I am contemplating becoming a mason.

[Eldorado]

If you're lonely get a dog or a cat.

I agree! A masonic dog or cat, preferably. Only God knows what kinda handshake or pawshake you'd give though. (lol)

Edited November 19, 2012 by Eldorado

[monk 56]

Hi Shadowsot,

I think sometimes it is very difficult to structure irregular fringe masonry, some members are confusing, a widely held view within regular freemasonry is that Quatuor Coronati Research Lodge is a premier lodge and held in great esteem throughout the world of freemasonry, however one of the early masters was William Wynn Westcott who was heavily into Societas Rosicruciana, Theosophical Society and co-founded the Golden Dawn, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wynn_Westcott

Another early member of Quatuor Coronati Lodge was Walter Besant, his sister in law was Annie Besant, huge in Co-freemasonry and Theosophical Society, link below:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quatuor_Coronati_Lodge

Please note i'm not knocking but observing how irregular fringe masonry can get very cosy with regular freemasonry.

I'm a little uneasy about link below as i live in London:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Welcome_Lodge

[Simbi Laveau]

Am thinking maybe Expand My Mind was being sarcastic.

You never know on here. We do have scientologists on UM. They just don't advertise it .

[Eldorado]

You never know on here. We do have scientologists on UM. They just don't advertise it .

Aye, this is true... we also have the totally insane... as I'm sure you've noticed.

My fave is the shape-shifting hyrax.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Eldorado

[Simbi Laveau]

Aye, this is true... we also have the totally insane... as I'm sure you've noticed.

My fave is the shape-shifting hyrax.

I keep hearing about this hydrax .Where might I find it ?

[Eldorado]

I keep hearing about this hydrax .Where might I find it ?

They are everywhere! (hence the shape-shifting monicker)

[Coffey]

In this thread I keep seeing Savile labelled as a freemason. He was a life long Catholic that received a papal knighthood. Catholics are not allowed to join the freemasons. Do you think that he would have been awarded a papal knighthood if the Vatican knew that he was a freemason?

No? Why, because it was a big secret that was kept from the Catholic Church? Yet not long after he died some anonymous blogger revealed (lied) that he was a freemason to further their own anti-mason stance. Now it's a well known fact that Savile was a freemason on sites like Stormfront, Above Top Secret and David Icke's site.

I'm not one to stick up for Icke...... But he DID say all this about Savile years ago and everyone called him a liar and bad mouthed him for it..... Looks like he was telling the truth and I bet a lot of people now feel stupid.

Have you met any Freemasons? It's a boy's club... nothing more. I'd be more concerned with politicians running the country who all attended the same schools.

I think he ment it like that by the way he said they are part of somehting bigger that they don't know themselves.

Prince Philip has his own masonic lodge for example. Also was a VERY close friend of Savile's.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Coffey

[Eldorado]

I'm not one to stick up for Icke...... But he DID say all this about Savile years ago and everyone called him a liar and bad mouthed him for it..... Looks like he was telling the truth and I bet a lot of people now feel stupid..

Is there anyone who never had doubts about Saville? A millionaire but single man who professed a love of women yet never had a girlfriend?

Icke worked for the BBC (Boys Buggery Club) and is at least honest.

He may be mad but he is an honest madman. And not a public-schoolboy hypocritical buggering creep.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Eldorado

[Coffey]

Is there anyone who never had doubts about Saville? A millionaire but single man who professed a love of women yet never had a girlfriend?

Icke worked for the BBC (Boys Buggery Club) and is at least honest.

He may be mad but he is an honest madman. And not a public-schoolboy hypocritical buggering creep.

Agree with you there.

Good connection didn't think of that.

Did you watch "when louis met Jimmy"? He said a few wierd things in that program.

It's really chilling to know thta thye covered this stuff up and all the contacts he had.

I watched a video where he was in an interview on TV telling a story of how he brung a young girl to meet prince philip and it sounded seriously suspicious. But then it could have been innocent, just hard not to the worst after all this has come out.

(Boys Buggery Club) <---- Hahahaha

Edited November 19, 2012 by Coffey

[Insaniac]

I was recently reading a book called "When Pigs Move In" by Don Dickerman. It teaches about deliverence from demonic spirits and possession, and Don gives his testimonies and those from whom he has delivered. Anyway, the book gets into the Occult. Freemasonry, ancestral curses and so on.

