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EU referendum: Pundits mull future without Br

eu uk exit thanks for all the fish

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#16    Render

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:57 AM

Britain just has to make up its mind for once. All that hesitation is holding the EU back.
And the constant smugness doesn't help either. Britain is getting involved with the EU in all possible ways but still doesn't want to fully commit. The politicians realise they need the EU but to get votes they constantly send the message they don't. It's getting old. You can't have your cake and eat it two.


#17    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:06 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 01 October 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Now I wonder why Mr Kinnock would say that. :whistle:

Because if Britain came out of the EU he and his wife wouldn't be able to keep riding the EU gravy train which they have already pocketed £10 million from.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 02 October 2012 - 02:12 PM.


#18    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:10 PM

View PostRender, on 02 October 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Britain just has to make up its mind for once.

Once we get the referendum we demand then we will.  We'll vote to leave, then we can get on the lifeboat BEFORE the TItanic hits the iceberg.

Quote

All that hesitation is holding the EU back.

No, it isn't.  The EU straitjacket is holding Britain, and her, economy, back.

Quote

And the constant smugness doesn't help either.

When it comes to deciding not to join the euro we are well within our rights to be smug.

And when we leave the EU and join the big wide world and forge closer ties to the Commonwealth, an organisation about to overtake the EU in terms of percentage of the world's GDP, we'll be even smugger.

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The politicians realise they need the EU

The EU needs Britain more than Britain needs the EU.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 02 October 2012 - 02:11 PM.


#19    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:18 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 01 October 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

to be honest i hope britain doesnt leave the eu i hope they kick us out and start charging leveys on anything we import or export to/from them.

Judging by your avatar you're a lefty, and what you propose above is one of those silly lefty economic policies which anyone with half a brain cell can see will never work.

Tell me this.  Why on Earth would the EU start charging Britain to enable Britain to accept imports from the EU?

All Britain would so is tell the EU to get stuffed, refuse to accept its imports (a lot of which is second-rate anyway, such as its military equipment like the Eurofighters) and import superior goods from elsewhere like Americans Joint Strike Fighters.


Quote

after all after all the abuse we give europe .

Give some examples of this "abuse".

And considering hard-earned British taxpayers are paying millions on things such as making inefficient and lazy French farmers very rich through the CAP I think we're entitled to give the EU a little abuse from time to time.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 02 October 2012 - 02:19 PM.


#20    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:22 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 02 October 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I just see the country for what it is a massive compost heap

That's what happens when successive lefty liberal governments since the 1960s rule, and ruin, this once-great country.


#21    Br Cornelius

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:45 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 02 October 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

That's what happens when successive lefty liberal governments since the 1960s rule, and ruin, this once-great country.

:lol:

How much of that time were the conservative in power ?
Maybe a Fascist dictatorship would be more to your taste - those damn Tories are just to wishy washy hey.

The ability to deny reality marks the right wing out as a breed apart.


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Edited by Br Cornelius, 02 October 2012 - 04:47 PM.

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#22    keithisco

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 02 October 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Judging by your avatar you're a lefty, and what you propose above is one of those silly lefty economic policies which anyone with half a brain cell can see will never work.

All Britain would so is tell the EU to get stuffed, refuse to accept its imports (a lot of which is second-rate anyway, such as its military equipment like the Eurofighters) and import superior goods from elsewhere like Americans Joint Strike Fighters.



The "Typhoon" is NOT an import...stupid comment....Are you truly unaware of the Typhoons capabilities?? Rhetorical... of course you are  - it is the most advanced fighter of its type in the World:
In 2004, United  States Air Force Chief Chief of Staff GeneralJohn P. Jumper said after flying the Eurofighter, "I have flown all the air force jets. None was as good as the Eurofighter."

The JSF is NOT "American" it is a joint collaborative effort with BAe Systems the Prime Sub-Contractor!!!

You are clearly not informed by facts, but by the Sun, or whatever newspaper is currently supporting your own right wing, uneducated , beliefs...,


#23    spud the mackem

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:48 PM

View Postsmurf0852, on 02 October 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Well as far as WWII goes if we had sat back and watched Europe burn you can bet that we would have been next. Remember hitler considered our army destroyed in France so he turned his attention to the USSR .if we hadn't got involved the chances are he would have turned all his military might against us before he went east the result of which would have been our country's total destruction.
   Sorry mate I dont agree,Hitler started it all,and he was the first one to bomb Cities,London,Coventry etc, and he wasnt  a happy bunny when we retaliated,and of course The Battle of Britain,really shook him up,when we won that one,so he decided that we were too nasty to deal with,but we couldnt have defeated him on our own,but Churchill conned him into believing that we had a lot more to offer than we actually had,and the rest is History.I have no axe to grind with Europe,but we should have declined the offer to join at the start, like Norway,Sweden etc, and it did them no harm.Roll on Independence once more.We dont need Brussels telling us what to do.

