1360 replies to this topic

[Leonardo]

Bavarian Raven, on 12 April 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

thank you for saying this.   one of the most rational posts i've read about this case in a while

the fact that Zimmerman got out of the vehicle to talk to the man does not make it ok for Martin to attack. simply getting out of your vehicle to talk to someone and/or asking why they are there does not constitute a crime. like (quoted above) it all comes down to who attacked who.

but eitherway, now that the media has spewed forth its lies/its version of events, he will never get a fair trial.  

It's a bit more complicated than that - complicated by the "Stand Your Ground" law.

Zimmerman followed/pursued Martin for some time, both in the car and on foot, before they actually confronted one another, and the witness testimony of Martin's girlfriend indicates Martin did not then attack immediately, but asked Zimmerman why he was following him [Martin].

If true, and we do not have Zimmerman's testimony of any conversation between them to confirm or deny this version of events, then this indicates Martin at least attempted to ascertain in a peaceful manner, why he was being followed. Dependent then on what response he received, and his current state of anxiety regarding the situation, the SYG law allowed for Martin to take matters into his own hands through physical force.

It is important to note that Martin had already, by running from Zimmerman when initially followed, exercised his duty by law to attempt to retreat from a potentially violent situation.

If Zimmerman's testimony - that he also retreated from Martin after their conversation, but Martin followed and attacked him - is true, or accepted as true, then Zimmerman has a case for self-defence. But only in that circumstance. However, as noted previously, by initially pursuing Martin, Zimmerman has to satisfy a much more stringent legal requirement to have his plea of self-defence accepted. I do not know if his testimony alone, without any witness corroboration or physical evidence of Martin pursuing him to attack, actually satisfies this higher requirement.

Edited by Leonardo, 12 April 2012 - 05:15 PM.

[Rafterman]

conspiracybeliever, on 12 April 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

That means nothing. Zimmerman pursued Martin. The evidence already shows that from the 911 call. He shouldn't have gotten out of the vehicle in the first place. I wouldn't need a 911 operator or a cop to tell me that. Common sense would have told me that.

Pursuing someone isn't a crime.

Neither is disregarding the advice of a 911 operator.

[Rafterman]

conspiracybeliever, on 12 April 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

No it isn't. By getting out of the vehicle he was pursuing Martin. Martin had no idea who Zimmerman was and why he was following him.

So if I'm walking down the street and I think someone is pursuing me, I am within the law to turn around and start kicking their ass?

[F3SS]

Rafterman, on 12 April 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

So if I'm walking down the street and I think someone is pursuing me, I am within the law to turn around and start kicking their ass?

Hell yea! It's the only logical choice. You take him down and bash his head off the concrete. Just don't be surprised when he pumps you full of lead.

[FurthurBB]

Corp, on 12 April 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

So he should have ran or called the cops. Having someone following you and getting out of their car does not mean you get to beat them near to death (as Zimmerman claimed). While Zimmerman following Martin is a factor into the case it is not the be all and end all. The key is who attacked who. Did Martin attack Zimmerman forcing him to defend himself or did Zimmerman just decide to shoot Martin.

I think there is also a third option which would still make manslaughter an option.  They got into a physical altercation that wasn't near as violent as Zimmerman made it seem and Zimmerman shot Martin because he had a gun, not because he feared for his life.  Edited to add that he knew the police would be there soon.

Edited by FurthurBB, 12 April 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[F3SS]

conspiracybeliever, on 12 April 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

And yes I do think Martin is dead because he is a young black man wearing a hoodie. I think Zimmerman would have reacted differently if it were a young white man in a raincoat.

http://www.theblaze....orruption-case/
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DEMANDED DISCIPLINE IN RACIALLY TINGED 2010 POLICE CORRUPTION CASE

How do your words taste? You sure do eat them a lot...
You see, George isn't racist. He also tutored black kids for free during weekends. Do some research before you draw such conclusions. You make everything tooooooooo personal.

[conspiracybeliever]

Is it for real, on 12 April 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

http://www.theblaze....orruption-case/
GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DEMANDED DISCIPLINE IN RACIALLY TINGED 2010 POLICE CORRUPTION CASE

How do your words taste? You sure do eat them a lot...
You see, George isn't racist. He also tutored black kids for free during weekends. Do some research before you draw such conclusions. You make everything tooooooooo personal.

That doesn't change my mind about anything. I stand by what I have said above. You people are searching for a way to justify this nut running around the streets playing cop and murdering someone that did nothing wrong. I have no reason to believe Martin was doing anything wrong. His father said he was going to get candy and he had candy. Give me a good reason for murdering him other than Zimmerman was out there with a gun playing cop, judge and jury. he killed someone doing something stupid and he needs to pay for it. There a lot of people in prison for doing stupid things and death wasn't the result. In fact there are a lot people in prison that don't belong there. Zimmerman does.

[Myles]

conspiracybeliever, on 12 April 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

That doesn't change my mind about anything. I stand by what I have said above. You people are searching for a way to justify this nut running around the streets playing cop and murdering someone that did nothing wrong. I have no reason to believe Martin was doing anything wrong. His father said he was going to get candy and he had candy. Give me a good reason for murdering him other than Zimmerman was out there with a gun playing cop, judge and jury. he killed someone doing something stupid and he needs to pay for it. There a lot of people in prison for doing stupid things and death wasn't the result. In fact there are a lot people in prison that don't belong there. Zimmerman does.