In the book, it is explained that many Mason's have to take oaths when they join, and if they break them they suffer a punishment. Some oaths require drinking water (I think) from the top of a skull, and if you go against this oath, you become poisoned as the water will turn to poison as a punishment.

Some require sacrifice and depending on what degree you are in Freemasonry, if you go against their code and way of conduct, you can have a hand severed as punishment.

Basically, from what I'm reading, Freemasonry as far as the occult is concerned, is about Satanic sacrifice, pledges and oaths for a position of power and influence.

My advice? I wouldn't go that way if I were you, OP. Atleast not until you fully understand what you're getting yourself into.

[Keel M.]

I hope you figure out things for yourself, Seeker, instead of listening to this lot.

[White Crane Feather]

If you're lonely get a dog or a cat.

Not that kind of lonely

[Rlyeh]

I was recently reading a book called "When Pigs Move In" by Don Dickerman. It teaches about deliverence from demonic spirits and possession, and Don gives his testimonies and those from whom he has delivered. Anyway, the book gets into the Occult. Freemasonry, ancestral curses and so on.

In the book, it is explained that many Mason's have to take oaths when they join, and if they break them they suffer a punishment. Some oaths require drinking water (I think) from the top of a skull, and if you go against this oath, you become poisoned as the water will turn to poison as a punishment.

Some require sacrifice and depending on what degree you are in Freemasonry, if you go against their code and way of conduct, you can have a hand severed as punishment.

Anything to sell a book.

Basically, from what I'm reading, Freemasonry as far as the occult is concerned, is about Satanic sacrifice, pledges and oaths for a position of power and influence.

Go read some Harry Potter. Edited November 20, 2012 by Rlyeh

[White Crane Feather]

I want to give special thanks to the mason that answered.

I have decided not to join.

It's not that I don't respect them or even care to comment on the sex abuse issue. Those things unfortunately happen in every kind of organization.

One thing is the time issue. I don't like being tied to things or haveing extra responsibilities . I like to come and go as I please. I have designed a successful life with this in mind.

And that's pretty much it. I also don't think I could swear on a bible. I do not hold scripture up that high. I defiantly believe in a great spirit, but I'm sure Christianity probably dominates my local lodge.

I have meditated on it during the last few weeks. I asked for guidance and everyone's comments have been helpful.

Last night I had a dream. I was shaking hands with a thin angular looking man. He was using some sort of secret handshake. Something with his thumb and a bottom finger. I did not like the way it felt. He look at me and was almost angry that I did not respond properly. Then he would not let go of my hand but I woke up.

I woke up perfectly clear on the issue. I am so not a secret society guy. I tend to hate rules, and don't care much for ritual or secrets. Its not for me and I'd probably drop out anyway, and I could probably teach them a thing or two about mysticism.

Still this problem. I feel stagnant. I miss being a student and progressing towords something. I miss the interaction with others that are peers in persuit of something. I am a teacher and i spend all my time with kids and my adult students. I am the owner and head instructor of my environment so there is a seperation with most of the adults in my life. I don't know. Mabey cooking classes. I used to take a class every semester at the jr college just to still be in school, but now I feel so much older than everyone. I end up in classes with my own students. I sometimes wish I were involved with a church. That would be a lot of fun, but cringing during worship services probably wouldn't go over well. I have heard of a church that is nonspecific religion. Mabey I'll go check out what's going on over there.

Thanks everyone.

Edited November 20, 2012 by Seeker79

[monk 56]

Hi Seeker 79,

As you meditate, perhaps you only need to develop that within a good organization, perhaps Kundalini yoga meditation? Just a thought!

[White Crane Feather]

Hi Seeker 79,

As you meditate, perhaps you only need to develop that within a good organization, perhaps Kundalini yoga meditation? Just a thought!

Hi monk. Thanks for the suggestion. I might dive in to that just to see what the differences are. I know meditative, altered states, rising energy very well. I have often wondered if kundalini is different from what I know or just the same thing from a different culture.

[White Unicorn]

I want to give special thanks to the mason that answered.

I have decided not to join.

It's not that I don't respect them or even care to comment on the sex abuse issue. Those things unfortunately happen in every kind of organization.

