39 replies to this topic

[Emma_Acid]

the L, on 15 October 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

Not only does hair in people, including facial hair in men, provide an information highway reaching the brain, hair also emits energy, the
electromagnetic energy emitted by the brain into the outer environment. This has been seen in Kirlian photography when a person is photographed with
long hair and then rephotographed after the hair is cut

While I like the holographic idea, that post above is the biggest load of nonsense I think I've ever read.

[the L]

Emma_Acid, on 18 October 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

While I like the holographic idea, that post above is the biggest load of nonsense I think I've ever read.

Well if you say so...

[Ninhursag]

I absolutely loved the book Holographic Universe by Talbot .. Yes, he gets lost a bit in some weird examples but it sums the idea up pretty much ..

I suggest it to anyone who find the idea of the holographic universe interesting ..

[Seeker79]

I find thinking about black holes and perception interesting.  At an event horizon space is accelerating faster than the speed of light. Our own space has a place that is accelerating faster than the speed of light relative to us. If you could sit at an event horizon and look out, you would see the universe speed up. Indeed, the universe would speed up so fast at some point that you would see all of the future pass before your very eyes. Then, if there was a big crunch, you would see the entire universe collapse upon you. If it expanded forever, you would see everything go dark to an impenetrable void, until quantum fluctuations created another big bang or you leaked out in hawking radiation.

I find it highly likely that our universe is setting inside of a singularity and spawning others.  We already know it started with one, Mabey it never really expanded after all. Mabey it's just a perception issue brought on by something like tidal forces.

[Emma_Acid]

the L, on 18 October 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

Well if you say so...

I don't say so. Its demonstrable garbage. Beards emitting electromagnetic energy and being "channels to the brain"? Whoever wrote that needs to lay off the smokes. Hippie dribble. And it goes back to the Kirilian photography thing which is a well understood process and nothing to do with wiffley waffley new age energy.

[sepulchrave]

the L, on 15 October 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

What you trying to tell when you said that we cant project 3D crystal momentum on 2D surface without loosing info and that experiments shows info about electrons in crystal lattice? I think I didnt conclude well...

I was trying to break down some of the issues I have with the Holographic Universe idea in terms of simple physical systems.

So consider a perfect diamond: I think we can all agree it has a well-defined surface. Is all of the information about the diamond contained on the surface? Certainly the surface helps define the diamond (mathematically, it is obviously provides the ``boundary conditions''). But from an experimental perspective there is more to it. I can probe the behaviour of electrons inside the diamond, and I will find that distinct electronic states are partially defined by three components of crystal momentum; because the electronic states are in 3D space. If one of those components turned out to be random, or defined entirely by the other two, then the information of each electronic state could be contained - somehow - on the 2D surface of the diamond. But in general all three components are independent: choose any three arbitrary values for these components and you will be able to find some electronic state with that momentum.

In a non-magnetic system (like diamond) each electronic state has 4 components: three components of crystal momentum (usually denoted as k_x, k_y, k_z) and an energy (usually denoted E). However you only need to know three of these numbers to determine the 4th. In other words, you can arbitrarily choose any values for k_x, k_y, k_z and expect to find an electronic state with a particular energy E (or possibly a few states with different energies). You can't arbitrarily choose any value for all four components and expect an electronic state to exist.

This makes sense if you consider that a free parameter is the same as a dimension, and the diamond is ``really'' in 3D space. If the diamond were ``really'' just a 2D surface, then you would expect only two of k_x, k_y, k_z, and E to be arbitrary.

the L, on 15 October 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Why wouldnt my sponge skin be also projection?
Could we all be like Star Trek Hologram?

My argument here is just ``what is the surface a macroscopic object (like a person) is projected on''? A black hole has a very distinct surface (the event horizon). A human being does not. What is the difference between the 2D surface of an incredibly fine sponge and an actual 3D object?

the L, on 15 October 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

Seupul about your fraction link...isnt that search to grasp infinty?

Not really, I was just trying to address what I mention above in a different manner. On a molecular level, your body is a sponge; it is full of holes. On an atomic level, a molecule is mostly empty. On a subatomic particle level, an atom is mostly empty. But for your body to be a projection, it needs to have a surface - where is this surface?

You could argue that each subatomic particle is itself a 2D projection, and we are just composed of these projections, but in the Standard Model a subatomic particle (electron, quark, etc.) is a ``true point particle'', i.e. a 0D object. Elevating this object to 2D is... unnecessary.

the L, on 15 October 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Sepul can you explain me so that I could even understand Double-slit experiment. I read it twice and dont get it.

A bit off topic, but I will try.

A wave is a periodic travelling fluctuation of something. A water wave is a good example: a periodic travelling fluctuation of the surface of a body of water. All waves have parts that are higher than average (i.e. the crests of water waves), parts that are lower than average (i.e. the troughs of water waves), and parts that are exactly average (called nodes).

Two waves can pass through each other. When they do, they create interference. This interference can be constructive when two crests or two troughs meet in the same place and make the thing (i.e. the surface of the water, the electromagnetic field, etc.) at that location higher than it would be from only one wave alone, or the interference can be destructive when a crest meets a trough and the two (partially) cancel each other out.

