cops punished for not attending mosque

[+OverSword]

From the article:

The city of Tulsa, Oklahoma, punished one of its own veteran police commanders for his refusal to attend a Muslim religious service being held at a mosque he said practiced radical Islamic dogma, according to court records. He also "dared" to refuse to order his officers to visit a mosque he alleges has ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Captain Paul Fields said he was told to participate in what he characterized as a "proselytizing" Islamic worship service and that he must also order the police officers under his command to also attend and participate in the service. As a result he was relieved of his command and was harassed by the Internal Affairs Division (IAD), a group called the "rat squad" by most American cops in a majority of law enforcement agencies.

"Once some IAD squad begins to investigate you, even if you have an immaculate record as a cop, they dig until they find something that they can point to as being misconduct or corruption," said former police detective Sid Franes, who worked with a former IAD lieutenant in New York. "In Fields' case it appears they were claiming he was prejudiced against Muslims and he wasn't fit to lead police officers," Franes added.

When Fields took legal action against his police department, it ended up before the federal judges who sat on the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals and the court upheld the punishment of Capt. Fields. In essence the court ruled that the decorated cop should have visited the mosque and brought his officers with him as he was ordered to do by the city's political leaders.

"Here is another example of lawyers wearing black robes telling Americans what church services they must attend. Would they have ruled this way if it were a Muslim being ordered to attend and participate in a religious service at a Hindu temple? Or at a Catholic Cathedral? I think not," notes former police lieutenant and campus police chief Lloyd Herrington. "Fields was part of an object lesson to follow a politically-correct orthodoxy that's taking over the nation and its public and private sector institutions," Herrington said.

Now Capt. Fields, with the help of a legal foundation that fights for constitutional rights, especially First Amendment rights, is aiming to take his legal battle to the U.S. Supreme Court. The Thomas Moore Law Center is providing Fields with pro-bono legal help in fighting not only a major city police department but also a federal court that has "lost its way" with a warped understanding of the U.S. Constitution and America values

The law center's lead counsel, Richard Thompson, said in a statement: “This case is another startling example of applying a double standard when Christian civil rights are involved. If this were a Catholic or Protestant prayer event, I am positive no Muslim police officer would have been ordered to attend. Further, no federal court would have approved the punishment of a Muslim officer had he refused to attend.”

Link

[aztek]

i have to agree with the capitan.

ban PC

Edited October 14, 2014 by aztek

[Sweetpumper]

Unbelievable.

[Mr.United_Nations]

. instead of complaining about it, why doesn't the cop report about the mosque instead of himself? Surely its an American interest and not his own

[Wickian]

I read this story earlier. It's a pretty clear case of punishing him for not being PC enough. The attendance was originally optional for whichever cops wanted to show up, but later became mandatory when few volunteered.

[supervike]

First off, this 'meeting' wasn't supposed to be religious at all. It was just a 'meet and greet' for police and the Islamic center. The Captain was assured there would be no worship services required.

The police there have been doing this sort of thing for years, including many of religious natures.

The problem was the Chief of Police didn't think there would be enough 'volunteers' to go, and since representing this tax paying part of the community was very important to him and his department, he ordered officers to go.

This captain then chose to disobey a direct, legal, order and thus got canned because of it.

Workers in all kinds of fields sometimes have to do stuff that they don't personally agree with. That's part of keeping a job.

That's why he was punished.

[aztek]

First off, this 'meeting' wasn't supposed to be religious at all. It was just a 'meet and greet' for police and the Islamic center. The Captain was assured there would be no worship services required.

The police there have been doing this sort of thing for years, including many of religious natures.

The problem was the Chief of Police didn't think there would be enough 'volunteers' to go, and since representing this tax paying part of the community was very important to him and his department, he ordered officers to go.

This captain then chose to disobey a direct, legal, order and thus got canned because of it.

Workers in all kinds of fields sometimes have to do stuff that they don't personally agree with. That's part of keeping a job.

That's why he was punished.

if you put it that way. than it paints a bit different picture.

Edited October 14, 2014 by aztek

[+OverSword]

First off, this 'meeting' wasn't supposed to be religious at all. It was just a 'meet and greet' for police and the Islamic center. The Captain was assured there would be no worship services required.

The police there have been doing this sort of thing for years, including many of religious natures.

The problem was the Chief of Police didn't think there would be enough 'volunteers' to go, and since representing this tax paying part of the community was very important to him and his department, he ordered officers to go.

This captain then chose to disobey a direct, legal, order and thus got canned because of it.

Workers in all kinds of fields sometimes have to do stuff that they don't personally agree with. That's part of keeping a job.

That's why he was punished.

Wrong. Read the rest of the article before making such statements please.:

The Muslim event was characterized as the mosque's Law Enforcement Appreciation Day, but it allegedly had nothing to do with appreciation of police officers. According to Fields' attorneys, Law Enforcement Appreciation Day involved the captain and his officers taking a tour of the mosque, attending a meeting with the mosque's leadership, attending the Muslim's weekly prayer service, acquainting the police officers with Islamic religious reading material, and lectures on Islamic beliefs.

