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Civil War in Iraq?


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#1    and then

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 04:12 PM

http://worldnews.nbc...and-beyond?lite

Sunnis are beginning to literally butcher some Shias in the open - on camera - in Egypt.... 2000 have died in this ethnic clashes in a few months in Iraq.  If a Sunni/Shia civil war breaks out in Iraq it could be a staging area for conflict to play out between Iran and Saudi Arabia.  Frankly my concern is for the effect such a war would have on Israel first and foremost.  The tragedy of innocents being killed is with us daily in Syria and it is apparent a struggle that cannot be contained is well underway.  My fear is that if this ethnic slaughter gets too rabid the antagonists from both sides will turn on Israel as a way of hudna between themselves.  
Things are heating up, slowly but surely.

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#2    Ashotep

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:00 PM

Removing Saddam from power looks like was a big waste of time and life.  More people are being tortured and dieing there than ever.  You would have to be the lowest form of life to burn a child up in a car on purpose.

When a civil war starts in Iraq I'm wondering what will Iran and Saudi Arabia will do.  The middle east is not looking good.


#3    jugoso

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 05:04 PM

View Postand then, on 25 June 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

http://worldnews.nbc...and-beyond?lite

Sunnis are beginning to literally butcher some Shias in the open - on camera - in Egypt.... 2000 have died in this ethnic clashes in a few months in Iraq.  If a Sunni/Shia civil war breaks out in Iraq it could be a staging area for conflict to play out between Iran and Saudi Arabia.  Frankly my concern is for the effect such a war would have on Israel first and foremost.  The tragedy of innocents being killed is with us daily in Syria and it is apparent a struggle that cannot be contained is well underway.  My fear is that if this ethnic slaughter gets too rabid the antagonists from both sides will turn on Israel as a way of hudna between themselves.  
Things are heating up, slowly but surely.

So, in other words, you couldn´t give two sh*ts about what is happening now  with the Sunnis and Shias but only "your fear" of possible ramifications for the "chosen ones"?

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#4    and then

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 08:52 PM

View Postjugoso, on 25 June 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

So, in other words, you couldn´t give two sh*ts about what is happening now  with the Sunnis and Shias but only "your fear" of possible ramifications for the "chosen ones"?
Not at all.  And frankly I think that was a cheap shot, man.  I have agonized often in this forum over the plight of the innocents in Syria.  The difference between what is happening to them and what may potentially happen to Israelis is that the Israelis are not killing civilians in this conflict.  They did not start butchering other Jews just because of some difference in the way they worship.....  The conflict between Sunni and Shia is as old as the religion is, nearly.  If every Jew and Christian, Buddhist and Bahai on earth were removed, these folks would STILL be slaughtering each other in the name of their god.  They sound like warlike, hateful people to me.  But I'm sure that there will be a couple here who will be glad to explain - at length - why it's all the fault of the Jews...

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#5    jugoso

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:22 PM

View Postand then, on 25 June 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Not at all.  And frankly I think that was a cheap shot, man.  I have agonized often in this forum over the plight of the innocents in Syria.  The difference between what is happening to them and what may potentially happen to Israelis is that the Israelis are not killing civilians in this conflict.  They did not start butchering other Jews just because of some difference in the way they worship.....  The conflict between Sunni and Shia is as old as the religion is, nearly.  If every Jew and Christian, Buddhist and Bahai on earth were removed, these folks would STILL be slaughtering each other in the name of their god.  They sound like warlike, hateful people to me.  But I'm sure that there will be a couple here who will be glad to explain - at length - why it's all the fault of the Jews...
Sorry if you felt it was a cheap shot. To be honest, i don´t follow all your posts and therefore don´t know your position on what is happening in Syria. i do know enough about your position on Palestine to say that we disagree.  From your OP, it seems like all you are concerned with is potential risk to Israel with no regard to what is actually happening outside it. If you want to play the "what if" game, I´ve got tons of potential scenarios.

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#6    and then

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 09:54 PM

View Postjugoso, on 25 June 2013 - 09:22 PM, said:

Sorry if you felt it was a cheap shot. To be honest, i don´t follow all your posts and therefore don´t know your position on what is happening in Syria. i do know enough about your position on Palestine to say that we disagree.  From your OP, it seems like all you are concerned with is potential risk to Israel with no regard to what is actually happening outside it. If you want to play the "what if" game, I´ve got tons of potential scenarios.
I can see how my post could seem like that.  But I have been p***ed about the murder of civilians in Syria from the beginning.  The images of rows of children, slaughtered and left on the ground has infuriated and sickened me.  But the repetition of the stories has numbed me to their plight in some ways.  The adults in that region have decided to kill each other into submission and no amount of force seems to be able to stop them in their goal.  I am concerned about Israel - no apologies there - but that doesn't mean I am unable to have compassion for the old, sick, the children,  of such a horror as Syria has become today.

