Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

old and new testament


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1    Ciraxis

Ciraxis

    I'm back until I get bored again

  • Member
  • 2,214 posts
  • Joined:13 May 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The stream

  • Heaven is a place where the trout are always rising.

Posted 06 June 2005 - 12:58 PM

After reading the bible, it seems to me that God goes through i big change.  In the old testament, God seems very wrathful and violent.  He seems to punish people, his people, a lot.  But then in the New testament he seems much nicer, like he has taken anger management  Is it just that jesus and his teaching are more the focus?  i am no bible scholar, nor do i profess to be one.  I just wondered if this stuck any one else, i'm not trying to pick a fight either.  It just seems like some of the things god asks of his people are questionable.  any ccomments anyone?


#2    101

101

    PA's Girl

  • Member
  • 4,992 posts
  • Joined:21 Mar 2005
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Florida

  • One half of the perenially, perpetually, purpotratedly, proudly, perfectly, placidly, pleasantly, purposely, presently promised couple to be on UM.

Posted 06 June 2005 - 01:26 PM

Ot The law

NT grace by the blood of Jesus

It is just how it is. But I understand what you are saying it is very different.  yes.gif

Posted Image


Just remember, you can do anything (that is physically possible) that you set your mind to.  All you have to do is believe in yourself.- Mako

#3    Q-La

Q-La

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 739 posts
  • Joined:08 Jun 2004
  • Location:conscious state 01

  • much to learn for a small cranium

Posted 06 June 2005 - 03:18 PM

Anyone still spanked by his/her mother here today?

Qrious at a healthy and happy level.
Examine and study the body
Analyse the mind
But the heart escapes scholarly devices

Verbal violence is the defense of those who think they know enough
You are what you choose yourself to be and you will find out who you are with what you do

#4    mako

mako

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2005

Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:40 PM

QUOTE
After reading the bible, it seems to me that God goes through i big change.

Could it be that it is mythology written by two different groups of people?

Our earth is degenerate in these latter days.  There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end.  Bribery and corruption are common,   Children no longer obey their parents.  Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching.
                    Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

#5    HowdyDoo

HowdyDoo

    Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 997 posts
  • Joined:19 Nov 2004
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Owensboro, Kentucky

  • "Mom, what is a human bean?"

Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:54 PM

Although the Bible was inspired by God...it was written by man.  (Anything touched by man is bound to have some errors and contradictions.)  Much of the Old Testament involved the history of the Jewish people.  It is colored by their beliefs, values, life experiences, etc.

The New Testament is a relating of accounts on the life of Jesus Christ.  Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies found in the Old Testament.  He also revised a few laws--he refuted the "eye for an eye" law of the Old Testament, along with saving the adulterous woman from stoning (a punishment outlined in the Old Testament).  He said it was more important what comes out of your mouth than what goes into it (in relation to the Jewish law of eating only Kosher foods.)  He contradicted the "keeping the Sabbath day holy" law by giving an example of a shepard who saves his drowning lamb on the Sabbath.  He gave the Pharisees and Sadducees hell for their religious propaganda.  In other words, he brought some common sense and compassion to the law as viewed by the Jews.

Your fundamentalist Christian will have a problem with this explanation, of course.   They believe the Bible is infallible and written only by God.   I still can't see how a fundamentalist can resolve this conflicting view of God as illustrated in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.    Realizing that even though the Bible is a wonderful tool on how to live your life, and a gift from God, it is only a tool.  The real center of Christianity stems from the community of people who believe in Him.  We are his Church and his witnesses.




"Don't take life too seriously...it isn't permanent."

#6    hyperactive

hyperactive

    abu gaia

  • Member
  • 5,691 posts
  • Joined:21 Mar 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:20 PM

here is the quick way to reconcile the two books

the OT speaks of the god of the jews..... and he did in that book what he did for his reasons, but failed (discrediting his almightyness) to wipe-out the forces of "evil"-in other words tribes that opposed his chosen tribes.

well, after trying the usual plague, flood, threat, baby-slaughtering, etc and seeing the futility of it all (darn pesky humans just don't know when to give up!) he decided on a new path!

enter the NT:
if you can't beat them, join them....
so the god puts on a new happy face and presents himself to the 'other people' and acts as mr. happy, loving, joy, peace be with you.  the niave follow this voice of 'serenity now' just like the rats followed the pied piper.  

