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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#1936    Abramelin

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

View PostOtharus, on 13 November 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

You make it more complicated than it is.

" Angelara, zo heette (noemde) men tevoren de buitenvissers, omdat ze alleen met angel en kol visten en nimmer met netten."

"Angelara, so the 'seafishermen' (fishermen in the open water) were named in earlier times, because they only caught fish with angel (hook) or kol (lines), and never with nets."

(http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...rn=buitenvisser)

I make it more complicated??

I am the first one in 150 years who came up with this, lol, so excuse me if I doubt a bit.

And the name appears to be a German surname. You have any idea what that surname might mean?


#1937    Otharus

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:55 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 November 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

I am the first one in 150 years who came up with this, lol, so excuse me if I doubt a bit.
Of course you are excused.

Quote

And the name appears to be a German surname. You have any idea what that surname might mean?

LOL you mean Ange-Lara?

Angelara = hengelaren/ anglers


#1938    Abramelin

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:59 PM

View PostOtharus, on 13 November 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

LOL you mean Ange-Lara?

Angelara = hengelaren/ anglers

That is what I posted : Anglers.

But that is not the name I asked about.

It's "Bütefisch"

And when I Google, I only see the face of or documents about some Nazi, Heinrich Bütefisch, http://en.wikipedia....rich_B√ľtefisch

But his surname must mean something, right?

.

Edited by Abramelin, 13 November 2012 - 09:03 PM.


#1939    Van Gorp

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:15 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 November 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

That is what I posted : Anglers.

But that is not the name I asked about.

It's "Bütefisch"

And when I Google, I only see the face of or documents about some Nazi, Heinrich Bütefisch, http://en.wikipedia....rich_B√ľtefisch

But his surname must mean something, right?

.

Let me guess: Buiten-Vis? :-)

But about Angelaren all about, and Engelsen (Anglais) we have a clear view on where the name comes from:
den (h)Ang-el:

die hangt erbij (aan-ge-het), maakt een hoek (angle) en is de scherpe 'kant' (kent) van de zaak.  Engelen hangen ook in de lucht.
Romains/Greeks pronounced it quite well: Angelus/Angelos: Hangel-Is.


#1940    Abramelin

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:18 PM

Cheers.


#1941    Otharus

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 November 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

either the one copying the MS had some problems with his quill, or this is how the letter should look

The whole point about the RUN-script is that one can write fast and keep the pen on the paper as much as possible, so the ink can flow gently without making a mess. You will know if you have ever written with a dip-pen.

So I think your first guess is the right one, as this makes most sense IMO:
Posted Image
(in the last one I have exaggerated to make the direction visible)


#1942    Otharus

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:03 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 13 November 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Engelen hangen ook in de lucht.
Romains/Greeks pronounced it quite well: Angelus/Angelos: Hangel-Is.

As not unusually, OLB made me a suggestion to an etymology, more plausible than all existing ones.

[001/19]
THAT IK NÉN MODER NÉSA NAVT NILDE
THRVCHDAM IK APOL TO MIN ÉNGÁ JÉRDE
=> znw. letterlijk: enige; betekenis: wederhelft

[009/05]
AN STILNISE NE WÉNADON HJA NÉNEN ÉNGE TÁR
=> bnw. enige

[033/02]
IS THÉR ENG KWÁD DÉN [...]
=> bnw. enig

[041/18]
IS HWA FIF ÀND TVINTICH ÀND HETH ER NÉN ÉNGÁ
SÁ ACH EK MAN HIM UT SIN HUS TO WÉRANE
[...] NIMTH ER THÀN NACH NÉN ÉNGÁ [...]
=> znw. letterlijk: enige; betekenis: wederhelft

