resurgence of diseases such as measles, mumps, whooping cough, and even polio.  Anti-vaccers do pose a danger to us all because of their stupidity and they should be marginalized.  Perhaps when they are no longer allowed to go to school, get jobs, etc. they'll finally wake up.  And yes, this really pisses me off.  

[Rafterman]

Stellar, on 19 February 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

I don't think the solution is to force people to get vaccinated...

I think the real solution lies in educating people on how vaccines work and, even more importantly, educating the doctors, vaccine developers, and eliminating corruption in the pharmaceutical corporations so that the people once again trust the people recommending they take the vaccines.

The information is right in front of everyone's face it's just that they don't care to believe it.

Personally I'd rather take my medical advice from someone I trust who has years of training and experience vs, say, some anonymous idiot on the interwebs or a washed up comedian and his porn star ex-wife.

But that's just me.

[Stellar]

Quote

The information is right in front of everyone's face it's just that they don't care to believe it.

Personally I'd rather take my medical advice from someone I trust who has years of training and experience

Can you blame them? I've had my fair share with "professionals" in various fields, and my personal opinion on many of them is that they're incompetent, despite "years of training and experience". How could you blame people people for not believing the information "right infront of their face", when we all live in a world which runs on the very idea of presenting people "just the right information" to convince them to get something they don't need? A world that convinces people that the solution to every problem they have is a drug of some sort?

I, personally, will rely on my own intelligence and critical thinking abilities. If this "medical professional" can't convince me he knows what he's talking about after years and years of studying and experience, then no, I don't believe I'll take his advice.

[FurthurBB]

Stellar, on 19 February 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Can you blame them? I've had my fair share with "professionals" in various fields, and my personal opinion on many of them is that they're incompetent, despite "years of training and experience". How could you blame people people for not believing the information "right infront of their face", when we all live in a world which runs on the very idea of presenting people "just the right information" to convince them to get something they don't need? A world that convinces people that the solution to every problem they have is a drug of some sort?

I, personally, will rely on my own intelligence and critical thinking abilities. If this "medical professional" can't convince me he knows what he's talking about after years and years of studying and experience, then no, I don't believe I'll take his advice.

I agree, and when you have an advanced degree in biology and see first hand how little knowledge of biology physicians seem to retain it is kind of scary.  I have this rare thyroid disease, so rare the endocrinologist who finally figured it out had to name it, and I had to go to 22 endocrinologists before I had one who seemed like they should have graduated from medical school at all.  One of them told me that I must have non-growing, non-metastasizing cancer because there was no other explanation. Now granted, the thyroid is weird and there is actually is a kind of thyroid cancer that has a mutation where it cannot divide, so it stops growing without the cells dying, but it has no clinical significance other than if it grew large enough before it stopped growing to choke you, but that is not the problem I was having.  Not to mention the dozen or so biopsies I had that never showed any large multinucleated cells.  Even the endocrinologist that was smart enough to figure out what was really going on and prescribed me a drug for it, when I asked her how the drug worked, granted I already knew, she got it completely wrong.  It is the most common drug for hyperthyroidism, WTF?

[rodentraiser]

Those that don't want to vaccinate their kids are the embarrassment of America. There were African countries that were engaged in a war that had higher vaccination rates then we did here in the US. I hear what people are saying about freedom, but when your "freedom" begins to turn into a death sentence for someone else, it's time to rethink it. It's simple: we allow people certain rights and freedoms as long as those rights and freedoms don't infringe on the health and well being of other people. We don't allow people to yell Fire in a crowded theater and we should not allow parents to get away with not vaccinating their children because the bottom line is when they don't vaccinate, they're putting EVERYONE else at risk. Ask any pregnant woman what she thinks about being exposed to a disease that could kill her unborn child and see what she has to say about your freedom. Sorry, you don't get to pick and keep those freedoms you believe in that may have deadly effects on someone else. Your freedom to choose could be my death sentence and I will not take that lying down. My opinion, but one I happen to believe in very strongly.

As it is, there is a certain percentage of the population that needs to be vaccinated to keep diseases under control. Those percentages are dropping every year and we are seeing more and more epidemics. All you have to do is pay attention to the news to hear about them. Most vaccines have far less risk to getting them than getting the actual disease does. Take smallpox, for example. I'm using that because in one year, smallpox can kill more people than have died in all the wars in history. Your chances from dying of the vaccine are 1 in 3 million. Your chance of dying from the disease if you should get it: 1 in 3. It has a 30% mortality rate. Measles is so contagious that 90% of the people exposed will get it. The kill rate for measles can be as low as .3% and as high as 28%. Whenever was the last time you heard of a child dying from the measles vaccine? Who would ever not vaccinate their child with odds like this?

Edited by rodentraiser, 20 February 2012 - 04:58 AM.

[Dougal]

FurthurBB, on 20 February 2012 - 02:36 AM, said:

I agree, and when you have an advanced degree in biology and see first hand how little knowledge of biology physicians seem to retain it is kind of scary.  I have this rare thyroid disease, so rare the endocrinologist who finally figured it out had to name it, and I had to go to 22 endocrinologists before I had one who seemed like they should have graduated from medical school at all.  One of them told me that I must have non-growing, non-metastasizing cancer because there was no other explanation. Now granted, the thyroid is weird and there is actually is a kind of thyroid cancer that has a mutation where it cannot divide, so it stops growing without the cells dying, but it has no clinical significance other than if it grew large enough before it stopped growing to choke you, but that is not the problem I was having.  Not to mention the dozen or so biopsies I had that never showed any large multinucleated cells.  Even the endocrinologist that was smart enough to figure out what was really going on and prescribed me a drug for it, when I asked her how the drug worked, granted I already knew, she got it completely wrong.  It is the most common drug for hyperthyroidism, WTF?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought doctors and physicians didn't necessarily learn about how the drugs they prescribe work? They just know when to use it and what effects it has? I would have though it would be more pharmacy that would handle the actual "workings" of the drug?