Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Jesus was born years earlier than thought

pope jesus dionysius exiguus

  • Please log in to reply
125 replies to this topic

#76    Everdred

Everdred

    Ectoplasmic Residue

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 185 posts
  • Joined:10 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male

Posted 08 March 2013 - 12:13 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 07 March 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Don't take my word for it do your own research...the virgin birth, the resurrection, born 25th, the sun god etc etc..all attributes you can find in other deities from other religions.
Horus born 25th Dec born of a virgin 'Isis' star in the east, adored by three kings, was betrayed, crucified and resurrection after three days,
Attis
Krishna,
Dionysus  
Mithra and many many more all have attributes similar to those of Jesus.

You're just being misled by a stupid movie that falsified aspects of a bunch of different deities.  Take a moment to actually read up on those deities and you'll see how far off they all are, for example Horus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horus

Born of sexual intercourse with no similar details to Jesus.  How remarkable.  Repeat for other listed deities.


#77    ciriuslea

ciriuslea

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Joined:08 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • CHAMP20NS

Posted 08 March 2013 - 04:07 AM

View PostEverdred, on 08 March 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

Repeat for other listed deities.
  Dionysus
http://www.truthbekn...m/dionysus.html

krishna..
http://en.wikipedia....shna#Birth  etc etc

sure some embellishment and sensationalism is made by over zealous authors but I certainly don't dismiss the fact many deities share similar attributes, not every claimed similarity is an embellishment most are real.


#78    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 24,556 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... No power in the verse can stop me...

Posted 08 March 2013 - 06:38 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 07 March 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

Don't take my word for it do your own research...the virgin birth, the resurrection, born 25th, the sun god etc etc..all attributes you can find in other deities from other religions.
Horus born 25th Dec born of a virgin 'Isis' star in the east, adored by three kings, was betrayed, crucified and resurrection after three days,
Attis
Krishna,
Dionysus  
Mithra and many many more all have attributes similar to those of Jesus.
I've done the research, that's why I concluded that you've been reading too many conspiracy sites (or perhaps you've just watched Zeitgeist, or read Acharya S [same thing, Zeitgeist's quoted source for this section is Acharya S]).  Put it another way, go to any website that deals with the life of Horus or Krishna or Mithra, read up about their life, death, experiences, etc, and see if you can find the similarities yourself.  The only places you'll find the glaring similarities are on sites that are intentionally trying to link Jesus to all these other deities. Don't take my word for it, find a university, find the Ancient History department, and email an historian in Egyptology and ask for the historical basis for the claims of Horus being all the things you claim.  I did, and the email did not surprise me - they said basically that websites and authors such as this are untrustworthy and bear no relation to what historians know about Ancient Egypt.

* Note, Jesus was not born on December 25, the Bible does not tell us when Jesus was born, only later tradition suggested December 25.  But in any case, very little of what these conspiracy sites claim is backed up by solid historical analysis.  Read THIS SITE as just one example.  It's an overview of Mithraism.  Not a single thing here suggests anything such as what these conspiracy sites claim!

As I said, I've done the research.  Have you?


View Postciriuslea, on 08 March 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Dionysus
http://www.truthbekn...m/dionysus.html

krishna..
http://en.wikipedia....shna#Birth  etc etc

sure some embellishment and sensationalism is made by over zealous authors but I certainly don't dismiss the fact many deities share similar attributes, not every claimed similarity is an embellishment most are real.
Ah, "Truth Be Known".  You know Acharya S. is a lauhing stock in the historical community?  But as noted, don't take my word for it.  Email the professionals and find out for yourself.

Edited by Paranoid Android, 08 March 2013 - 06:41 AM.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#79    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,299 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 08 March 2013 - 09:49 PM

I agree PA, much of that catalogue of supposed similarities simply doesn't exist anywhere else except in yhose sites. So much so that there are no scholars within the academic community that give these similaities any credit whatsoever. They are dismissed, not because they aren't looking for those similarities, but because they don't exist in most cases.

On the other hand christianity is in part to blame for this problem as well, since it decided to incorporate alot of imagery and traditions into itself that once belonged to other religions. They did so in an effort to accomodate these traditions within other cultures, but as we can see that didn't work out so well in the long run.

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#80    ciriuslea

ciriuslea

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Joined:08 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Male

  • CHAMP20NS

Posted 09 March 2013 - 12:47 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 08 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

I've done the research, that's why I concluded that you've been reading too many conspiracy sites (or perhaps you've just watched Zeitgeist, or read Acharya S [same thing, Zeitgeist's quoted source for this section is Acharya S]).  Put it another way, go to any website that deals with the life of Horus or Krishna or Mithra, read up about their life, death, experiences, etc, and see if you can find the similarities yourself.  The only places you'll find the glaring similarities are on sites that are intentionally trying to link Jesus to all these other deities. Don't take my word for it, find a university, find the Ancient History department, and email an historian in Egyptology and ask for the historical basis for the claims of Horus being all the things you claim.  I did, and the email did not surprise me - they said basically that websites and authors such as this are untrustworthy and bear no relation to what historians know about Ancient Egypt.