One thing is the time issue. I don't like being tied to things or haveing extra responsibilities . I like to come and go as I please. I have designed a successful life with this in mind.

And that's pretty much it. I also don't think I could swear on a bible. I do not hold scripture up that high. I defiantly believe in a great spirit, but I'm sure Christianity probably dominates my local lodge.

I have meditated on it during the last few weeks. I asked for guidance and everyone's comments have been helpful.

Last night I had a dream. I was shaking hands with a thin angular looking man. He was using some sort of secret handshake. Something with his thumb and a bottom finger. I did not like the way it felt. He look at me and was almost angry that I did not respond properly. Then he would not let go of my hand but I woke up.

I woke up perfectly clear on the issue. I am so not a secret society guy. I tend to hate rules, and don't care much for ritual or secrets. Its not for me and I'd probably drop out anyway, and I could probably teach them a thing or two about mysticism.

Still this problem. I feel stagnant. I miss being a student and progressing towords something. I miss the interaction with others that are peers in persuit of something. I am a teacher and i spend all my time with kids and my adult students. I am the owner and head instructor of my environment so there is a seperation with most of the adults in my life. I don't know. Mabey cooking classes. I used to take a class every semester at the jr college just to still be in school, but now I feel so much older than everyone. I end up in classes with my own students. I sometimes wish I were involved with a church. That would be a lot of fun, but cringing during worship services probably wouldn't go over well. I have heard of a church that is nonspecific religion. Mabey I'll go check out what's going on over there.

Thanks everyone.

Good luck Seeker! Each has their own path to follow and I think you'll find what you are seeking

PS You would have made a good Mason though!

Edited November 20, 2012 by White Unicorn

[Insaniac]

Anything to sell a book. Go read some Harry Potter.

It's against forum rules to troll, Ryleh. If you don't like my opinion, thats fair enough, but you don't need to try to undermine me. Understand?... Can we be sensible adults?

Anyway, for anybody interested, here are some passages from the book "When Pigs Move In" by Don Dickerman, on Freemasonry. The speak mostly about penaltys and punishment for exposing their practices.

-- These are Don's words, not mine.

Humbly, I ask the Moderator's to leave this post as is. Granted, it gets graphic towards the end, but I believe this post could be very educational for those who are interested in Freemasonry, or the occult. Peace.

Don: "I don't condemn people who are Masons. I have many friends who made the choice to join. I do believe they made a choice out of ignorance. Most of them tell me "Aw, I never go. I just joined because someone asked me to and I thought it was an honor to be considered." Others say, "I thought it might help me in my business ventures and associations."

"I would like to see every believer free. I don't think folks who get involved in these occult organizations realize what they are doing, nor do they understand what curses they may have brought on their family and future generations. Selwyn Stevens of Jubilee Ministries in New Zealand has gathered some valuable information to help free people from the curse of Freemasonry. I share this with you and encourage you to prayerfully read through it. Let the Holy Spirit give you direction."

Information about various Degrees and Oaths taken:

Thirty-Third and Supreme Degree:

"The Thirty-Third and Supreme Degree of Masonry has secret passwords, and these words show up as demonic powers during a deliverence session. This ungodly oath includes calling Lucifer the great architect of the universe and refers to him as the universal fatherhood of God. This degree includes the cable tow around the neck, the death wish that the wine drunk from a Human skull should turn to poison, and the skeleton whose cold arms are invited if the oath of this degree is violated.

This degree also involves greed and witchcraft in the attempt to manipulate and control the rest of mankind. Also introduced in this degree are the three infamous assassins of their grand master: law, property, and religion."

Blue Lodge:

Every oath of Masonry invites unclean spirits and often brings curses upon future generations. The Blue Lodge oath involves the first or entered apprentice degree and especially affects the throat and tongue. Involved is the "Hoodwink Blindfold" and it effects the spirit, emotions, and eyes including confusion, fear of the dark, fear of the light, and fear of sudden noises. Results are often the blinding of spiritual truth, darkness of the soul, false imagination, condescension, and the spirit of poverty, that can be caused by the ritual of this degree.