The event, which was scheduled for Friday, March 4, 2011, which the Islamic leaders said was a "holy day," was also going to familiarize the cops with a white-washed version of Mohammad's life as well as key elements of the Muslim religion and prayers. Originally, the police officers were asked to attend voluntarily, but the majority of officers refused the invitation. At that point the police were mandated to show up at the mosque.

Sounds like they were attempting to indoctrinate them. That would qualify as breach of religious freedom in my book and there is no workplace in the USA where that would be acceptable. HR would climb up you butt for trying that in any work environment in the states and you know it. Certainly no muslim would be expected to mandatorily attend a christian service, and rightly so.

Edited October 14, 2014 by OverSword

[Ogbin]

From the article:

"Here is another example of lawyers wearing black robes telling Americans what church services they must attend. Would they have ruled this way if it were a Muslim being ordered to attend and participate in a religious service at a Hindu temple? Or at a Catholic Cathedral? I think not.

The law center's lead counsel, Richard Thompson, said in a statement: “This case is another startling example of applying a double standard when Christian civil rights are involved. If this were a Catholic or Protestant prayer event, I am positive no Muslim police officer would have been ordered to attend. Further, no federal court would have approved the punishment of a Muslim officer had he refused to attend.”

I can't disagree with these statements.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Ogbin

[F3SS]

This is outrageous. It's little more than mandatory muslim butt kissing. How about we start demanding these guys assimilate to our culture and get to know US and our ways. Why is it that they migrate here and begin dictating to US what is and isn't offensive to them? Absolute political correctness at its ugliest.

Edited October 14, 2014 by F3SS

[supervike]

Wrong. Read the rest of the article before making such statements please.:

No, not wrong.

I couldn't read the 'rest of the article' because that site is loaded with about 15 million pop ups. To be honest, that's not a very good indicator of their 'journalistic integrity'. The bolded parts, as you pointed out are from Fields' attorney...again, not the most unbiased report you are going to read.

So, I went to google, looked up the officer and read several articles regarding the case:

http://www.krmg.com/...e-captai/nTWBS/

http://www.washingto...es-his-lawsuit/

https://www.aclu.org...le-other-faiths

So, don't shoot the messenger here.

On the surface, and after reading your post, I would have heartily agreed with you. But, on further review, I have to say something is being misrepresented here. And the courts seem to agree.

This man isn't being forced to worship or celebrate Allah, he was punished for refusing to do his job.

Edited October 14, 2014 by supervike

[+DieChecker]

I think the Police Commander made a decision in bad taste when he changed it from voluntary to required. If not enough officers were going in his opinion, he should have "sweetened the deal", with incentives, not give a blanket demand.

It really depends on if the officers were required to participate, or if they could simply sit and watch. Demanding they participate would be a violation of their right to freedom of religion. Demanding they simply sit there could be described as part of the expectations of a government job dealing with the public.

[+OverSword]

This man isn't being forced to worship or celebrate Allah, he was punished for refusing to do his job.

How is a christian being forced to attend a mosque part of his job. If it was being sponsored by the city then yes, but this is being sponsored by a religious organization. Can you honestly say that you believe that an islamic officer refusing to attend a similar event sponsored by a catholic church would be penalized in any way shape or form? But it's OK to disrespect Christian's and their beliefs these days.

[+OverSword]

From your second link:

Major,

I’m a little confused in reference to DCOP Webster’s directive to send 2 officers and at least 1 supervisor or shift commander from 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, [sic] shifts to the Islamic Society of Tulsa Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. Initially, this was to be on a voluntary basis, however now it is a directive. What has changed?

I have no problem with officers attending on a voluntary basis; however, I take exception to requiring officers to attend this event. Past invitations to religious/non-religious institutions for similar purposes have always been voluntary. I believe this directive to be an unlawful order, as it is in direct conflict with my personal religious convictions, as well as to be conscience shocking.

This event is not a police “call for service”, [sic] which I would readily respond to, as required by my Oath of Office. Instead, it is an invitation to, [sic] tour a Mosque, meet Muslim Leadership, watch a congregational prayer service, and receive “presentations on beliefs, human rights, and women.” It is my opinion and that of my legal counsel, that forcing me to enter a Mosque when it is not directly related to a police call for service is a violation of my Civil Rights.

[+OverSword]

Supervike did you read your links?

The first = worthless.

The second I believe supportive of my POV.

The third ridiculous. They insinuate that he refuses to serve and police the muslim part of the community, an absurd assertion.

[Big Jim]

How can someone be forced to be appreciated? If it was truly Police Appreciation Day then let those desiring to be so honored attend.

When I was growing up Catholic we were forbidden to enter a church of a different denomination for any reason. I don't know if that rule still stands or what other religions or denominations require of their members but if we are to preserve Freedom of Religion then we must be aware of the possibility of someone's personal religious beliefs preventing them from carrying out certain orders. It would be different if the mosque were the scene of a crime and required police to enter to perform their duties but for merely a purported social function we should allow the officers' personal beliefs to have priority.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Lets stick the boot on the other foot ... a Muslim copper being forced to go to a Baptist Shout At the Lord Rally Service.