* Note, Jesus was not born on December 25, the Bible does not tell us when Jesus was born, only later tradition suggested December 25.  But in any case, very little of what these conspiracy sites claim is backed up by solid historical analysis.  Read THIS SITE as just one example.  It's an overview of Mithraism.  Not a single thing here suggests anything such as what these conspiracy sites claim!

As I said, I've done the research.  Have you?


Ah, "Truth Be Known".  You know Acharya S. is a lauhing stock in the historical community?  But as noted, don't take my word for it.  Email the professionals and find out for yourself.
Ok I kinda asked for that, I haven't done half as much research as maybe I should, to be honest I really don't care if there is or isn't, I did watch Z and then proceed to look up a few claims which led me to people like Acharya S and other sites, I assume then that the origin of religion claimed by Z is fabricated too, that its the personification of the stars which led to tales being told about why and who they were...which then led to religion as we know it...Id like to think not all of Z was BS ?


#81    Paranoid Android

Paranoid Android

    ????????

  • 24,556 posts
  • Joined:17 Apr 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sydney

  • Paranoid Android... No power in the verse can stop me...

Posted 09 March 2013 - 06:59 AM

View Postciriuslea, on 09 March 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

Ok I kinda asked for that, I haven't done half as much research as maybe I should, to be honest I really don't care if there is or isn't, I did watch Z and then proceed to look up a few claims which led me to people like Acharya S and other sites, I assume then that the origin of religion claimed by Z is fabricated too, that its the personification of the stars which led to tales being told about why and who they were...which then led to religion as we know it...Id like to think not all of Z was BS ?
Yeah, most of it really is BS.  As Jor-el said, Christianity didn't help matters much by borrowing traditions from pagan sources (eg, December 25, or art and architecture) but borrowing tradition is not the same as borrowing theology, which is what these copycat Messiah claims revolve around.  The way I see it, if I cannot corroborate a claim made by the Christ-mythers using independent sources, preferably with ancient source material, then it probably is a lie.  I'm no historian and do not claim to be, so I rely on historians and their research, emailing them if necessary.

Take Horus, for example.  From memory about my research, the claim that he died and was resurrected did actually happen.  However, it wasn't a crucifixion (which is often cited as how he died), and it wasn't at the end of his life.  He was a child, and was bitten by a snake.  He died and his mother went and pleaded with Thoth (I think that's who it was, I could be wrong so don't quote me on that) who agreed that the child shouldn't die so young, and so the kid was given back his life.  Though it wasn't three days later as is claimed (I don't think any specific time was stated between his death and rebirth).

Horus also wasn't a virgin birth.  Isis and Osiris had full sexual intimacy in order to conceive the child.  The origin of the "virgin" concept is perhaps that Osiris did not have his real original penis.  In the story, Osiris had been killed by his brother Seth and chopped up into sixteen pieces and scattered throughout the land.  Isis found fifteen of them and reassembled him.  But she couldn't find the penis and so fashioned one from clay.  The clay penis worked just as well as the real thing because, well, she's a goddess and could do things like that.  So Isis and Osiris had sex with a clay penis and nine months later little Horus was born.  Not exactly a virgin birth, is it?

Moving to Krishna, it's claimed he was crucified.  Wrong.  According to Hindu tradition, Krishna was resting underneath a tree when a hunter came by and mistaking him for an animal shot him with an arrow.  Acharya S and similar ilk state that he was "pierced" and "nailed" to a tree thus hoping to obscure a hunting accident compared to being crucified.

Mithra.... well, hopefully you read the link I gave earlier that goes into detail about the Mithraic Mysteries.  That should cover any issue about Mithra that may be there.  Mithra did have origins in the stars, so there may be a link worth noting, but it's a very superficial link, nothing about 12 disciples being akin to the 12 signs of the zodiac, or the dying/resurrecting saviour claimed by Zeitgeist.

Anyway, as I said, I take these claims with a grain of salt unless they are corroborated by external sources, I don't ever take these people at their word.  No one should.  The information is out there to research each person for themselves.

Posted Image

My blog is now taking a new direction.  Dedicated to my father who was a great inspiration in my life, I wish to honour his memory (RIP, dad) by sharing with the world what he had always kept to himself.  More details, http://www.unexplain...showentry=27811

#82    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,299 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:36 AM

View PostParanoid Android, on 09 March 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Yeah, most of it really is BS.  As Jor-el said, Christianity didn't help matters much by borrowing traditions from pagan sources (eg, December 25, or art and architecture) but borrowing tradition is not the same as borrowing theology, which is what these copycat Messiah claims revolve around.  The way I see it, if I cannot corroborate a claim made by the Christ-mythers using independent sources, preferably with ancient source material, then it probably is a lie.  I'm no historian and do not claim to be, so I rely on historians and their research, emailing them if necessary.