thus we see the NT is the revealing of what a truly nasty manipulative deceitful beast the mono-god is.  further, the NT is the dark book, for it is the raising of 'evil' over 'good' by evil playing the role of good, if you consider the 'don't worry/be happy' message good.

but it gets better:
after a while, mr god starts for tire of this 'leading of the rats to their doom', and decides to give them a second chance.  to do so he sends another messenger named muhammad to give the final rant.

some choose to follow islam and live by the new rules of tyrany, which is accepted by the 'god', some still follow the original rules of the chosen tribe which pleases the 'god' to no end, and in the middle are the sacrifical lambs the the great tyrant will take great pleasure in tormenting for eternity.   happy.gif


"He who knows not and knows not he knows not, he is a fool - shun him.
He who knows not and knows he knows not, he is simple - teach him.
He who knows and knows not he knows, he is asleep - awaken him.
He who knows and knows that he knows, he is wise - follow him. "
Arabia


#7    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 25,419 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... No power in the verse can stop me...

Posted 11 June 2005 - 05:40 AM

The God of the Old Testament in many ways seems to be a vengeful God who smites when He feels like smiting and all that.  BUT -

If you look at the Old Testament through the Cross of Jesus one can see the unfolding of God's plan for mankind in history.  God's continual Love (yes, God shows Love in the OT) for His people and His heartache as they continually turn against Him.  As 101 pointed out, the OT was based on the Law.  The old covenant instituted at Sinai was supposed to show Israel how they can "get right" with God.  The unfortunate thing is that the Law is so complex and thorough that it is evident that no one can live by these standards.  Thus in a sense, the OT Law condemns humanity.  

Enter Jesus Christ and the New Testament.  God still constantly shows His Love for mankind, and mankind still continually rejects God.  Nothing new there.  But with the death of Jesus on the cross, justification by Grace is brought to the fore.  The OT Law, which condemns mankind is off-set by the saving work of Jesus.  The OT is there to show that we cannot get to God on our own.  The NT to show us how we can get to God.

Similarly, the punishment for disobedience is still the same in the NT as in the OT.  Death and punishment is still warned of in the NT.  It's not like the NT is full of lovey dovey happy thoughts.  We are warned that the end result of sin is exactly the same as what it was in the OT.

Anyway, I hope this is useful.  See you all,  





Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#8    antiaging

antiaging

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 449 posts
  • Joined:31 Jan 2005
  • Location:New Orleans, LA,

Posted 11 June 2005 - 06:48 AM

QUOTE(HowdyDoo @ Jun 6 2005, 02:54 PM)
Although the Bible was inspired by God...it was written by man.  (Anything touched by man is bound to have some errors and contradictions.)  Much of the Old Testament involved the history of the Jewish people.  It is colored by their beliefs, values, life experiences, etc.

The New Testament is a relating of accounts on the life of Jesus Christ.  Jesus came to fulfill the prophecies found in the Old Testament.  He also revised a few laws--he refuted the "eye for an eye" law of the Old Testament, along with saving the adulterous woman from stoning (a punishment outlined in the Old Testament).  He said it was more important what comes out of your mouth than what goes into it (in relation to the Jewish law of eating only Kosher foods.)  He contradicted the "keeping the Sabbath day holy" law by giving an example of a shepard who saves his drowning lamb on the Sabbath.  He gave the Pharisees and Sadducees hell for their religious propaganda.  In other words, he brought some common sense and compassion to the law as viewed by the Jews.

Your fundamentalist Christian will have a problem with this explanation, of course.   They believe the Bible is infallible and written only by God.   I still can't see how a fundamentalist can resolve this conflicting view of God as illustrated in the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.    Realizing that even though the Bible is a wonderful tool on how to live your life, and a gift from God, it is only a tool.  The real center of Christianity stems from the community of people who believe in Him.  We are his Church and his witnesses.

