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Zimmerman trial


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#46    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:40 PM

Quote

Should zimmermon have been following him no, not after the 911 operater told him not to.

Technically, there is no floridan law saying you must follow what a 911 operator tells you...


#47    danielost

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Posted 20 June 2013 - 11:55 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 20 June 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:



Technically, there is no floridan law saying you must follow what a 911 operator tells you...

I didn't cite a law.  But, if your on the phone with a 911 operater it is usaully best to follow their instructions.  Note, I did not say always.

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#48    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:27 AM

View PostxFelix, on 20 June 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Then again, if he set the stage he cannot claim self-defense in Florida. He also did not defend himself. Trayvon's autopsy showed no signs of Zimmerman fighting back.. The only fight that occured was him pulling his gun and taking a single shot at Trayvons heart.

Btw: If someone were pounding my head against the ground because I threatened their life, I would fight back in an attempt to break free and run. Maybe i'd get an assault charge for it, but that's assault vs murder.... Id take assault.

He can claim self defense if he thought that Trayvon was trying to kill him. Neither you nor I know if that's the case. The fact that there were no wounds, indicative of George fighting back before the fatal shot, proves absolutely nothing by itself. It *could* show that Trayvon beat up George before he was shot.

How do you know that George "threatened" Trayvon's life? What did he do or say (before the fatal shot) to show that he planned to murder Trayvon? In any event, in the pounding scenario, you might not get the choice between hurting and killing. The next pound could be the last one.

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#49    regi

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 12:29 PM

There's plenty of bothersome (understatement) aspects about this case already in the record that I could go on about, but re: the struggle on the ground, I want to know what Zimmerman was ever doing with his hands.
There was screaming for a significant period- I think considering the circumstances, it was a significant period of time- and Zimmerman claims they were on the ground during all that screaming, and so what was Zimmerman doing, but just laying there... screaming? Seriously, what was the man ever doing with his hands during that time?
The only time he mentions using his hands was shortly before the gunshot... that he said tried to get Martins hand(s)? off of his mouth/nose?. Btw, I don't recall if he said he thought Martin was trying to shut him up, or if he thought Martin was trying to smother him. Maybe he meant Martin was smothering him in the process of attempting to shut him up, heck I don't know. (The man appeared to lose articulation when it came to conveying precisely the way events occurred that night.)


#50    docyabut2

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 02:32 PM

View Postregi, on 21 June 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

There's plenty of bothersome (understatement) aspects about this case already in the record that I could go on about, but re: the struggle on the ground, I want to know what Zimmerman was ever doing with his hands.
There was screaming for a significant period- I think considering the circumstances, it was a significant period of time- and Zimmerman claims they were on the ground during all that screaming, and so what was Zimmerman doing, but just laying there... screaming? Seriously, what was the man ever doing with his hands during that time?
The only time he mentions using his hands was shortly before the gunshot... that he said tried to get Martins hand(s)? off of his mouth/nose?. Btw, I don't recall if he said he thought Martin was trying to shut him up, or if he thought Martin was trying to smother him. Maybe he meant Martin was smothering him in the process of attempting to shut him up, heck I don't know. (The man appeared to lose articulation when it came to conveying precisely the way events occurred that night.)



Last night on HLM, there is a man witness number six on tape, saying he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman and Zimmerman was screaming help.


#51    FurthurBB

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:29 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 18 June 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

He shouldn't have followed Trayvon Martin. That's true. However, you and I don't know what happened after that. That's why we have a court system. It could be that George Zimmerman was forced to save his own life. It could be that he murdered Trayvon Martin in cold blood. Again, you and I don't know for sure, and it's up to a *fair, honest* jury to decide. I apologize if you have psychic powers.

The problem is that if he did follow Trayvon he created the situation in which anyone's life was in danger.  Even if Trayvon attacked him the stand your ground law is not the go looking for trouble and shot someone if you find it law.  Even when that kid brought a knife to school his lawyer had to show that he did not intentionally or otherwise cause the situation that led to the confrontation.  There was never any question of whether or not he believed his life was in danger.