If the two waves are coherent, that is they have the same frequency, then the interference pattern is constant. You can easily see this in a ripple tank (here they have two small paddles going up an down in synch to create the waves); note in the video there are straight lines where the water is basically flat; these are locations of destructive interference.

The double slit is just a technique for making light waves coherent. How can you tell if two lamps, lasers, or whatever are emitting light in synch? Basically you can't, so the trick is to take one lamp or laser and shine the light through two small slits. Each slit is effectively acting as a ``source'' of light, so you end up with two ``sources'' radiating light in synch, and the light waves can create constructive and destructive interference, just like the water in the ripple tank video mentioned above.

So IF light is a wave, then you should see an interference pattern on the other side of a double slit. (And you do! And you can do it yourself at home with a few easy-to-obtain items, see here. Note: the author of the video seems confused about what he calls ``single slit interference''; what he actually sees is called Fraunhofer diffraction - not interference.)

BUT, as quantum mechanics rather conclusively has shown, light comes in discrete packets called ``photons''. What happens if we use a very precise light source that only sends one photon at a time through the slits? (Unfortunately, this is NOT an experiment you can easily do at home.) Well, when they do that experiment the interference pattern still shows up! So clearly each photon is acting as a ``little wave'' and going through both slits at once, then interfering with itself on the other side. No problems so far!

BUT a photon is supposed to be an indivisible packet of energy, so what if we put energy detectors on each slit? Will we detect a ``half photon'' going through each slit?

The answer is NO. We only detect one photon going through a particular slit (and zero photons going through the other slit) at any given time. And suddenly, when we use this detector, the interference pattern vanishes! The photons are no longer acting like waves.

This is often described as ``observation changes reality'', which appears to be true (in many cases, not just the double slit).

However people often make the false assumption that ``observation'' implies ``a human mind'' or an otherwise ``conscious observer''. It is the detector that is doing the ``observation'', not the scientist. If the scientist turned the detector on, but put some tape over the detector display so he/she couldn't see which slit the photon went through, the interference pattern would still be gone. Unfortunately there is a lot of pseudo-scientific nonsense on the internet (not in the least from those ``Doc Quantum'' videos on Youtube) that perpetuate this concept.

The double-slit experiment is an example of wave-particle duality, a still-somewhat-unresolved branch of the philosophy of quantum mechanics, on which I can give more details if you want.

But in a nutshell, the double-slit experiment is as follows:

• When a single photon is sent towards a double slit without a detector to measure the photon at the slit, the photon behaves as a wave after passing through the slit.
  
• When a single photon is sent towards a double slit with a detector measuring the photon at the slit, the photon behaves as a [b]particle[/i] after passing through the slit.

[Jeremiah65]

If I could, I'd upload my copy so you all could read it.

Stanislov Grof had some fascinating discoveries in altered states of consciousness that Talbot's book only touches on.  I seriously suggest reading about him if you don't want to fork out the 10 to 15 bucks to buy Talbot's book.

There was also another theory briefly touched on and the ramifications are ..well...awesome.

They took mice and rats and systematically removed part of their brains...trying to find where memory is stored.  The removed more than what should allow for function and yet the rats functioned.  A hypothesis was generated that said perhaps...our brains do not store memories...perhaps the memories are stored "somewhere else" and our brains are just processing devices picking up on electrically stored data.  This would explain DejaVu and "ghost" phenomena.  That is a poorly worded description....read up on it...fascinating shiz.

The implicate and the explicate...I am going to (poorly) try to describe this.  The implicate is all the reality and physics you know.  Imagine a vast ocean.  A drop of water splashes up from it...this droplet is the implicate...it is the world we know...all the physics, mechanics, mathematics...etc.  The "ocean" is the explicate...it is all that is real that we have not explored, observed and or categorized.  It is possible through the explicate to create totally different laws of physics that absolutely do not apply to the understanding we now have.

OK...that was a horrible explanation but I didn't want to take 15 posts to the max to describe it.

The holographic universe is not as the title would seem...it is not about a false matrix of reality...it is about data and information....how if you take a holographic slide and slice it into pieces...each piece still contains enough data to produce the image...I know...hard to grasp...but do not let the title confuse you...we are not talking about Neo and the Matrix when we talk about the Holographic Universe.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 22 October 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[the L]

Jeremiah65, on 22 October 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

They took mice and rats and systematically removed part of their brains...trying to find where memory is stored.  The removed more than what should allow for function and yet the rats functioned.  A hypothesis was generated that said perhaps...our brains do not store memories...perhaps the memories are stored "somewhere else" and our brains are just processing devices picking up on electrically stored data.  

Hive mind?
Why memory wouldnt be spread trough all our nervous system?
Or in heart?

[the L]

Hi Sepul!
Thanks on your informatives posts.
All I can say on your post that I need more reading and learning in order to discuss with you. You are way out of my leauge in Physics debate.
But Im fast learner. Im sure we will soon discuss about  Physics. When Planck talked about Quantum people didnt know was he mad. Now physicists mentioned that in quantum world we have chance to walk trough walls. In fact we have chance to walk trough wall in macro world just chance is very poor.
Quantum theorists now spoke how we are in the same time here and in parallel univerese. And that we are now sitting in front of our computers as young L and old L in the same time. Young and old Sepul.
What stuns me the most is that we have one universe yet we have two theories. Now thats ...redicule.

