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Homosexuality, sin, choice or biology?

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2644 replies to this topic

#2641    Norbert the Powerful

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:00 PM

View Postthe L, on 02 August 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

I will let that to administrators to judge. But objective ones. Also about this insulting post.
I love the way you act all hurt when people tell you your arguments make no sense (even when people go to the trouble of compiling detailed lists of how they don't make sense), but your whole argument, such as it is, rests on telling people that they don't understand the subtlety of your argument.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


#2642    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 03:08 PM

Anyone who has frequent promiscuous sex is at increased risk for a number of diseases.  Also, those engaging in either anal or oral sex have slightly increased risk of cancer and significantly increased risk of unusual infections.

So what?  That we be aware of this and act accordingly is important, but the idea that God punishes us with diseases is abhorrent (and I think that is what an earlier message implied, rather to my disgust),

#2643    Sherapy


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Posted 02 August 2013 - 04:24 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 02 August 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

No .. I don't agree with that part. Labels are not that important to me, but I understand why people get defensive when their traditions are challenged. Unfortunately the gay community does not do a very good job of of bringing in the moderates on their side. Professional mild mannered people are not the face of the gay community. I am completely on the side of the gay community 100%. But their PR is horribly laking. And the honest  self reflection of the community is non existent.  Look at a few people in this very forum. With the exception of RATT, most are aggressive, condescending, and pit bulls for their views. I realize they have faced this themselves, but its counterproductive. Attacking religions are not going to bring the religious into the fold, and slinging inflammatory words like "bigot" every time someone isn't sure about how the feel about homosexuality and is truthful about  it is in way  being a bigot also.

I would like to see a gay leader have poise, logic, and solid charismatic leadership with an understanding that they are trying to change thousands of years of dogma. I would like to see this leader meet hard opposition with unemotional logic and understanding. I don't want to see her with a tung ring covered in tats or him with his speedos wiggling his ass in a parade. I want to be able to introduce my seven year old to him as a teacher and say son, this man knows about the struggle for equality and faceing adversity with grace. Listen to what he has to say because he will teach you about tolerance.

I want the gay community to succeed in all their goals, but I understand why L is uncomfortable giving kids to gay men to adopt, I understand his reluctance to let a minority take control of how we define things, I understand his desire for real data. He wants proof that giving a child to a gay couple ( especially men) is safe. I do to. Don't scream equality in our faces give us a peer reviewed study that can be trusted. I'm not Christian, I don't have theology in my way, but my passion is for kids. It's not 'normal' for two  gay men to raise a child, gay men have a higher tendency for mental illness and depression, dosnt matter the reason, it's a not about the gay men, its about the child. I want proof these men have over come these hurtles before I subject a child to it. I realize biological children of people don't get the same scrutiny, but it is what it is.

Watch, even though I have continually posted on this thread in favor of gay rights, somone might call me a bigot. I'm like MR. Walker who I respect very much. I'm  unswayed by popular opinion, or political correctness, or social pressures. Show me the data. All my pro gay opinions are based on cold hard facts. I consider myself a mild mannered libertarian with conservative leanings. Like I said I want the gay community to succeed, but they should reel in the whining, mudslinging, and flamboyance. Mild mannered intelligence people are not interested in drama.
This is precisely  what the gay community has done, to suggest that the gay community has no leadership because of a tattoo or a earring  reveals more about your limits then anything else. I am proud of what the gay community has accomplished, they have shown the world a lot about what it means to be tolerant and perhaps you can tell your son that what matters is the heart of a man, that he stands for what is fair, that he stands for equality are the things that are important not the clothes that he wears.
Prop 8 has been one hell of a fight and those that fought for gay rights have literally given a voice to a community that was shunned and treated as less then they are changing the world one mind at a time.


Edited by Sherapy, 02 August 2013 - 04:25 PM.

#2644    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:04 PM

View Postthe L, on 02 August 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

4.We need more indenpendent studies from several different states about higher rate of suicides. Because there might be link between sexuality and psychological illness. Therefore we cant put children under the risk and do social experiments with them.

There might be, but I sincerely doubt it, especially since we have rather compelling evidence that there is a link between being bullied, discriminated against, reviled, etc, and propensity for suicide.  There is no evidence that compellingly shows that children are 'under risk' with gay parents, so your 'social experiment' stuff is already underway and is way overwrought.  There is some evidence that children raised in lesbian households do the best, we should perhaps stop this social experiment allowing children to be raised by their biological fathers as they clearly may be also under risk, under your reasoning.


5. LGBT need to back off with idea changing traditional terminology.

No, they don't, not with terms that have already undergone several revisions such as 'marriage'.  Non-LGBT people who object to it need to get used to the idea that terms change over time and that language is not monolithic.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into"
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence" - C. Hitchens
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" - Richard Feynman

#2645    Waspie_Dwarf


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Posted 02 August 2013 - 05:42 PM

This topic has run it's course. It is generating hostility and bickering. It's time to put it to bed.


"Space is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-boggingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the street to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to space." - The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams 1952 - 2001

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