[042/03]
SAHWERSA ÀMMAN ENG GOD THETH (HETH) [...]
=> bnw. enig

[051/22]
THA PRESTERA SEND THA ENGOSTA HÉRA
=> bnw. enigste

[096/20]
ADELA IS THET ENGE BERN VSAR GRÉVET.MAN
=> bnw. enige

[102/14]
THERVMBE NE MÉI JRTHA SELVA NER ENG SKEPSLE NI SEDSA IK BEN
=> bnw. enig

[199/03]
SKÉPON THÉR HJA RÁVED HÀVE IS HJARA ÉNGE SKÀT
=> bnw. enige

~ ~ ~

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...b=ONW&id=ID2315

Tho sprag sancta Maria zo themo eingele so geheren.
nu woldik thaz the apostoli hir waren.
That se min plégen. ande min ende gesâgen.  
Toen sprak de heilige Maria tot de zo voortreffelijke engel:
"Nu zou ik willen dat de apostelen hier waren,
opdat ze mij verzorgen en mijn levenseinde aanschouwen.".
  
Mfr.Reimb. A, r. 455 Werden, Essen?, Noord-Oost Nederland, 1151-1200.

Tho her theses líues solde gewandelen,
tho wart sin sîele unt fangen uan godes êngelen.  
Toen hij (t.w. Lazarus) moest sterven,
werd zijn ziel ontvangen door Gods engelen.
  
Mfr.Reimb. A, r. 685 Werden, Essen?, Noord-Oost Nederland, 1151-1200.

Edited by Otharus, 13 November 2012 - 10:10 PM.


#1943    Van Gorp

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:14 PM

View PostOtharus, on 13 November 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

As not unusually, OLB made me a suggestion to an etymology, more plausible than all existing ones.

[001/19]
THAT IK NÉN MODER NÉSA NAVT NILDE
THRVCHDAM IK APOL TO MIN ÉNGÁ JÉRDE
=> letterlijk: enige; betekenis: wederhelft

[009/05]
AN STILNISE NE WÉNADON HJA NÉNEN ÉNGE TÁR
=> enige

[033/02]
IS THÉR ENG KWÁD DÉN [...]
=> enig

[041/18]
IS HWA FIF ÀND TVINTICH ÀND HETH ER NÉN ÉNGÁ
SÁ ACH EK MAN HIM UT SIN HUS TO WÉRANE
[...] NIMTH ER THÀN NACH NÉN ÉNGÁ [...]
=> letterlijk: enige; betekenis: wederhelft

[042/03]
SAHWERSA ÀMMAN ENG GOD THETH (HETH) [...]
=> enig

[051/22]
THA PRESTERA SEND THA ENGOSTA HÉRA
=> enigste

[096/20]
ADELA IS THET ENGE BERN VSAR GRÉVET.MAN
=> enige

[102/14]
THERVMBE NE MÉI JRTHA SELVA NER ENG SKEPSLE NI SEDSA IK BEN
=> enig

[199/03]
SKÉPON THÉR HJA RÁVED HÀVE IS HJARA ÉNGE SKÀT
=> enige

~ ~ ~

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...b=ONW&id=ID2315

Tho sprag sancta Maria zo themo eingele so geheren.
nu woldik thaz the apostoli hir waren.
That se min plégen. ande min ende gesâgen.  
Toen sprak de heilige Maria tot de zo voortreffelijke engel:
"Nu zou ik willen dat de apostelen hier waren,
opdat ze mij verzorgen en mijn levenseinde aanschouwen.".
  
Mfr.Reimb. A, r. 455 Werden, Essen?, Noord-Oost Nederland, 1151-1200.

Tho her theses líues solde gewandelen,
tho wart sin sîele unt fangen uan godes êngelen.  
Toen hij (t.w. Lazarus) moest sterven,
werd zijn ziel ontvangen door Gods engelen.
  
Mfr.Reimb. A, r. 685 Werden, Essen?, Noord-Oost Nederland, 1151-1200.