...

So according to you do this theory/hypothesis have future? I believe not just want to clarify.

Edited by the L, 25 October 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Mr Right Wing]

the L, on 13 October 2012 - 09:55 PM, said:

Hello UMers.

Maybe this thread needs to be placed in science but since I want to ask spiritual and ET questions I decide its best to put it into Modern Mysteries.
I read once that researchers doing tests about quantum connection between person and person spitt. That they are not toghether but somehow connected. That man spits in one room and enter in another and then scientists start to puting burned ciggarets in mens spit and that they observed reaction in human who was in another room.  It was long time ago and I read it in one as I remember wierd Internet site.  

When people think of the occult they imagine weirdos on the internet who think that they're witches or vampires. In reality the occult is medieval science.

Back in the Middle Ages religion, science and philosophy were not seperate subjects. They were unified together and this is what the occult is. Because the boffins back then included religion and all those areas of philosophy which we've swept under the carpet in favour of material reductionism they had radically different ideas about how things worked.

They believed that two objects that have been in contact with each other retain a link even after they are seperated. In the Occult this is called the Law of Contact - http://psiknowledge....d.com/id29.html. In todays world the occult still exists and is found in the development of Quantum Mechanics. When it comes to atoms and other microscopic objects the Law of Contact has been demonstrated but they call the mechanism Quantum Entanglement - http://simple.wikipe...um_entanglement.

Anyway the reasons why your ancient ancestors believed in witchcraft and voodoo is based on the above links. They were conducting what today we call quantum teleportation between atoms but they believed it worked on people.

Imagine an object behaving as a probability -
1. If you receive no information on it then it remains behaving as a probability.
2. If you acquire information on it then it ruins the probability.

Easy yeah? So lets link two objects with one single probability (To do this a quality or property about them must be identical to each other).
1. If you receive no information on either of them then both remain behaving as a probability.
2. If you receive information on one of them you destroy the probability for both. The outcome of the probability for the measured object transfers to the one you didnt measure.

People overlook how probabilities work because at school you get taught that its just a bit of maths. Its only during a physics degree you get corrected as to the mechanisms built into reality such as probabilities. I have a few debates off my own on these forums saying that an object in a different room or far away location should be sufficently isolated as to induce quantum behaviour.

Quantum behaviour just means no information leakage to you so the object is definately, definately behaving as a probability.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 25 October 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[Rlyeh]

Mr Right Wing, on 25 October 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

They believed that two objects that have been in contact with each other retain a link even after they are seperated. In the Occult this is called the Law of Contact - http://psiknowledge....d.com/id29.html. In todays world the occult still exists and is found in the development of Quantum Mechanics. When it comes to atoms and other microscopic objects the Law of Contact has been demonstrated but they call the mechanism Quantum Entanglement - http://simple.wikipe...um_entanglement.

Anyway the reasons why your ancient ancestors believed in witchcraft and voodoo is based on the above links. They were conducting what today we call quantum teleportation between atoms but they believed it worked on people.

lol. Do you have any evidence ancient people possessed this kind of technology?

[Mr Right Wing]

Rlyeh, on 25 October 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

lol. Do you have any evidence ancient people possessed this kind of technology?

What technology?

Get your maths book out and read what it says about probabilities and sets. Its simple logic that two objects which share something identical about them and have one single probability based on that identical factor are linked. When the outcome of the probability is found for one object it must also be true for the other.

Its not rocket science but it does violate how you want to see the world because as you know two objects can remain linked by such a probability no matter how far apart they are.

Maybe you should have a look at boolean logic too. There are also ways two objects can be linked with that stuff.

[Rlyeh]

Mr Right Wing, on 25 October 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

What technology?

You said ancient people achieved quantum teleportation, so where is the evidence they possessed this kind of technology?

Save yourself some time and don't give me your usual quackery BS that isn't even an accurate description of quantum entanglement.

Edit: If an identical properity is all that is needed, you better tell the experimenters that their methods of creating entangled particles are redundant.

Edited by Rlyeh, 25 October 2012 - 01:37 PM.

[Mr Right Wing]

Rlyeh, on 25 October 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

You said ancient people achieved quantum teleportation, so where is the evidence they possessed this kind of technology?

Save yourself some time and don't give me your usual quackery BS that isn't even an accurate description of quantum entanglement.

Edit: If an identical properity is all that is needed, you better tell the experimenters that their methods of creating entangled particles are redundant.

I said ancient people had the 'Law of Contact' so stop distorting what I wrote.

An identical property and a single probability covering both atoms. And for your information that is what the physicists do.

[Rlyeh]

Mr Right Wing, on 25 October 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

I said ancient people had the 'Law of Contact' so stop distorting what I wrote.

This is what you wrote;
"They were conducting what today we call quantum teleportation between atoms but they believed it worked on people."

Prove they were conducting quantum teleportation.