144 replies to this topic

[keninsc]

I've met a lot of people on line that claim to do all sorts of things, go out regularly in the woods and remote areas where someone has reported seeing "something". I recall once I'd come to know this fellow who talked a good one on the net. Then he sent me a picture of himself and if he wasn't 400 lbs and looked like the only exercise he'd ever gotten was the walk from the frig to the couch. And he talked about doing over night hikes into remote areas, after seeing the picture I figured he simply stopped the Winnebago where the pavement ended and set up his grill.

[evancj]

Night Walker, on 17 December 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

Fakery has always been around and is a vital part of the Bigfoot phenomenon both now and historically. It seems to be part of our human nature to do so. Have you never told a fanciful story as true or played a prank? What is your opinion of what should happen to fakers? What about those who (mistakenly or deliberately) promote fakes as real? What about storytellers?

Without fakers, showmen, and storytellers would there even be a Bigfoot phenomenon?

I say - MORE fakery! MORE showmanship! MORE storytelling! Is it not far more interesting to discuss and observe Ketchum's DNA circus than that of Sykes?

I would agree with this if we a knew it was just for ****$ and giggles, like the easter bunny & santa clause, but there are a lot grown adults out there who take this crap seriously and are teaching their children to mistrust and bash the science that counters their irrational beliefs.

I don't what the situation is in Australia but here in the states we are raising a generation of gullible idiots. IMO between the mind numbing reality shows, parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated, religion that want to teach creationism in pubic schools, and political BS lies, we are moving back to the dark ages in the fast lane.

Edited by evancj, 17 December 2012 - 05:24 AM.

[keninsc]

That's because we have an awful lot of people who don't care about finding facts because they like the fantasy better. Granted, fantasy can be fun but it isn't real.

[Sakari]

evancj, on 17 December 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

I don't what the situation is in Australia but here in the states we are raising a generation of gullible idiots. IMO between the mind numbing reality shows, parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated, religion that want to teach creationism in pubic schools, and political BS lies, we are moving back to the dark ages in the fast lane.

  


We need a plague, bad......

[JGirl]

cormac mac airt, on 16 December 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Which is alot like saying "If no one else will publish my paper I'll give it to a rag-mag, they'll publish anything".   This is not the kind of outlook that should be taken seriously IMO.

cormac

yeah that screamed out at me too

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

evancj, on 17 December 2012 - 05:22 AM, said:

I would agree with this if we a knew it was just for ****$ and giggles, like the easter bunny & santa clause, but there are a lot grown adults out there who take this crap seriously and are teaching their children to mistrust and bash the science that counters their irrational beliefs.

I don't what the situation is in Australia but here in the states we are raising a generation of gullible idiots. IMO between the mind numbing reality shows, parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated, religion that want to teach creationism in pubic schools, and political BS lies, we are moving back to the dark ages in the fast lane.

At the school I work in, we're fighting a possibly loosnig battle against the sylabus and the general apathy of socity in order to keep the kids' minds open. We've the advantave of bing an independent school so we can really forge our own path, to a degree.

[QuiteContrary]

Night Walker, on 17 December 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

Where are they now? Are they actually doing anything to bring such shenanigans to light other than raging about it anonymously on an internet forum? I've heard of punch-ups in car parks outside of Bigfoot Conventions between American Apers and Supernatural Bigfooters such is the depth of conviction. Yet both sides have traditionally engaged in fakery and storytelling (each supporting their own pre-conceptions of what Bigfoot is) and if neither side is actually right then they are both equally ridiculous...

I do have great admiration for the individual searcher from outside the broader Bigfoot-enthusiast community and have met a few locally. However, these people are not only few and far bewteen but also have minimal impact upon the broader Bigfoot-enthusiast community largely because they are not a part of it (their stories go largely unknown). Some keep searching on their own, some give up, some become part of the broader search:

Would your own assessment of "honest joes and janes" be different if they didn't appear likeable and so down-to-earth?

I know those who are honest in their belief (as far as I can possibly know) for whatever reasons, who do not like and are angry with the showmen and those who make money off of people with their shenanigans and those who hoax and who claim bigfoot is some alien or supernatural being and some have a strong dislike for certain footer scientists and film makers.

Simple as that.

I am not defending them or championing them. It is what it is.

I don't know what your reply was asking or pointing out, NW.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 17 December 2012 - 06:32 AM.

[keninsc]

I've often wondered how someone with serious monetary back up would fare among the current Bigfoot, so called, "experts". Someone who could simply go and do what needed to be done to find the creature. My guess is they'd not be received very well.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

keninsc, on 17 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

I've often wondered how someone with serious monetary back up would fare among the current Bigfoot, so called, "experts". Someone who could simply go and do what needed to be done to find the creature. My guess is they'd not be received very well.

