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Undeniable Evidence of Ancient Aliens


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#1    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:18 AM

The previous thread was closed down and so what I wanted to do was assemble the best and most convincing pieces of evidence of UNDENIABLE ANCIENT ALIENS on this thread from that thread as well as any new evidence that people may have.

The scope of the thread is pretty open as far as material is concerned however I would expect the opening pages to present images, documentary or imagery video material or any latest documents and findings.

I have a lot of images to post initially starting from tomorrow and I will keep adding to this as the thread continues.

Suggested sources where a lot of visual evidence can be found:

Brien Foerster's Channel:

http://www.youtube.c...r/brienfoerster

Jan Peter de Jong's Channel

http://www.youtube.c.../janpeterdejong

Foerster also has a frequently updated Facebook page where material is posted.

http://www.facebook....ospirit?fref=ts

Other material of interest for people new to the topic:

http://www.ancient-m...ges_of_peru.pdf

The youtube documentary:


UFOTV® Presents: UFOTV® ANCIENT ALIENS IN PERU - Directors Double Feature


It is suggested that the above material is used to observe visual evidence only after which it is hoped that one's own personal detection and reasoning will be presented.

As a suggestion the thread could take the direction of the following unexplained aspects :
  • Stonework constructions
  • Folkore and legends
  • Organic human artefacts
  • Artwork relating to AA evidence.
What this thread is not:

1) A competing thread to the existing thread.  The title and theme of this thread is very specific.  Please consider it before posting.

2) A dumping ground for cynicism directed at Von Daniken, Stitchen, Giorgio Tsoukalos or any other famous AA proponent.

3) A place to settle old scores.  I have no loading or prejudice towards anyone on UM.  I politely request for the sake of the topic, the moderators and UM that people refrain from trolling, flamebaiting, flooding, cynicism, or abrasiveness of any kind.

Please keep standards high particularly when dealing with others on the forum.

So that said, thank you for reading and enjoy the thread.

Zoser

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#2    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:32 AM

Starting with the idea of precision in terms of ancient stonework.  There is much to be discussed and studied with this one aspect alone.

Here are a selection of samples:

From the Coricancha wall in Peru.  Remember some of this work is precision fitting in three dimensions:

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To polygonal walls in Ollyantaytambo, Cuzco and Sacsayhuaman:

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The premise being that primitive man (and I use that word deliberately since there is no evidence that say Inca or Aymara indians were able to achieve such things), had not the physical means to do this.  The evidence suggests that the primitive people at the time did not even possess knowledge of the wheel!

This theme will be continued in the next few posts.

To conclude this post here is an example from the Great Pyramid:

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Edited by zoser, 28 March 2013 - 08:44 AM.

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#3    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:39 AM

Protzen attempted to replicate this precision using a small boulder.

Here is the result:

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Enlarging the image it is easily possible to see the gap in the join.

Later using a team of 8 men he worked on 0.5 tonne block of andesite using steel hammers and chisels.

At one point they dropped the block nearly injuring team members.

Here is the result:

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My conclusion would be that whilst his attempt could hardly be described as abortive it is in no way comparable to the precision achieved in blocks many times heavier.  As previously stated he did use  steel tools to create the above example.

Edited by zoser, 28 March 2013 - 08:41 AM.

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#4    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:50 AM

Alfredo Gamarra who studied the Peruvian artefacts over many years asserted that the precision was achieved because they were able to soften the stone and then mould it into shape.  The possibilities of how this was achieved can be discussed later in the thread, however staying with the topic of precision for now,  just look at these few examples of where the stone blocks look to have been fused together:

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Edited by zoser, 28 March 2013 - 08:50 AM.

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#5    Emma_Acid

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:51 AM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

The premise being that primitive man (and I use that word deliberately since there is no evidence that say Inca or Aymara indians were able to achieve such things), had not the physical means to do this.  The evidence suggests that the primitive people at the time did not even possess knowledge of the wheel!

An utterly faulty premise.

Essentially, you're allowing two completely extreme ideas become absolute certainties, for the simple reason that you don't understand how they made their buildings - the first idea is that the civilisations were "primitive" (they certainly were not) and the second that alien technology must be involved.

If you think that is "undeniable evidence", you need to learn more about the nature of evidence.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#6    mcrom901

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:52 AM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Suggested sources where a lot of visual evidence can be found:

anything peer reviewed?


#7    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:54 AM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 28 March 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

An utterly faulty premise.

Essentially, you're allowing two completely extreme ideas become absolute certainties, for the simple reason that you don't understand how they made their buildings - the first idea is that the civilisations were "primitive" (they certainly were not) and the second that alien technology must be involved.

If you think that is "undeniable evidence", you need to learn more about the nature of evidence.

It's for discussion at this point Emma, not offered as an absolute certainty.

Here is what I wrote on the last thread before it was closed down:

No single piece of evidence available in the public domain as far as I know is ever likely to provide sweeping undeniable evidence of Ancient Aliens.  This includes everything from highly suggestive stone engravings (e.g The Ica Stones), to the pyramids, enlarged skulls, and even the precision megalithic stone structures of Peru and elsewhere.

So to expect any one piece of evidence to land the knock out blow is naive to say the least.

It is in my view the weight of evidence from a wide variety of sources that in the end will be telling.

So as I have repeatedly said before; there are no spaceships waiting in the sand to be dug up.  That is not to say that there are no exotic artefacts being with held from public scrutiny somewhere in a dark hangar though.