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#24    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:42 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 02 October 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

The "Typhoon" is NOT an import...stupid comment....Are you truly unaware of the Typhoons capabilities?? Rhetorical... of course you are  - it is the most advanced fighter of its type in the World:
In 2004, United  States Air Force Chief Chief of Staff GeneralJohn P. Jumper said after flying the Eurofighter, "I have flown all the air force jets. None was as good as the Eurofighter."

The JSF is NOT "American" it is a joint collaborative effort with BAe Systems the Prime Sub-Contractor!!!

You are clearly not informed by facts, but by the Sun, or whatever newspaper is currently supporting your own right wing, uneducated , beliefs...,

The F22 Raptor, Eurofighter and Sukhoi T-50 are the top 3 fighter jets.

F22 Raptor strengths - Robust, small turning radius, stealthy and its cobra manoeuvre.
Sukhoi T-50 strengths - Robust, steathly, carrier capable, faster than the F22 and can fire its missles during supersonic flight (F22 cant)

The Eurofighter is a completely different kind of aircraft and you are right General Jumper rated it as the worlds best fighter jet. Its designed for dog-fighting using Britains and Germanys experience from WW2 aerial combat -
1. High cockpit and low rear profile allow pilot to see behind the aircraft.
2. The plane is highly responsive and the result is it flys like an extension to the pilot.
3..Light-weight agile, nimble and can pull off sustained high g-forces.
4. Crazy alpha rolls allow it to out manoeurve all other aircraft and cause mental confusion in a following pilot due to their hypnotic effect.
5. Voice controls capability, no cockpit dials but a complete HUD instead.


#25    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:18 PM

View PostRender, on 02 October 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

Britain just has to make up its mind for once. All that hesitation is holding the EU back.
And the constant smugness doesn't help either. Britain is getting involved with the EU in all possible ways but still doesn't want to fully commit. The politicians realise they need the EU but to get votes they constantly send the message they don't. It's getting old. You can't have your cake and eat it two.

I think you'll find that the british public made it's mind up years ago, but our undemocratic politicians have just turned a deaf ear.

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
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#26    keithisco

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 02 October 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

The F22 Raptor, Eurofighter and Sukhoi T-50 are the top 3 fighter jets.

F22 Raptor strengths - Robust, small turning radius, stealthy and its cobra manoeuvre.
Sukhoi T-50 strengths - Robust, steathly, carrier capable, faster than the F22 and can fire its missles during supersonic flight (F22 cant)

The Eurofighter is a completely different kind of aircraft and you are right General Jumper rated it as the worlds best fighter jet. Its designed for dog-fighting using Britains and Germanys experience from WW2 aerial combat -
1. High cockpit and low rear profile allow pilot to see behind the aircraft.
2. The plane is highly responsive and the result is it flys like an extension to the pilot.
3..Light-weight agile, nimble and can pull off sustained high g-forces.
4. Crazy alpha rolls allow it to out manoeurve all other aircraft and cause mental confusion in a following pilot due to their hypnotic effect.
5. Voice controls capability, no cockpit dials but a complete HUD instead.
I note that Mr Right Wing has not commented... probably too embarassed by his earlier comments.

The fact is that NATO is becoming equipped (conventionally) at such a pace that finally the EU and the USA should start to feel comfortable with their own forms of Democracy, we all just need to address National immigration policy to prevent those that are inimical to western democracy and to prevent them from becoming citizens "with an agenda


#27    shaddow134

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:31 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 02 October 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I think you'll find that the british public made it's mind up years ago, but our undemocratic politicians have just turned a deaf ear.
You wouldn't be referring to the referendum once promised but then cancelled because the politicians were worried that the English public would tie their hands up forever when we said no.We don't need the bureaucratic monster the EU has become...

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#28    Render

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:22 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 02 October 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

No, it isn't.  The EU straitjacket is holding Britain, and her, economy, back.

It's obviously a co-dependant issue, EU wants Britian for competitive reasons and to become bigger and better, and Britain needs the EU.
Just look at one of the most recent deals the EU is working on with South Korea, immense market possibilities there.
If Britain wants to do it alone again they'll lose a chance of that and it'll take years before they can set up their own relations to continue growing.
That's just fact.