There is the "usurping of the marriage" covenant by the removal of the wedding ring, the invoking of the secret word "Boaz" - the serpent clasp on the apron, the spirit of the python, which is brought to squeeze out all spiritual life, the ancient Pagan teaching from Babylon and Egypt, and the symbolism of the first tracing board. There is the mixing and mingling of truth and error. Mythology, fabrications, and lies taught as truth. The dishonesty by leaders as to the true understanding of the ritual, and the blasphemy of this degree of Freemasonry. Also included in Blue Lodge oaths is the presentation of the compass.

There is also the cable tow noose around the neck, resulting often in the fear of choking and possibly causing asthma, hay fever, emphysema, or any other breathing difficulty. There is the ritual dagger, or the compass point, sword or spear held against the breast, causing the fear of death by stabbing pain, the fear of heart attack from this degree, and the absolute secrecy demanded under a witchcraft oath and sealed by kissing the Volume of the Sacred Law. Included also is the kneeling to the false deity known as the "Great Architect of the Universe" revealed as Lucifer. Results often brings curses of the throat, vocal chords, nasal passages, sinuses, bronchial tubes, and the like. I have dealt with virtually all of these symptoms in deliverance sessions with folks who have Masonry in their ancestry."

Second or Fellow Craft Degree of Masonry:

"This includes the curses on the heart and chest, the ancient Pagan teaching and symbolism of the second tracing board, and the sign of reverence to the generative principle. Resultant issues are often emotional hardness, apathy, indifference, unbelief, and deep anger. The chest, lungs, and heart areas many times are healed when this is denounced."

Third or Master Mason Degree:

"The curses here show up in the stomach and womb area. The ancient Pagan teaching and symbols of the third tracing board are used in this ritual. Blows to the head enacted as ritual murder are known to result in the fear of death, false martyrdom, fear of violent gang attack, assault, rape, and helplessness, the falling into the coffin or stretcher involved in the ritual of murder. Hiram Abiff is introduced as the savior of Freemasonry. The stomach, gallbladder, womb, liver, and any other organs of the body can be affected by Masonry.

The demonic spirits of Tubal Cain and Maha Bone have shown up in many deliverance sessions I have directed. They are high-ranking Masonry territorial spirits. In a recent deliverance, demons who were present by permission of Freemasonry in the ancestry began to cry for help. The candidate said "I am hearing "Maha, Maha" over and over. I hear it like a cry for help.

There is the Pagan ritual of the "Point within a Circle," with all it's bondages and phallus worship. The symbol "G" and it's veiled Pagan symbolism and bondages, the occult mysticism of the black and white mosaic checkered floor with the tessellated border and five-pointed blazing star. The symbol "G" does not represent God, as some may tell you."

The All-Seeing Third Eye of Freemasonry:

"This includes Horus in the forehead and it's Pagan and occult symbolism and the third eye and all occult ability to see into the spiritual realm. Because of the false communions taken and the mockery of the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary, unbeleif, confusion, and depression are found as a result. This also results in fear of insanity, anguish, death wishes, suicide and death, anger, hatred, murderous thoughts, revenge, retaliation, spiritual apathy, false religion, and all unbelief, especially in God's Word."

York Rite:

"This includes the Mark Lodge and the mark in the form of squares and angles, which marks the person for life. There is the jewel or occult talisman that may have been made from this mark/sign and worn at lodge meetings. The Mark Master Degree, the penalty is having theright ear smote off, the curse of permanent deafness, and the right hand being lopped off for being an imposter.

Why is Masonry so secretive? Read very carefully the penalty of revealing their secrets as taken in vows. Past master penalty includes tongue split from tip to root, and of the most excellent master degree penalty: breast torn open and heart and vital organs removed and exposed to rot on a dung hill."

Holy Royal Arch Degree:

"This includes oaths taken and the curses involved in the Royal Arch Degree, especially the oath regarding the remonval of the head from the body and exposing the brains in the hot sun. Yes, you are reading correctly. It also includes the false secret name of "God" and worship of the false Pagan Gods Bul or Baal and On or Osiris. This degree also includes false communion or Eucharist, mockery, skepticism, and unbelief about the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross at Calvary. Many times healing of the brain and mind come when this is denounced and confessed as sin.

Just look at the curses involved in the Royal Arch Degree of the York Rite and the Select Master Degree. The penalty for telling the secrets is to have one's hands chopped off to the stumps, to have their eyes plucked out of their sockets, and to have their body quartered and thrown among the rubbish of the Temple."