View Post



There is no problem. The character of God did not change between the testaments. It is the covenant between God and man that changed.
The Jews would not obey the old covenant, so a new covenant, (which has different laws) was prophecied to come with the Messiah, who is Jesus Christ. [Jer. 31:31]
Differences between the two covenants:
Parts of the Torah were abolished by the New Covenant. The requirement to do animal sacrifices for the atonement for sin has been abolished. The death of Messiah on the cross is now the sacrifice of atonement for sin.
Hebrews 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Hebrews 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Conscerning the Sabbath law, Paul said you should do what your heart tells you conscerning this. The requirement of resting on the Sabbath day has been removed by what Jesus said about the Sabbath. But if your conscience tells you that you should observe it then observe it.
Matthew 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift [it] out?
Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, [but] not to doubtful disputations.
Romans 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Romans 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Romans 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
9 of the 10 commandments must still be obeyed in the New Covenant.
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
It is still required for both Jews and gentiles in the new covenant to abstain from eating things sacrificed to idols (Paul explains why), and from blood, and strangled things, and fornication. [Strangled animals still have the blood in them.]
They wrote this to the gentile Christians:
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Acts 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, [Ye must] be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no [such] commandment:
Acts 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Acts 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell [you] the same things by mouth.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
Acts 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.
[Paul says something in Romans about if you believe something to be a sin, and do it anyway, to you it is a sin. So if your conscience tells you to not eat unclean animals, then don't eat unclean things as Paul says. - But you should know that this is not required in the New Testament, no matter what you choose to eat.]
Jesus declared all foods clean:
Mark 7:18 And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, [it] cannot defile him;
Mark 7:19 Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
These things are for Jewish and gentile Christians to refrain from doing:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
Drunkards and homosexuals don't go to heaven. Idol worshippers don't go to heaven.
I hope I further clarified what is allowed and what is not allowed in the New Covenant compared to the Old Covenant.

Words of wisdom from psalms, proverbs, ecclesiates, still apply in the New Covenant. The Old Testament prophecies about the future for the end times still apply in the New Covenant.


In the New Testament, Peter confronted Annanias and Saphira his wife about lying about the price of money they got for some land. When Peter told him that he had lied to the Holy Ghost, he fell down dead. His wife came in and also lied about the price of the land. Peter said that she would be carried out also. Then she fell down dead.

An angel smote King Herod with worms and he died because he did not give God the glory about one of his speeches. The people wrongly said he had the voice of a god and not a man, and he did not give God the glory.

So you see, God still punished in the New Testament.



#9    JMPD1

JMPD1

    Child of the Universe

  • Member
  • 6,022 posts
  • Joined:10 Mar 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:upstate New York

  • you want to know the answer? Hell, I'm still working on the question!

Posted 15 June 2005 - 09:56 PM

A lot of people have stated that the NT is about Jesus and how he fulfilled the prophecies of the OT.  Could anyone point me in the direction of exactly what prophecyies he was supposed to fulfill?

Quote of the Year 2006: HAY! I did more then just say I wanna be ina a man sammich! - SC

You have the right to remain silent.  You might want to think about exercising that right more often

Not Another Moment Lost To Seizures

#10    mako

mako

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,770 posts
  • Joined:13 Feb 2005

Posted 16 June 2005 - 11:53 AM

QUOTE
Enter Jesus Christ and the New Testament. God still constantly shows His Love for mankind,

As I pointed out on another thread:
It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority punishment or reward. In a nutshell, God had to kill Himself to appease Himself so that He would not have to roast us, His beloved creations in Hell forever. He loves us more than we can ever comprehend, but if we donít return His affections, He will make us regret it for eternity. Now that is AMAZING GRACE!  yes.gif

Our earth is degenerate in these latter days.  There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end.  Bribery and corruption are common,   Children no longer obey their parents.  Every man wants to write a book, and the end of the world evidently is approaching.
                    Assyrian tablet circa 2800 BCE

#11    GodsMessenger

GodsMessenger

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 113 posts
  • Joined:14 Jun 2005

Posted 18 June 2005 - 01:43 AM

QUOTE(Ciraxis @ Jun 6 2005, 07:58 AM)
After reading the bible, it seems to me that God goes through i big change.  In the old testament, God seems very wrathful and violent.  He seems to punish people, his people, a lot.  But then in the New testament he seems much nicer, like he has taken anger management  Is it just that jesus and his teaching are more the focus?  i am no bible scholar, nor do i profess to be one.  I just wondered if this stuck any one else, i'm not trying to pick a fight either.  It just seems like some of the things god asks of his people are questionable.  any ccomments anyone?

View Post



It is not God who changed, it's people who changed and became more intelligent and civilized. And empathetic. Sure there are still thowbacks to the cavemen. But as we learn to live together and tolerate each other and help each other, we understand the The SPirit of Truth and Righteousness is one of LOVE not WRATH.

The Golden Rule tells us now not an eye for an eye , but forgiveness for forgiveness. You reap what you sow. It is the same pronciple but the first is a negative application the second a posituve application.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users