Take Horus, for example.  From memory about my research, the claim that he died and was resurrected did actually happen.  However, it wasn't a crucifixion (which is often cited as how he died), and it wasn't at the end of his life.  He was a child, and was bitten by a snake.  He died and his mother went and pleaded with Thoth (I think that's who it was, I could be wrong so don't quote me on that) who agreed that the child shouldn't die so young, and so the kid was given back his life.  Though it wasn't three days later as is claimed (I don't think any specific time was stated between his death and rebirth).

Horus also wasn't a virgin birth.  Isis and Osiris had full sexual intimacy in order to conceive the child.  The origin of the "virgin" concept is perhaps that Osiris did not have his real original penis.  In the story, Osiris had been killed by his brother Seth and chopped up into sixteen pieces and scattered throughout the land.  Isis found fifteen of them and reassembled him.  But she couldn't find the penis and so fashioned one from clay.  The clay penis worked just as well as the real thing because, well, she's a goddess and could do things like that.  So Isis and Osiris had sex with a clay penis and nine months later little Horus was born.  Not exactly a virgin birth, is it?

Moving to Krishna, it's claimed he was crucified.  Wrong.  According to Hindu tradition, Krishna was resting underneath a tree when a hunter came by and mistaking him for an animal shot him with an arrow.  Acharya S and similar ilk state that he was "pierced" and "nailed" to a tree thus hoping to obscure a hunting accident compared to being crucified.

Mithra.... well, hopefully you read the link I gave earlier that goes into detail about the Mithraic Mysteries.  That should cover any issue about Mithra that may be there.  Mithra did have origins in the stars, so there may be a link worth noting, but it's a very superficial link, nothing about 12 disciples being akin to the 12 signs of the zodiac, or the dying/resurrecting saviour claimed by Zeitgeist.

Anyway, as I said, I take these claims with a grain of salt unless they are corroborated by external sources, I don't ever take these people at their word.  No one should.  The information is out there to research each person for themselves.

I would add that most of the connection between the heavenly bodies and their worship is taken from a book that was instrumental in creating the modern subject of Comparative religion. The Golden Bough by Sir James George Frazer was one of the earliest attempts to create a comparison between ancient beliefs and their more modern counterparts. It is an essential guide to making many links between various spiritual thoughts on magic and religion.

That being said, the accusation between the similarities of a number of pagan beliefs and Jewish/Christian belief are ancient in nature. We find these accusations throughout history and even in some exerpts of the bible itself. What is important to note is that most of these accusations are not based on fact but on perceptions.

One such accustation was the belief that christians were cannibals because they partook of the flesh and blood of their saviour. As one can see the perception from the outside has got nothing to with the facts themselves as are known in the eucaharist (Holy Communion).

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#83    Starseed hybrid 1111

Starseed hybrid 1111

    Apparition

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 326 posts
  • Joined:28 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:salinas,ca

  • "Take the Red Matrix pill" be your own authentic self neo

Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:42 PM

i have a simple word for the pope you devil are vatican popes are devils and demons lol


#84    KrowMax

KrowMax

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 103 posts
  • Joined:02 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Inside The Cave..

  • Evil Listen To Evil Ideas And Liars Listen To Lies

Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:25 PM

View PostAndromedan Starseed 333, on 13 May 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

i have a simple word for the pope you devil are vatican popes are devils and demons lol

lol.. :td: ..How can you say that the Popes are devil and demon?  If you don't have anything to say just shut up.. :gun:

                             Evil Person Listen To Evil Ideas And Liars Listen To Lies

#85    The Great Gatsby

The Great Gatsby

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 75 posts
  • Joined:04 Jul 2012
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:57 PM

Jesus Christ born before Christ? What is this? The Nexus of the Universe? I'm an atheist now, well done, Pope Whateverus


#86    regeneratia

regeneratia

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,746 posts
  • Joined:20 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:All my posts are my own views, my own perceptions. Will not be finding links for why I think the way I do.

  • It is time to put the big guns down now, Little Boys!

Posted 16 May 2013 - 03:44 PM

I just listened to a red ice podcast with Ralph Ellis. Wow, he has some amazing things to say about Jesus. The fact is, we really don't know who Jesus was, ... IF he was.

http://www.edfu-books.com/news.html

But from piecing together some information from different sources, I tie his theory to issues surrounding the Jordan codex.

View PostKrowMax, on 16 May 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

lol.. :td: ..How can you say that the Popes are devil and demon?  If you don't have anything to say just shut up.. :gun:

Tell that to the Argentinians who disappears so many years ago.

