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Fish cannot feel pain say scientists

fish pain sport angling

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#16    Technocrat

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:05 PM

I don't know if fish feel pain or not but consider this: All those anglers who carefully return the fish they catch to the river or lake, with very good intentions I'm sure, probably don't know that when a fish is caught and brought out onto land, unhooked and manhandled, the stress of this causes their immune systems to temporarily break down leaving them open to infections and diseases of different kinds. It is highly likely that most if not all fish returned to the water after this ordeal die within days or weeks.


#17    pallidin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

View PostMrSerendipity, on 14 January 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

I don't know if fish feel pain or not but consider this: All those anglers who carefully return the fish they catch to the river or lake, with very good intentions I'm sure, probably don't know that when a fish is caught and brought out onto land, unhooked and manhandled, the stress of this causes their immune systems to temporarily break down leaving them open to infections and diseases of different kinds. It is highly likely that most if not all fish returned to the water after this ordeal die within days or weeks.

I don't capture and release, I capture and eat. Yummmmm.....


#18    redhen

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:41 PM

Really, are we heading backwards to Cartesian skepticism? The same man who doubted everything, except that he exists?

"Descartes and his followers performed experiments in which they nailed animals by their paws onto boards and cut them open to reveal their beating hearts. They burned, scalded, and mutilated animals in every conceivable manner. When the animals reacted as though they were suffering pain, Descartes dismissed the reaction as no different from the sound of a machine that was functioning improperly. A crying dog, Descartes maintained, is no different from a whining gear that needs oil."

http://www.examiner....-rene-descartes

Lovely


#19    Abramelin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

Maybe if fish could only speak....

But even then it's still kind of hard to yell, "Fk !! That hurts !!" when you're hanging from your lower jaw on a hook.


#20    pallidin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Maybe if fish could only speak....

But even then it's still kind of hard to yell, "Fk !! That hurts !!" when you're hanging from your lower jaw on a hook.

They do "fish sign language" using their tail at that point.  :passifier:


#21    PlanB

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:54 PM

I've kept fish for a long time, and I can recall a few instances where they seemed to feel pain. Once, I netted a freshwater catfish from my aquarium and one of its barbs got stuck in the net. It was calm until I touched the seemingly tender spot by the barb when I was trying to free it.

Another time, I was nursing a koi fish that had an ulcer. Being pretty tame fish, they'll let you stroke them, or feed them by hand. Some will even let you pick them up out of the water if they're comfortable enough with you. While petting this fish in a nursery tub, I accidentally grazed the ulcer and it had a violent reaction letting me know not to do that.

Whether they feel emotion like Simbi was saying, I'm not sure. They will absolutely demonstrate fear. I know they're happy to see me, but that's because they associate me with food, which at the very least dispells the idea that they have little to no memory recall ability. There's a kit out there that will let you train goldfish to do stunts.


#22    WoIverine

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:52 PM

We had a beta for a while, he was the coolest fish. He would come right up to you and blow bubbles at anyone who stuck their finger in the water. If we flicked the surface of the water though he would get seriously p***ed off and try to fight us! He'd swim right up from the bottom and try to ram your finger lol. Awesome little fish!

Edited by WoIverine, 14 January 2013 - 07:55 PM.


#23    pallidin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostWoIverine, on 14 January 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

We had a beta for a while, he was the coolest fish.

You ate him, didn't you. Fess-up Wolverine.  :passifier:


#24    WoIverine

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:36 PM

View Postpallidin, on 14 January 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

You ate him, didn't you. Fess-up Wolverine.  :passifier:

A guy's gotta eat ya know. :innocent:

Actually, an ex attempted to clean his fish tank, which was glass, and she kind of broke it. My poor fish was accidentally caught in the glass shatter fallout. :cry:


#25    freetoroam

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostHuntrSThompsun, on 14 January 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I say, we hunt down the sharks. If we can feel them bite and they can't feel us, its a sweet deal. Why would we want sharks around anyway?
When the day comes where you live in the sea, then its your call for survival....too.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#26    Abramelin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:38 PM

View Postpallidin, on 14 January 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

They do "fish sign language" using their tail at that point.  :passifier:

Jim-Bob might think they wag their tails because they feel happy.


#27    freetoroam

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostMrSerendipity, on 14 January 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

I don't know if fish feel pain or not but consider this: All those anglers who carefully return the fish they catch to the river or lake, with very good intentions I'm sure, probably don't know that when a fish is caught and brought out onto land, unhooked and manhandled, the stress of this causes their immune systems to temporarily break down leaving them open to infections and diseases of different kinds. It is highly likely that most if not all fish returned to the water after this ordeal die within days or weeks.
my husband who is an avid angler says they do not die, and he says the proper angler does (should) not manhandle the fish. he says there are ways of catching fish without causing distress to them...................
personally,  I do not like it and is the only thing we disagree about, unless the fish is being caught for food.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#28    Starseed hybrid 1111

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:51 PM

thats a really good question there?in my opinion yes they could feel pain still.if its alive it could feel pain because its a living animal whether its brain is the size of grain,peanut or walnut lol.i mean what makes them so different than humans besides the obvious?as for the anglers well i respect them alot for taking care of the fish and making sure they have the most possible environments for the fish and nature itself.and that they still care fo the fishes health and etc.thank you guys.as for the research that says they don't feel pain i think thats all B.S JUST AN EXCUSE TO DO WHAT THEY PLEASE TO THE FISH.NEVER BEEN A BIG FAN OF SCIENCE AND IM NOT RELIGIOUS EITHER JUST TO CLEAR THAT OUT TOO.


#29    Timonthy

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

Awwww! The RSPCA are cute :passifier:

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#30    Einsteinium

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:57 PM

In my opinion we simply do not know if they feel pain, we do not know if they are even conscious to begin with! Remember that because you are a sentient conscious human being you project your feelings/emotions onto other animals because there is no way for you to know if a fish is consciously aware of pain. If you take evolution into account just because a fish swims away from a predator does not mean it is experiencing the emotion of fear, it could simply be a reflex that evolved because fish that had that reflex were more likely to survive, thus passing it on to their offspring. It does not mean that they actually FEEL pain, nor does it mean that they actually FEEL fear. We simply do not know, and we can speculate all we want, but the science is showing that it is unlikely they feel pain in a manner like we do simply because of their biology.

I think the jury is still out on this one - Einsteinium






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