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Bombs away in Israel & Gaza.. Again...


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#211    MichaelW

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 11:01 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 21 November 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

Hamas have actually stated that the goal of the rockets is primarily to show resistance and to spread fear throughout Israelis the way Israel does in Occupied Territories. Simply stating that you are going to blow up suicide bombs is in no way a more effective method of spreading fear than firing rockets that so often they impact the everyday lives of citizens.

And what better way to instill fear and dread into Israeli citizens than kill a few of them?

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Sorry, I apologise. I read recently there had been no deaths in 3 years. According to Wiki that figure is wrong, there had been 8.

Fine.

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And I didn't say there aren't for killing. I stated that killing was not their primary desired effect. Spreading fear and terror was.

Killing is just as an effective way to spread terror. Hence why most terrorist attacks have the primary objective of killing as many people as possible.

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The definition was given with regards to  German occupation. It was stated that because Germany still controlled the land, sea and air and the movement of the people of the country, they still technically occupied them.

Germany was occupied because the Allies actually had troops and such there controlling movements and such.

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There are many reasons for Gaza to still be defined as occupied.

And all of them are inside that head of yours.

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I have NEVER said that.

You have. Do you wish for me to extract said quote from a forum search?

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An entity? What are you talking about? I was referring, obviously, to the Israeli government.

Let's read what you said:

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So you would be of the view that Israel is a terrorist organisation?

Now, what part of that says the government? Hmm? I

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In your opinion they would be, but by definition, they are not.

I can't imagine that you would be of differing opinion either, given your posting history.

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But you see, using the definition of terrorism means that they cannot be defined as such. If they could be, every British, Israeli and American government that has ever existed, would be defined as terrorists.

Actually, it would depend on the actions they took. Would the administration of FDR for example be defined as terrorists?

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No one recognises it as the legitimate government of Palestine?

Some countries recognise it as part of the government, but none prefer it over Fatah, for obvious reasons. Hell, Hamas even says it has plans to create an independent Gaza controlled by them only.

http://english.alara.../31/229595.html

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They won a free and fair election for all the World to witness.

Point? Just because a government wins fair elections doesn't mean that its actions it did afterwards can be considered legitimate or democratic.

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They are recognised as the legitimate government of the Palestinians, almost worldwide (the U.S., "the EU" and Israel do not recognise them).

No they are not. The PLO are recognised as the sole representative of the Palestinian people and they are the ones that have diplomatic recognition by all of the countries that formally recognise Palestine as an independent state. The PLO and the Palestinian Authority get all the funding from international organisations such as the Arab League. Hamas get their support from Iran.

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#212    Professor T

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:33 AM

Ceasefire still holding..

This is promicing..

:)


#213    MichaelW

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:27 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 22 November 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

Ceasefire still holding..

This is promicing..

:)

I doubt it.

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#214    Professor T

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:15 AM

View PostMichaelW, on 22 November 2012 - 03:27 AM, said:

I doubt it.

Cynicism noted..

While a long term solution may be a long way off, stoping the bloodshed is a promicing start.


#215    Professor T

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:23 AM

Oh Cr.p..

Israeli military has confirmed that at least five rockets had been fired at Israel from Gaza since the implementation of the ceasefire. “We have counted five rockets fired from Gaza since 21:00 Wednesday,” the Israeli military's press service told Ria Novosti. “Three of them landed in Israel, while two were intercepted. We did not fire back.” Earlier Reuters reported that 12 rockets were fired from Gaza, citing a police source.

But at least the IDF havn't responded.. Good on em..


#216    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:05 AM

View PostProfessor T, on 22 November 2012 - 04:23 AM, said:

Oh Cr.p..

Israeli military has confirmed that at least five rockets had been fired at Israel from Gaza since the implementation of the ceasefire. “We have counted five rockets fired from Gaza since 21:00 Wednesday,” the Israeli military's press service told Ria Novosti. “Three of them landed in Israel, while two were intercepted. We did not fire back.” Earlier Reuters reported that 12 rockets were fired from Gaza, citing a police source.

But at least the IDF havn't responded.. Good on em..

They probably didn't fire back because they understand it wasn't Hamas.


#217    and then

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:20 AM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 22 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

They probably didn't fire back because they understand it wasn't Hamas.
Restraint is good up to a point.  But this is the pattern that led to an increasing volume from 2009 up until yesterday.  It seems Israel will either accept some rocket fire or go to full scale war.  Not much of a choice really.  Lose, lose.  Though I suspect that if more rockets trickle in after 24 hours the answer may be different.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#218    Yes_Man

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:50 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 22 November 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

They probably didn't fire back because they understand it wasn't Hamas.
It was but they didn't fire back because then the ceasfire will fail.


#219    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 04:58 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 22 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

It was but they didn't fire back because then the ceasfire will fail.

Hamas agreed to the ceasefire as well. How do you know it was them and not one of the many other groups operating in the Gaza Strip?

The reason I am sure it was not Hamas is because Israel did not retaliate.

During certain past ceasefires Israel has recognised that Hamas has held true to their end and stopped rockets, while also trying to stop others. They understand, however, that Hamas do not have the ability to stop every attack.


#220    Yes_Man

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 22 November 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Hamas agreed to the ceasefire as well. How do you know it was them and not one of the many other groups operating in the Gaza Strip?

The reason I am sure it was not Hamas is because Israel did not retaliate.

During certain past ceasefires Israel has recognised that Hamas has held true to their end and stopped rockets, while also trying to stop others. They understand, however, that Hamas do not have the ability to stop every attack.
Like I said if Israel retaliated then the ceasfire will fail


#221    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:19 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 22 November 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Like I said if Israel retaliated then the ceasfire will fail

If Hamas attacked then the ceasefire will fail also. What you talking about?

You said it was Hamas that fired the rockets. I disagreed, largely because Israel did not retaliate. Do you have proof that Hamas was responsible for the rockets after the ceasefire? Do you realise that a lot of the time it isn't even Hamas firing the rockets?


#222    glorybebe

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:21 PM

This is awesome!



http://ca.news.yahoo...-214301878.html


The simple photograph showed two men standing in midtown Manhattan holding cardboard signs.
One sign reads, "I'm Jewish and I am from Israel."
Another reads, "I'm Muslim and I am from Palestine."
Together the men hold a third sign: "Why can't we all just get along?"

*trying to get image to work.  It shows up in the message until I save the changes.  Follow the link to see it.

Edited by glorybebe, 22 November 2012 - 07:27 PM.

Save the Earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!

#223    Professor T

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:55 PM

I tend to think that israel didn't fire back because they knew that if they did (regardless of who pulled the trigger) the ceasefire would be ruined, and that is in no-body's best interest right now.

Ultimately though, while it is great that both sides are standing back from the brink, I don't think this is going to last unless even greater efforts are made to lift the blockade and for the world to put pressure on both sides towards creating a more permanent peace treaty. I'm talking pressure, not support... Egypt, USA, every nation should me feeding pressure to their sides of the conflict to create a permanent peace treaty, and to stop this BS on and off again war that has been going on since 1948.


#224    MichaelW

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:56 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 22 November 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Hamas agreed to the ceasefire as well. How do you know it was them and not one of the many other groups operating in the Gaza Strip?

You do realise that the Al-Qassam Brigade is the military wing of Hamas, right?

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#225    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

Indeed. But I am also aware that the two are not always in sync with each other. Besides, I was not referring to them in the above statement..





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