Yes, he killed someone doing something stupid (Trayvon).   Trayvon was planning his next crime and then attacked a guy trying to stop him.  

There is no reason to believe Trayvon was just a poor little innocent black boy.  There is more evidence that he was a volatile, drug abusing thief who was casing the neighborhood.

[F3SS]

conspiracybeliever, on 12 April 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

That doesn't change my mind about anything. I stand by what I have said above. You people are searching for a way to justify this nut running around the streets playing cop and murdering someone that did nothing wrong. I have no reason to believe Martin was doing anything wrong. His father said he was going to get candy and he had candy. Give me a good reason for murdering him other than Zimmerman was out there with a gun playing cop, judge and jury. he killed someone doing something stupid and he needs to pay for it. There a lot of people in prison for doing stupid things and death wasn't the result. In fact there are a lot people in prison that don't belong there. Zimmerman does.

You are the one playing judge and jury. You justify your theory that travon was killed only because he was black based on nothing deeper than your own unwarranted accusations. I didn't justify anything about the incident. I simply showed you that there is much information out there that shows he isn't racist. How can you stand by your statement that he was killed because he was black when time and again it's been shown that the only ones who think George is a race nut are the ones who believe what the MSM reported lied about.
The article I posted for you
He tutored black kids FOR FREE
NBC edited the 911 call intentionally to stir racism up. That was no accident.
NY Times called him white-Hispanic when any sensible being knows that isn't a classification.
The race baiters and the panthers have played judge and jury
Black members of congress have acted shamefully, irrationally and irresponsibly

Those are all the people you should be angry with. Your rhetoric is just as irrational and irresponsible.

[Socio]

Is it for real, on 12 April 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

You are the one playing judge and jury. You justify your theory that travon was killed only because he was black based on nothing deeper than your own unwarranted accusations. I didn't justify anything about the incident. I simply showed you that there is much information out there that shows he isn't racist. How can you stand by your statement that he was killed because he was black when time and again it's been shown that the only ones who think George is a race nut are the ones who believe what the MSM reported lied about.
The article I posted for you
He tutored black kids FOR FREE
NBC edited the 911 call intentionally to stir racism up. That was no accident.
NY Times called him white-Hispanic when any sensible being knows that isn't a classification.
The race baiters and the panthers have played judge and jury
Black members of congress have acted shamefully, irrationally and irresponsibly

Those are all the people you should be angry with. Your rhetoric is just as irrational and irresponsible.

This is an election year and racial divides between minorities and Whites is like vote insurance for the Left thus no doubt why the Left Wing media labeled Zimmerman a "White" Hispanic, why they have lied through their teeth and why they will run with this as far as they can go.

Also;

On the radio today they were speculating that this may not even make it past the arraignment phase, that the judge could dismiss the case then and there due to insufficient evidence.

That this could be really nothing more than a dog and pony show to ease tensions in the Black community.

[and then]

Socio, on 12 April 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

This is an election year and racial divides between minorities and Whites is like vote insurance for the Left thus no doubt why the Left Wing media labeled Zimmerman a "White" Hispanic, why they have lied through their teeth and why they will run with this as far as they can go.

Also;

On the radio today they were speculating that this may not even make it past the arraignment phase, that the judge could dismiss the case then and there due to insufficient evidence.

That this could be really nothing more than a dog and pony show to ease tensions in the Black community.

He could but the chances are very small,IMO, that he'd take that heat when it can be dumped on a jury.
And consider the uproar over the Casey Anthony jurors being kept anonymous just for a little while.  Imagine if the jurors here were to acquit because the law, as in that case, was just too ambiguous for a conviction on 2nd degree murder?  Riots and threats of violence against them would surely follow.  Don't think they can't be swayed by such things.....
I wish Z had the option of choosing his case to be heard by a judge versus a jury.

[glorybebe]

Affidavit says Zimmerman 'profiled' Martin

That doesn't look good for Zimmerman.

[Farmer77]

glorybebe, on 12 April 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Affidavit says Zimmerman 'profiled' Martin

That doesn't look good for Zimmerman.

Oh geeze of course he was profiled. He was a young male walking at night in a neighborhood he wasn't a resident of.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

[questionmark]

bigtroutak, on 12 April 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

Oh geeze of course he was profiled. He was a young male walking at night in a neighborhood he wasn't a resident of.

Nothing wrong with that at all.

Oh, you never go by foot to see your friends? That afraid of the big bad murderer?

[Farmer77]

questionmark, on 12 April 2012 - 11:47 PM, said:

Oh, you never go by foot to see your friends? That afraid of the big bad murderer?

If I were on foot at night in a strange neighborhood and a resident questioned me I certainly would understand, at least I wouldnt be surprised.

Again nothing wrong with profiling. Young males have higher incidents of property and violent crimes than most demographics, this was a young male in a neighborhood he didn't "belong" in , he wasnt a resident.

As far as profiling goes, DUH its a no brainer. Its a common sense thing not a racist thing.