Otharus,

This is inspiring:
do you mean you sea also a meaning in Eng-elen as the 'only ones' (a bit like the choosen ones?, not the whole lot but the particular, enige-n, the ap-pointed ones)

When I look the the geography i can see Engeland is boarding to the 'Nauw of Calais', 'eng' also meaning 'nauw' -> like in being/having be-nauwd when you feel narrowed/enclosed/fixed?
Engelsen than related to the Eng(nauw)-land?


#1944    Otharus

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 11:19 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 13 November 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

do you mean you sea also a meaning in Eng-elen as the 'only ones' (a bit like the choosen ones?, not the whole lot but the particular, enige-n, the ap-pointed ones)

Yes, something like that.

Quote

'eng' also meaning 'nauw' -> like in being/having be-nauwd when you feel narrowed/enclosed/fixed?

I noticed that (in OLB) ENG / ÉNG in the meaning of "enig" (only) is consequently spelled with N+G (separate letters), while ENG in the meaning of "nauw" (narrow) is spelled with the special NG (single) letter.


#1945    Abramelin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:34 AM

View PostVan Gorp, on 13 November 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Otharus,

This is inspiring:
do you mean you sea also a meaning in Eng-elen as the 'only ones' (a bit like the choosen ones?, not the whole lot but the particular, enige-n, the ap-pointed ones)

When I look the the geography i can see Engeland is boarding to the 'Nauw of Calais', 'eng' also meaning 'nauw' -> like in being/having be-nauwd when you feel narrowed/enclosed/fixed?
Engelsen than related to the Eng(nauw)-land?

That is like what I have posted when making up a similar 'etymology': that 'eng' means 'narrow' (England = Narrow Land, because of its elongated shape). It's also what the old Frisians called the Strait of Gibraltar (see the post about Sylt in my blog).

The reader of the writing was
Freso, and he the wanderers chose
to be their king, or visible Uald.
But their troubles were by no
means at an end, and they had
many adventures before passing
through the Pillars of Hercules,
which the Frisians call "dit Nau."
Then they entered the Atlantic,
which they call "the Spanish sea."


http://oeralinda.blo...he isle of Sylt

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 November 2012 - 02:09 AM.


#1946    Abramelin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 01:44 AM

But you guys have nothing to say about what I posted concerning the Phoenicians and the Minoans/Mycenaeans.

Is all this just about Scrabble, or are you also interested in history, science and archeological finds?

Let me give it on a plate...

The Northwest Block theory, though disputed, offers some sort of support to the OLB.

Whatever was happening in that area, linguistically speaking, is still an enigma.

There are those who think that the language spoken was between PIE and Germanic, or that some still unknown language was spoken there, that the people living there moved to Italy, that the language was influenced (or even based on) Punic or maybe Minoan/Mycenaean, finds pointing to a Minoan/Mycenaean presence in that area, and so on.

.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 November 2012 - 02:02 AM.


#1947    Abramelin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:06 AM

View PostOtharus, on 13 November 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

The whole point about the RUN-script is that one can write fast and keep the pen on the paper as much as possible, so the ink can flow gently without making a mess. You will know if you have ever written with a dip-pen.

So I think your first guess is the right one, as this makes most sense IMO:
Posted Image
(in the last one I have exaggerated to make the direction visible)

And that's also why I posted this example of 'run script' :

Posted Image



And maybe you will remember my post about the Roman Tironian script:

http://www.unexplain...7

.
.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 November 2012 - 02:13 AM.


#1948    Abramelin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 02:55 AM

View PostOtharus, on 13 November 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

As not unusually, OLB made me a suggestion to an etymology, more plausible than all existing ones.


e-n-g, afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. ê-n-ich*

ê-n-ich* 50 und häufiger?, â-n-ich, ê-n-ig, a-n-g, e-n-g, afries., Pron.: nhd. ein
(Pron.), irgendein; ne. a (Pron.), any; ÜG.: lat. quis AB (90, 28); Hw.: s. ê-n; vgl.
an. einigr, ae. Únig, as. ênag, ahd. einÆg; Q.: R, W, E, H, B, AB (90, 28), AA 46;
E.: s. ê-n, *-ich; W.: saterl. ejnig; L.: Hh 20a, Rh 707b, AA 46; R.: ê-n-ig-ra handa,
ê-n-ig-ra hond-a, afries.: nhd. mancherlei; ne. something;