Naturally, they'd refuse.

The person who forced them to go would be fired for being "insensitive" to their beliefs.

How is this "fair and equitable"?

Isn't one of the Amendments about not being forced to worship against your will?

[supervike]

Supervike did you read your links?

The first = worthless.

The second I believe supportive of my POV.

The third ridiculous. They insinuate that he refuses to serve and police the muslim part of the community, an absurd assertion.

Why are you so worried that an opposing view may be out there?

The links are fine, they just expound on the bit you posted, but this time without the Lawyering up part.

The first= sets the basis of the facts of what happens.

The second=Absolutely does not support your POV, it explains the reasons he gave as to not wanting to attend, and his Major's response. I'll quote the pertinent bit at the end of this. PLUS it explains that this type of Meet and Greet is part of the Tulsa Police's duties, as over 3000 type events were held over the given time frame, 300+ of those were with 'religious' organizations.

The third=not absurd at all. The Chief of Police states in my 2nd link that it's part of the police's duties. His refusing to go (0r send subordinates) illustrates that .

Fields continued to refuse to attend, or designate officers to attend; eventually, it turned out that many officers did attend, and no more had to be assigned, though “Of the nine shifts that had been asked to provide officers, Fields’s former shift was the only one that did not send anyone.” Fields was eventually suspended and reassigned to less desirable duties. He sued, and here is the Tenth Circuit’s analysis of his claims, which I think is generally quite sound (some paragraph breaks added):

Edited October 14, 2014 by supervike

[supervike]

How is a christian being forced to attend a mosque part of his job. If it was being sponsored by the city then yes, but this is being sponsored by a religious organization. Can you honestly say that you believe that an islamic officer refusing to attend a similar event sponsored by a catholic church would be penalized in any way shape or form? But it's OK to disrespect Christian's and their beliefs these days.

Please read my link (number 2) It explains what the Chief felt his officers' responsibilities are.

I have no idea if a Islamic officer would be penalized for not obeying a direct, legal order from his supervisor, but I would certainly hope so.

This guy was punished because he decided the rules weren't for him, the courts agree that it was fair.

[Thorvir]

Perhaps the cop should have visited it. Good to know the layout when he has to come back and help raid the place if(when) it's members snap and start pushing their dogma around at the end of a gun barrel or with an explosive vest.

[supervike]

Perhaps the cop should have visited it. Good to know the layout when he has to come back and help raid the place if(when) it's members snap and start pushing their dogma around at the end of a gun barrel or with an explosive vest.

Holy crap, you realize not all Muslims are terrorists, right?

[supervike]

How can someone be forced to be appreciated? If it was truly Police Appreciation Day then let those desiring to be so honored attend.

I would totally agree with this.

However, the Cop's boss thought differently.

I don't know about you guys, but as long as my boss is not breaking any rules when he tells me what to do, I just go ahead and do it.

That's how you keep your job and not get suspended.

Edited October 14, 2014 by supervike

[+OverSword]

I don't know about you guys, but as long as my boss is not breaking any rules when he tells me what to do, I just go ahead and do it.

That's how you keep your job and not get suspended.

Weak. I believe he had very, or extremley good reason not only to question this order, but to wait for legal action if necessary. As outlined in the letter from your second link, no officer had ever been ordered to do this kind of thing, and seems to me that a good catholic or jewish cop would not have shown up at a mosque with the exception of enforcing the law due to inarguable religious convictions. At this point I would be suing the department for compensation for harassment were I this cop.

[+OverSword]

And again from one of Supervikes links, the letter written from the cop to his supervisor.

Major,

I’m a little confused in reference to DCOP Webster’s directive to send 2 officers and at least 1 supervisor or shift commander from 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, [sic] shifts to the Islamic Society of Tulsa Law Enforcement Appreciation Day. Initially, this was to be on a voluntary basis, however now it is a directive. What has changed?

I have no problem with officers attending on a voluntary basis; however, I take exception to requiring officers to attend this event. Past invitations to religious/non-religious institutions for similar purposes have always been voluntary. I believe this directive to be an unlawful order, as it is in direct conflict with my personal religious convictions, as well as to be conscience shocking.

This event is not a police “call for service”, [sic] which I would readily respond to, as required by my Oath of Office. Instead, it is an invitation to, [sic] tour a Mosque, meet Muslim Leadership, watch a congregational prayer service, and receive “presentations on beliefs, human rights, and women.” It is my opinion and that of my legal counsel, that forcing me to enter a Mosque when it is not directly related to a police call for service is a violation of my Civil Rights.

Seems pretty reasonable to me

[Agent0range]

And again from one of Supervikes links, the letter written from the cop to his supervisor.

Seems pretty reasonable to me

What does? The Major's request, or the letter? He did not have to attend, the Major wanted two people per shift to attend. That is hardly a ridiculous request when it comes to meeting with the local leadership of a part of the community. This guy did not have to attend, but he refused to send any of his subordinates. Unless it comes out that each one of his subordinates refused, it is most definitely grounds for firing.

This is one of those cases where I wish we could know the real story...the articles from each side are so full of BS, it's disgusting.