Quote

When it comes to deciding not to join the euro we are well within our rights to be smug.

Well no, not anymore. If you wanna join in on all the deals with the EU and want to have more say into the policies of the EU then you simply have to fully commit. As i said, you can't have your cake and eat it two. Britain is profiting from all the good things the EU has to offer but doesn't want to put in the work. And is damaging the image of the EU along the way by being a sourpuss about it all.
"yeah we want the eu deals, but the eu isn't good mimimimi." That is not how it works and they have been doing this for years. It's really getting old.

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 02 October 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

I think you'll find that the british public made it's mind up years ago, but our undemocratic politicians have just turned a deaf ear.

But how much of that is due to being scared of change? Every average joe was against all the change the Euro would bring with it through the years, that diminished like it happens with all changes.
And how much of that is due to your politicians making it a false point that the EU is bad news to get votes from the public they've fooled into thinking Britain doesn;'t need the EU and is better of without it? All the while they are doing all kinds of deals with the EU and getting entwined with it more and more as they go.

Politicians feed the ppl all kinds of false information if they think it'll get them a vote.

Anyways, the referendum wouldn't come before 2014-2015 i assume. First Scotland has to decide on it wanting independancy or not. Then Britain could be redefined and then possibly they could look into a referendum.


The best thing would be for Britain and the EU to just redefine and clearly state their relationship once and for all so everybody can just move on and Britain can stop it's damaging campaign, for itself and for the EU.

Edited by Render, 02 October 2012 - 09:30 PM.


#29    smurf0852

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:27 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 02 October 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

Sorry mate I dont agree,Hitler started it all,and he was the first one to bomb Cities,London,Coventry etc, and he wasnt  a happy bunny when we retaliated,and of course The Battle of Britain,really shook him up,when we won that one,so he decided that we were too nasty to deal with,but we couldnt have defeated him on our own,but Churchill conned him into believing that we had a lot more to offer than we actually had,and the rest is History.I have no axe to grind with Europe,but we should have declined the offer to join at the start, like Norway,Sweden etc, and it did them no harm.Roll on Independence once more.We dont need Brussels telling us what to do.
sorry mat dut on this you are wrong we fought the germans in france before the battle of britain and before the bombing of the citys you mention .when we fought the german army in france we were defeated not because of the bravery of our troops but because the german army had better tactics and we had to retreat thus the mass evacuation at dunkirk.after that hitler (quite rightly in a tactical sense )assumed our army was beaten and it was most of our equipment lay in ruins in france and our proffessional army was decimated.
he then assumed it was safe to turn his attention to the USSR .if he had not attacked the soviets and turned all the resourses he threw at them against us we wouldnt have been able to stop him .the only reason the soviets were able to hold him off was there weather and they lost 10 million men fighting the germans.we would have been invaded and we would have lost our resistance to him would have continued through partisan actions and such but as a nation we would have fallen .to think otherwise is wishfull thinking .
the other point to ponder is would he have attacked if we stayed out of it ? i think he would he fought us in WW1 and blamed us for the humiliation germany suffered after WW1 so i think its a safe bet he would have.
we beat off the germans in the battle of britain and it was a tremendous effort by our overstreched airforce however if most of the german airforce wasnt in the east we would have been screwed .


#30    smurf0852

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:37 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 02 October 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Judging by your avatar you're a lefty, and what you propose above is one of those silly lefty economic policies which anyone with half a brain cell can see will never work.

Tell me this.  Why on Earth would the EU start charging Britain to enable Britain to accept imports from the EU?

All Britain would so is tell the EU to get stuffed, refuse to accept its imports (a lot of which is second-rate anyway, such as its military equipment like the Eurofighters) and import superior goods from elsewhere like Americans Joint Strike Fighters.




Give some examples of this "abuse".

And considering hard-earned British taxpayers are paying millions on things such as making inefficient and lazy French farmers very rich through the CAP I think we're entitled to give the EU a little abuse from time to time.
well we dont make anything anymore in this country thanks to thatcher so we import just about everything .i would put an import tax on stuff just because i could. europe doesnt need our money they wanted us to be part of a club but we have turned out to be the boisterous toff no one wants in a club because they are the dick of europe.
so i would tax everyone for importing to the uk and levy anything that was exported from the uk including financial transactions that way europe would get loads of money out of us and be able to laugh as we all went broke.





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