#52    FurthurBB

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 18 June 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

Guilty of what? Feel free to be specific.

Well, if it is proven that Trayvon attacked him and he should be guilty of aggravated manslaughter because by following Trayvon he aggravated the situation which led to Trayvon's death.  If Trayvon did not attack him then second degree murder.


#53    FurthurBB

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:32 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 19 June 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

You don't know that. Yes, he shouldn't have pursued Martin, but he had a right to shoot him *if* Martin tried to kill him. That kind of self defense is allowed by all states and most countries. We don't know what happened, so we can't *fairly* pass judgment until we do.

It is true that you can defend yourself, but you cannot go causing trouble then kill people in any state that I know of, even Florida.


#54    regi

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 03:44 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 21 June 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:


The problem is that if he did follow Trayvon he created the situation in which anyone's life was in danger.  


:tu:


#55    regi

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 04:02 PM

I don't know how it works with that type of gun, so I wonder about the gun's safety mechanism.
I've never seen it addressed and from what I recall, Zimmerman, himself never addressed that issue.
Is there a reason it's been a mute point?


#56    docyabut2

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 10:36 PM

Well from what I get of  blockwatch captains they do follow supicious people in neighborhoods,Zimmermon did stop at the community center and called the police of a supicious person  wandering though the neighborhood.  Zimmermon  saw Martin standing in a  neighbor yard who was just robbed recently, Martin then came over to his car and walked around it and then went on through the passway.Zimmermon claims he got out of the a car to get a address in the passway ,when Martin  came back on him and beat him up, why did`nt Martin  just keep on going to get home, instead of confronting Zimmermon. Its a tragic thing that happen but they both created the situation.


#57    danielost

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:37 PM

View Postregi, on 21 June 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

There's plenty of bothersome (understatement) aspects about this case already in the record that I could go on about, but re: the struggle on the ground, I want to know what Zimmerman was ever doing with his hands.
There was screaming for a significant period- I think considering the circumstances, it was a significant period of time- and Zimmerman claims they were on the ground during all that screaming, and so what was Zimmerman doing, but just laying there... screaming? Seriously, what was the man ever doing with his hands during that time?
The only time he mentions using his hands was shortly before the gunshot... that he said tried to get Martins hand(s)? off of his mouth/nose?. Btw, I don't recall if he said he thought Martin was trying to shut him up, or if he thought Martin was trying to smother him. Maybe he meant Martin was smothering him in the process of attempting to shut him up, heck I don't know. (The man appeared to lose articulation when it came to conveying precisely the way events occurred that night.)

Zimmerman said travon had seen his gun and was trying to take it from him. So I would assume his hands were trying to keep control of his gun.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#58    danielost

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:41 PM

View PostFurthurBB, on 21 June 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:



It is true that you can defend yourself, but you cannot go causing trouble then kill people in any state that I know of, even Florida.

Following someone is not causing trouble.  Turning around to confront that person is.  Everyone forgets the girlfriends statement.  She tried to talk travon out of confronting zximmerman.  He was at the door he was headed for.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#59    danielost

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Posted 21 June 2013 - 11:46 PM

I was in that situation once.  I was the one walking done a block, trying to get home after work.  A guy came out and told me not to walk down that block or he would attack me.  I went home and called the police.  That was the end of that, after the police talked to him.
Zz

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#60    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 22 June 2013 - 02:17 AM

View PostFurthurBB, on 21 June 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:


The problem is that if he did follow Trayvon he created the situation in which anyone's life was in danger.  Even if Trayvon attacked him the stand your ground law is not the go looking for trouble and shot someone if you find it law.  Even when that kid brought a knife to school his lawyer had to show that he did not intentionally or otherwise cause the situation that led to the confrontation.  There was never any question of whether or not he believed his life was in danger.

It depends on the circumstances. George is not responsible for Trayvon repeatedly smashing his head into the sidewalk (if that's the case).

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