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#7    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:44 AM

I do not see that a civil war would have any great effect on Israel. A far bigger problem was Iran - Iraq war and that did not spill over to Israel. If there is a civil war, then certainly hot heads and groups looking to take advantage will make some mischief. But formost amongst these is Hezbollah, and they are rather tied up with events in Syria now. Look at this from military view. A failed state like Iraq fighting amongst themselves could potentially become a battlefield for an Iranian - Saudi war. But it is more likely, in my opinion, that this would be an excuse for America to become involved to fight alongside (Leading) Saudi and invading Iran. Iraqis fighting amongst themselves are not going to attack Israel, what with? they will be destroyed far more easily that unified states like Egypt, Syria and Jordan were. For Iran to attack Israel conventionally, then they first have to conquer Iraq, having defeated Saudi and USA of course. I see no possibility of some grand coalition, as you imply, of Iraq, Iran and Saudi. If it did occur, then that would be a bigger danger than all the other wars and I think we all know that Tehran, Baghdad and Riyadh would soon be smoking ruins. I think their hatred of each other is greater than their hatred of Israel, and I think they have more to fear from Israel than Israel has to fear from them. Any civil war in Iraq is the responsibility of USA, any unforseen events from such a war are the responsibility of USA. Still waiting for USA to come clean and actually tell the truth about the Iraq wars and why Saddam was removed.....


#8    Black Red Devil

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 07:16 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 26 June 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

I do not see that a civil war would have any great effect on Israel. A far bigger problem was Iran - Iraq war and that did not spill over to Israel. If there is a civil war, then certainly hot heads and groups looking to take advantage will make some mischief. But formost amongst these is Hezbollah, and they are rather tied up with events in Syria now. Look at this from military view. A failed state like Iraq fighting amongst themselves could potentially become a battlefield for an Iranian - Saudi war. But it is more likely, in my opinion, that this would be an excuse for America to become involved to fight alongside (Leading) Saudi and invading Iran. Iraqis fighting amongst themselves are not going to attack Israel, what with? they will be destroyed far more easily that unified states like Egypt, Syria and Jordan were. For Iran to attack Israel conventionally, then they first have to conquer Iraq, having defeated Saudi and USA of course. I see no possibility of some grand coalition, as you imply, of Iraq, Iran and Saudi. If it did occur, then that would be a bigger danger than all the other wars and I think we all know that Tehran, Baghdad and Riyadh would soon be smoking ruins. I think their hatred of each other is greater than their hatred of Israel, and I think they have more to fear from Israel than Israel has to fear from them. Any civil war in Iraq is the responsibility of USA, any unforseen events from such a war are the responsibility of USA. Still waiting for USA to come clean and actually tell the truth about the Iraq wars and why Saddam was removed.....

Don't hold your breath.  We might find out one day when GW decides to write a book with his memoirs on how he and Cheney managed to fool the rest of the world into believing they were fighting a Righteous cause while whopping in the billion$.  Oh, BTW, in his sequel he'll also tell us how they managed to annihilate a million people from existence and still make it appear Saddam's fault....

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#9    spud the mackem

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Posted 26 June 2013 - 08:06 PM

What is also quite worrying is the fact that the Sunni v Shia conflict could brew up in other countries that have accepted them as immigrants,and that is most of Europe,U.S.A,Canada,and Australia.

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#10    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 10:27 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 26 June 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

What is also quite worrying is the fact that the Sunni v Shia conflict could brew up in other countries that have accepted them as immigrants,and that is most of Europe,U.S.A,Canada,and Australia.
there are (or so I'm told) parts of Sydney where Sunnis wouldn't go for fear of having the **** kicked out of them and versa visa.
Every so often various groups who haven't assimilated fully into the Australian culture (we're a multicultural nation, on the whole we don't care if you don't speak English, or live in what amounts to a ghetto with people from your old homeland - the one thing we do ask is you leave the old prejudices at the door) get a head full of steam and get into a barney with "the old enemy". Soccer/Football ususally starts it and the Police usually stop it and doctors and chiropractors ususally benefit from the stoppage.


#11    DeWitz

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Posted 01 July 2013 - 03:30 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 30 June 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

there are (or so I'm told) parts of Sydney where Sunnis wouldn't go for fear of having the **** kicked out of them and versa visa.
Every so often various groups who haven't assimilated fully into the Australian culture (we're a multicultural nation, on the whole we don't care if you don't speak English, or live in what amounts to a ghetto with people from your old homeland - the one thing we do ask is you leave the old prejudices at the door) get a head full of steam and get into a barney with "the old enemy". Soccer/Football ususally starts it and the Police usually stop it and doctors and chiropractors ususally benefit from the stoppage.

In some nations (The Netherlands, Germany, Sweden) such interncecine warfare has been carried out by proxy in individual murders, so-called "honor killings" and mob violence. What amazes me, even as old as I am, is the persistence with which such tribal-religious carnage continues over the centuries. Even my opinion that practitioners of this butchery are unworthy of calling themselves full members of the human race could garner me a fatwa from some faraway wild-eyed cleric waving a Qu'ran like a cudgel and sending his minions out to hunt me down like a dog and behead me with rusty scimitars. 'Tis a weird world, one for which Mom and Dad, Grandpa and Grandma didn't prepare me for. . .

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