Truth is such a rare quality, a stranger so seldom met in this civilization of fraud, that it is never received freely, but must fight its way into the world
Professor Hilton Hotema
(quote from THE BIBLE FRAUD)

Robert Heinlein: SECRECY IS THE HALLMARK OF TYRANNY!

#87    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,299 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:24 PM

View PostAlex Smith, on 16 May 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

Jesus Christ born before Christ? What is this? The Nexus of the Universe? I'm an atheist now, well done, Pope Whateverus

It's called tradition verses fact.

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#88    Doug1o29

Doug1o29

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,528 posts
  • Joined:01 Aug 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:oklahoma

Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:19 PM

View Postciriuslea, on 03 March 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

Did Jesus even exist, he shares so many similarities with other 'characters' in other religions across the globe, its unreal...the sun god, born of a virgin, Dec 25th, the Resurrection etc etc..
At the Council of Nicea, the bishops couldn't agree on a birth date for Jesus.  To settle the issue, Constantine chose December 25th, Mythra's birthday.  Jesus' birthplace is also Mythra's birthplace.  Same story.

From Constantine's point of view, it didn't really matter when Jesus' birth was celebrated as long as Christians quit killing each other over the issue.  The issues the bishops couldn't agree on, Constantine settled by decree.  He used the power of the Roman state to force compliance, banishing two bishops who wouldn't concede.  It worked:  the council brought the warring factions together and restored peace.  But, to do it, the Kingdom of God was converted to Plato's Republic.  In return for unanimity and peace, Christianity sold its soul.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#89    Jor-el

Jor-el

    Knight of the Most High God

  • Member
  • 7,299 posts
  • Joined:12 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal

  • We are the sum of all that is, and has been. We will be the sum of our choices.

Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:50 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 16 May 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

At the Council of Nicea, the bishops couldn't agree on a birth date for Jesus.  To settle the issue, Constantine chose December 25th, Mythra's birthday.  Jesus' birthplace is also Mythra's birthplace.  Same story.

From Constantine's point of view, it didn't really matter when Jesus' birth was celebrated as long as Christians quit killing each other over the issue.  The issues the bishops couldn't agree on, Constantine settled by decree.  He used the power of the Roman state to force compliance, banishing two bishops who wouldn't concede.  It worked:  the council brought the warring factions together and restored peace.  But, to do it, the Kingdom of God was converted to Plato's Republic.  In return for unanimity and peace, Christianity sold its soul.
Doug

It wasn't only Mythra's birthday, it is a reference to the Winter Solstice and the Roman Feast of Saturnalia, which was one of the most important feasts of the time (presents and all). It was also known as Yuletide. As a matter of fact, this day or period of days was widely celebrated by most people in one way or another in most cultures, from the earliest of times in Mesopotamia.

The people of those times couldn't agree on a date because they didn't have the knowledge we have today, along with astronomical programs that allow us to see the night sky as it was 2000 years ago. Due to these advances we finally know when that date really was and then we are surprised as the bible confirms it for us in Revelation.

Jesus was born on 11th September 3 B.C

However there is one aspect of the Nativity that falls on the 25th December. On the 25th December, 2 B.C., 1 Year and 3 months after Jesus was born, the Magi arrived at the home of Joseph and Mary in Bethlehem. Jesus was just learning to walk and speak his 1st words.

On that night, Jupiter stopped in the heavens, South of Jerusalem, almost on top of Bethlehem,  mere 6 km away. This occurred due to something we call Retrograde motion, where a planet appears to stop and then reverse its course in the night sky. It just so happens that Jupiter's retrograde motion coincided with the 25th of December, allowing to seemingly stop over Bethlehem for two days, when the Magi were in Jerusalem in Herods' Palace.

As an example of retrograde motion I will post this image of Mars and its motion in the Sky...



Posted Image

And here is one of Jupiter and a number of other planets.... all of them stopping their motion in the sky.

Posted Image


Here is some further information on retrograde motion... Moving worlds, Wandering stars

Another interesting tidbit of information is that Jewish Hannukkah is also celebrated on or near this day, a day of giving gifts, so it appears that at least this part of the Christmas story is true. The Wise men did indeed come on this day to give their gifts of Frankincense, Myrrh and Gold among others.

Edited by Jor-el, 16 May 2013 - 07:19 PM.

Posted Image


"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#90    Doug1o29

Doug1o29

    Majestic 12 Operative

  • Member
  • 5,528 posts
  • Joined:01 Aug 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:oklahoma

Posted 16 May 2013 - 07:07 PM

View PostJor-el, on 16 May 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Jesus was born on 11th September 3 B.C
Don't know if we'd come up with exactly the same date, but we seem to be thinking along the same lines.  Thanks for your post.
Doug

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users