"Super Excellent" Master Degree:

"It's curse is to have one's thumbs severed, eyes put out, body bound in fetters and brass, and conveyed captive to a strange land."

Knights Order of the Red Cross:

"It's curse or penalty is having their house torn down and being hanged on the exposed timbers."

Knights Templar and Knights of Malta Degrees:

"The Knights Templar & Knights of Malta degrees include vows taken on a Human skull,the crossed swords, the curse and death wish of Judas of having the head cut off and placed on top of a church spire, unholy communion, and drinking from a Human skull in many rites."

There are some more, but thats enough for now.

[DONTEATUS]

Just remember to not stick your tongue to the Frozen pole ! Words of wisdom ! THats a Free Mason run free ,run free Mason !

[Rlyeh]

It's against forum rules to troll, Ryleh. If you don't like my opinion, thats fair enough, but you don't need to try to undermine me. Understand?... Can we be sensible adults?

Did you even read the OP? Seeker is asking for any masons to to give their views on him joining. Instead you give some ridiculous BS you read.

There are some more, but thats enough for now.

Why are you posting unsubstantiated nonsense?

The author is inventing his own symbolism. "They do such-n-such, it really means this"

Sorry I can't take you seriously.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Rlyeh

[Likely Guy]

"When Pigs Move In" by Don Dickerman = a load of carp

Edit: I retract that statement. A load of carp is infinitely more valuable.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Likely Guy

[monk 56]

I would hold the middle ground between Insaniac and Rlyeh, and hope to heal the process, Rlyeh says read Harry Potter, not a bad idea, as it is highly likely that the book is themed on some real events regarding the esoteric genesis of the uk labour party and freedom for india, link below to some of my work, 3 pages:-

http://www.mauricefernandez.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1940&start=0

In fact the best report about aligning Sirius is on a Harry Potter link:-

http://www.harrypotterforseekers.com/articles/siriusforseekers.php

But we must note many masons died in revolutions especially in 1848 trying to bring democracy in to play, the majority of masons are passive, just watch the lodges that are involved in politics, a few lodges may cause chaos, but i wouldn't smear them all the same way!

Not only that, it isn't only some branches of masons that align to Egyptian stars, it is widespread at upper regions of religion and seems hermetic in belief. Obviously real skulls are used in some fringe branches, like Skull and Bones Society, not connected with regular masons, no doubt most of us will feel sick that a skull was used as a ballot box and not buried, link below:-

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34709352/ns/us_news-life/t/skull-linked-secret-yale-society-be-sold/

Another area that masons need to apply themselves is "FAZING OUT THE HAZING" please scroll down link below to "Only in America: Only Probation for Shooting Death During Hazing:-

http://hazingmasonic.blogspot.co.uk

This happened in Patchogue, New York, involving mason Albert Eid, William James wasn't able to see what was going on in this ritual, Albert Eid had a gun in each pocket, one was loaded, the other had blanks....you can guess what happened! All this happened in the basement of the lodge, that was littered by rat traps, a mock nine foot tall Guillotine, and a set up designed to mimic walking the plank while blindfolded.

I respect most masons, but some ancient customs that fringe groups adopt dont help you!

[Keel M.]

Insaniac, I am quite sure that my grandfather - a church-going, God fearing man - would love to know that he was actively involved in a Satanic group. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[blind pew]

I am a mason and unless you can totally without a doubt keep secrets to yourself, don't join. There are things I would love to tell but can't. Things that would blow you away.

[keithisco]

Just to claify a couple of points - bring them into focus:

1. Ordinarily you have to profess a belief in a Supernatural Creator (it is not specified what the belief has to be)

2. This does not apply to a specific Lodge in France which does not require this belief (it is still Mainstream Freemason)

3. As an entered Apprentice you will need to be able to recite some verses from the Old testament (1st to 3rd degrees), and to be able to describe the form and function of the various devices and paraphernalia to become a Master

4. You most certainly CAN request to join without any sponsor (at your meeting someone will agree to sponsor you - unless you are truly evil and gross)

5. You will have to pay Lodge Fees (these can be really quite large). You will not find any long - term unemployed, itinerant workers in your Lodge!

That's it for now, just a few thoughts to help you decide if this is for you. Just one more thing, becoming a 32nd Degree Mason does NOT take 32 years