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-E.pdf


#1949    Abramelin

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 03:14 AM

To me this etymology of the name "Nehalennia" sounds a lot more sane and plausible than what the OLB had to offer, and at least it is based on history:

View PostAbramelin, on 13 November 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:


<snip>

The emerging Atlantic view and the potential exclusion of the Celtic origin from the North European Plain is screaming for a new assessment that relates Celtic and Germanic from the perspective of a western contact zone. The Germanic vocabulary might owe more from the west than previously conceived. Visualized by some examples, the Cornish/Welsh word lann or llan occurs frequently in place-names. Originally meaning “land”, it gradually came to mean “churchyard” and then “church” and “parish”. But how strong this original meaning ‘land’ can be confirmed to be embedded in the Celtic language? It could have been a Belgic loan, closely related or equal to Germanic “land”. In the Atlantic view the reverse might be true.

The Dutch river mouth mentioned by Pliny the Elder was called Helinium in accusitivus, what would probably indicate a Latin river name Helinius, consistent with the Latin ending -us that generally applies to rivers. Normally, -ius instead of simply -us would imply a derivation of a region called Helinus. In Frisia numerous toponyms feature the hel element, what Clerinx translates into “low lands, marsh” and subsequently connects to Brythonic “marsh” or “estuary”. Other Celtic etymologies have been proposed, like “salt” – probably inspired by now obsolete ideas that involve a Hallstatt origin of Celtic.

The Friso-Brythonic etymology does a much better job in addressing reminiscent Celtic features in Frisian, or the Ingvaeonic hemisphere as a whole. The implication would be that the -lin suffix might as well have been Germanic, distorted by Latin transcription issues. This intertwining of ancestral Celtic heritage and west Germanic loans and culture could be extended to the puzzling etymology of local goddess Nehalennia (also transcribed as Neihalennia), that now from a mixed local heritage easily translates to water-ghost (nikker ~IE *neig, to wash) of a region called Halennia – not unlike the latinized form Helinus deduced above. Since the description of the region delimited by Pliny between Helinium ac Flevum neatly corresponds to the historic region of Holland, I wonder if this is mere coincidence or that Holland indeed represent the ultimate indication of a lost Celtic heritage. This mixture could be symptomatic for the almost intangible potpourri that is might be implicated by the Nordwestblock or “Belgae” denomination. This may have been nothing but emerging West Germanic from a shared heritage.

<snip>




#1950    Otharus

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 07:21 AM

In Frisian mythology, 'Stavoren' is mentioned as the oldest and most important city of 'Friesland'.
It would have been named after the god or idol Stavo.

In Belgium there is a city Stavelot (German name: Stablo; Walon: Ståvleu).

In the North-French Pas-de-Calais area there is a city Étaples (In Dutch a.k.a. Stapel).
Portus Staliocanus from Ptolomeus' Geographica II-8? (Suggested by J. Vandemaele.)

In Greek Stavros (Σταύρος) means pole or cross. It is a common name for people and places.
(I can imagine the link between a tree or carved pole/ trunk and and the name for an idol.)

Stable and staple are related words.

~

Once one accepts that Friesland/ Frisia from the myths does not equal the current Dutch province Friesland,
that remains of old-Stavoren will not be found in nowaday Stavoren (same for Medemblik etc.),
and that the Gyganten (giants), the dragon and mermaid may have been metaphors (or added to entertain the audience),
the mythology offers many possible new views and starts to make much more sense.

It is understandable why they were rejected as merely fiction between the 18th and 20th century.
A revision will answer many questions.

~

New transcription of (part of) Okko Scarlensis here: fryskednis/okke-fon-skarl

Edited by Otharus, 14 November 2012 - 07:31 AM.





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