Your solution really wouldn't be appreciated - "go shoot Bigfoot" might solve the mystery but would defeat the industry of "looking for bigfoot".

[keninsc]

Well, I wouldn't want to be responsible for the economic collapse of an entire industry.

[Night Walker]

QuiteContrary, on 17 December 2012 - 06:32 AM, said:

I don't know what your reply was asking or pointing out, NW.

I'm not sure either. Sorry. I'm intrerested in understanding the social side to it so I ask a lot of questions which sometimes goes nowhere.

I am also interested/wary of the term "serious researcher" which is bandied about a good deal by Bigfooters and their somewhat animated displays of anger directed at hoaxers by Bigfooters.

keninsc, on 17 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

I've often wondered how someone with serious monetary back up would fare among the current Bigfoot, so called, "experts". Someone who could simply go and do what needed to be done to find the creature. My guess is they'd not be received very well.

No, I think they would LOVE him/her just like when Tom Slick entered the foray to search for the Loch Ness Monster, Yeti, and Bigfoot in the 1950s and 60s. There were very few people searching for Bigfoot at that time so perhaps Slick's cash timely injection gave the fledgling field a boost. Might be worth looking into further...

Anyway, people with deep pockets still need local guides and who knows where those monsters are better than your local practicing cryptozoologist?

The problem with an individual or company pouring a heap of money into the search for Bigfoot is that they would inevitably seek a return on their investment. Then entertainment enters the equation - enchantment provides much higher returns than enlightenment and then we are right back where we bloody well started...

A recent example:

Adrian Erickson was the rich millionaire who spent a whole lot of money buying Bigfoot videos for his documentary, The Erickson Project. He has lost millions of dollars on his Bigfoot venture and doesn't appear to be making a comeback soon.

Since his financial troubles, most of it has to do with his flailing construction business, Erickson hasn't spoken much about his Bigfoot project and chances are the vision he had for the documentary will never be fully realized.

http://bigfooteviden...out-adrian.html


The Erickson Project Is Now Called The Ketchum Project

Somehow, we knew this day would come. Adrian Erickson has had it with Bigfoot and it now seems that Ketchum is holding the reins and now controls all of Erickson's Bigfoot footage. The collection of footage may contain a number of Todd Standing's videos as well as the famous Matilda footage.

http://bigfooteviden...now-called.html

[QuiteContrary]

The drama is so hard to swallow.

[Night Walker]

The drama is what Bigfoot is all about! And you don't need to swallow it in order to enjoy it. Kinda like bubblegum that never loses its flavour. Bigfoot Bubblegum - hmmm...

[keninsc]

Very true Night Walker, but now there is a whole industry built up around Cryptids. TV shows, magazines, on-line websites, travel and expeditions, seminars. Oh dear God, the nastiest argument I ever got into over at the BFRO was from one of their guys who'd been to two seminars, not just one but two and he was going on about these pictures which were obviously a double print of a bear. I was told there were no bear in Washington state. So I posted up a web page for the Washington state Wildlife resources department showing that there are bear in Washington state. So they told me there were no bear in that part of Washington. So I posted up a page from the local State Park warning hikers and campers to always be on the look out for......yep.....you guessed it, bear.

Ok, enough of that, fact is now you have a whole industry in place, so if a guy like a Tom Slick came along again and decided to underwrite a huge effort to get a Bigfoot, my guess would be they'd be treated like outcasts, shunned and be put upon for contributions. When there wasn't an industry in place then it was no big hair deal, now though? Jeez.

......but I like it when girls swallow. Oh wait........different thing.......never mind.......my bad.

Edited by keninsc, 18 December 2012 - 12:48 AM.

[QuiteContrary]

Night Walker, on 18 December 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

The drama is what Bigfoot is all about! And you don't need to swallow it in order to enjoy it. Kinda like bubblegum that never loses its flavour. Bigfoot Bubblegum - hmmm...

You know, for me it isn't.

I love the stories NW, the eye-witness accounts, descriptions and experiences.
I do not like the drama. The squabbling and power struggles and name-calling and pseudoscience and the "does she or doesn't she" etc.

I do not believe in the creature, so all this DNA tease, and habituation talk  and constant squabbling and whatever is ridiculous to me. And not the part I enjoy.

Yet I can still enjoy the stories (whether outright lies or "fish" stories or imaginings or misidentifications) and reading reports and looking at the images.