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#8    mcrom901

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:57 AM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

No single piece of evidence available in the public domain as far as I know is ever likely to provide sweeping undeniable evidence of Ancient Aliens.  

so what's with the thread title?


#9    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:58 AM

View Postmcrom901, on 28 March 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

anything peer reviewed?

Is that needed?  Have they themselves done sufficient work into this field?

For example have archaeologists carried out DNA testing on ancient skulls?  

Have archaeologists carried out an in depth analysis of the aspect of precision consulting stone masons and engineers?

I contend that this is still leading edge investigation work and no authorities have explored it in any depth yet.

View Postmcrom901, on 28 March 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

so what's with the thread title?

A collection of evidence that will build.  What the whole picture amounts to.

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#10    mcrom901

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:00 AM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Is that needed?  Have they themselves done sufficient work into this field?

For example have archaeologists carried out DNA testing on ancient skulls?  

Have archaeologists carried out an in depth analysis of the aspect of precision consulting stone masons and engineers?

I contend that this is still leading edge investigation work and no authorities have explored it in any depth yet.

you do know what an 'appeal to ignorance' is, right?


#11    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:06 AM

View Postmcrom901, on 28 March 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

you do know what an 'appeal to ignorance' is, right?

I prefer to tackle the thread from the aspect of 'what does the evidence of the stone work actually suggest' rather than what does the British Museum have to say about it all.

By all means quote sources here but looking at the stonework as an example I cannot see how it provides anything other than a compelling case.

It could well be that most of the investigation into this area has been carried out by independent investigators.

One such person is Chris Dunn a precision engineer.

I'm sure you have seen this site before so I won't post images from it.  To say that he was staggered by the precision of the granite boxes in the Serapeum would be an understatement.  Have a quick scan:

http://www.gizapower.com/Precision.htm

That the mainstream community has done so little investigation work on this does in itself warrant considerable thought.

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#12    seeder

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:07 AM

Lets hope this one stays open. I wont contribute much  if at all, and I certainly wont be derailing this thread, its where it finally belongs and I hope you have fun discussing it. Even tho I dismiss it of course. PP is an interesting site, but I dont attach any alien mystery to it as you know

One thing I will say on the subject is this. Because man has a lot of 'forgotten knowledge' in his history, this doesn't mean its a total mystery or connected to aliens

As a child, may old man used to crank start his car. For those who dont know this, all cars had a crank start! It was an angular handle you inserted in the grill of the car, and wound up, forcefully...to start the engine. Now anyone not from the 60's/early 70's wont know this. But its how cars got started! No-one talks of it anymore, except old timers or those with classic cars. It was THE way of doing things back in the day

Nowadays tho, who remembers? A hundred years from now, will anyone remember? But it happened, and it was true. Things just get forgotten... perhaps the truth of these mysteries is, that things were built in an odd way compared to modern understanding, but as with the crank start, it was THE way to do things in its day

Crank starting the car!

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#13    zoser

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:10 AM

View Postseeder, on 28 March 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

Lets hope this one stays open. I wont contribute much  if at all, and I certainly wont be derailing this thread, its where it finally belongs and I hope you have fun discussing it. Even tho I dismiss it of course. PP is an interesting site, but I dont attach any alien mystery to it as you know

One thing I will say on the subject is this. Because man has a lot of 'forgotten knowledge' in his history, this doesn't mean its a total mystery or connected to aliens

As a child, may old man used to crank start his car. For those who dont know this, all cars had a crank start! It was an angular handle you inserted in the grill of the car, and wound up, forcefully...to start the engine. Now anyone not from the 60's/early 70's wont know this. But its how cars got started! No-one talks of it anymore, except old timers or those with classic cars. It was THE way of doing things back in the day

Nowadays tho, who remembers? A hundred years from now, will anyone remember? But it happened, and it was true. Things just get forgotten... perhaps the truth of these mysteries is, that things were built in an odd way compared to modern understanding, but as with the crank start, it was THE way to do things in its day

Crank starting the car!


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Enjoy the other thread seeder.  I may pop in from time to time with some nice posts of ancient stonework!

PS it has a chance of staying open if people maintain high standards.  Please take that as you wish.

Edited by zoser, 28 March 2013 - 09:11 AM.

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#14    mcrom901

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:10 AM

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

I prefer to tackle the thread from the aspect of 'what does the evidence of the stone work actually suggest' rather than what does the British Museum have to say about it all.

and who are the experts who are going to review the 'data', yourself?

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

By all means quote sources here but looking at the stonework as an example I cannot see how it provides anything other than a compelling case.

translation: i will ignore all presented info and continue to spam away with pics i have no idea how to explain?

View Postzoser, on 28 March 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

It could well be that most of the investigation into this area has been carried out by independent investigators.

in other words, nothing independently verified by experts aka bs?


#15    awest

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 09:11 AM

Unfortunately, I am no expert on things like this, but I have witnessed a 5-ton rock lifted and put in place with nothing but a pulley system and a few people walking in a giant wheel. The innovation of some people back then was astounding to say the least and to outright deny people were capable of it because you or I can't do it is negligent as a researcher. Going at a problem with an end result in mind is not a good way to do research, that goes for people on both sides of the argument however, it is best to look at all the potential evidence and see where the evidence leads. Unfortunately second hand evidence that someone else has already drawn an opinion on is not good evidence, and I assume none of us have the experience or skills to do the research ourselves, so pretty much any argument would simply be conjecture. Either way some of it is intresting.

Edited by awest, 28 March 2013 - 09:12 AM.





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