98 replies to this topic

[Stardrive]

QuiteContrary, on 08 February 2013 - 01:26 AM, said:

Me, more and more as well too. That is why I thought this thread might touch on it from skeptics and believers.

The psychological side once again. What happens when you play the psychological card in a debate is both sides of the argument can end up looking inadequate or weak minded in some way. I can play head games as good as the next person. I don't like going there, but it's been my observation that when all else fails the card gets played and the game is on.

Yes I've even questioned my own sanity at times, but I only go where the evidence leads me. So I end up dealing with my own mental train wrecks and revelations the best I can. I don't need assistance with slam dunk answers, I can make those up myself. I can honestly say that finding evidence of "something" unusual does have an effect on the mind, for a while anyways. I don't recommend doing what I do unless your prepared to deal with the psychological effects.

QC, I know you've been an avid outdoors person for some time. I'm sure your convinced in your mind you've never seen any evidence of anything bf related while in the great outdoors. I'd be willing to bet the bank you wouldn't know evidence if you saw it and have walked right on by it many times without giving a second thought to it. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just you haven't been trained, or had it explained to you, to know what it is your looking for, and looking at. It's tricky yes, but It's like clam digging, once you get the hang of it, it's on. It's a brand new year and spring is right around the corner. It'll be interesting to see what I find this time around. Can't wait to get back out there.

[scowl]

Stardrive, on 08 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

QC, I know you've been an avid outdoors person for some time. I'm sure your convinced in your mind you've never seen any evidence of anything bf related while in the great outdoors. I'd be willing to bet the bank you wouldn't know evidence if you saw it and have walked right on by it many times without giving a second thought to it. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just you haven't been trained, or had it explained to you, to know what it is your looking for, and looking at.

That wasn't a bear. It was Bigfoot. You need more training, QC.

[Stardrive]

Thank you scowl for making my point. Statements of ignorance such as those are the reason people don't share on this board. Keep up the good work.....

[orangepeaceful79]

I'm going to guess that the lack of personal accounts here on the board probably has something more to do with a proportionality of the people who actually go into places where BF is more commonly sighted.  

The ghosts threads are full of "I heard this noise/ saw this thing in my house so it must be a ghost" encounters.  Well we all (or an overwhelming majority of us) live in houses of some kind, so the percentage of folks who have had both 1) heard/seen things in their houses and 2) are gullible enough to believe the noises/sights are paranormal is bound to be higher, and so there bound to be more of those folks posting on sites like this.  

By the same token I would postulate that the amount of people who find themselves in situations where a bigfoot is theoretically (if you believe in the things) possible is just lower because people spend more time in houses than they do in the woods.  

Also - its easier to debunk Bigfoot in my opinion because at some level Bigfoot is supposed to be an animal and so therefore governed by at least SOME of the natural laws animals are governed by.  Personally its a bigger leap of faith because the logic just isn't there.   I don't believe in ghosts, but its trickier to debunk them because by their very nature nobody really knows what kinds of things they are or what sort of rules they might play by.  Ghosts are just easier to pretend about because there are no established rules anyway.  

Furthermore I would say that the kinds of people who post in ghost threads are more likely to be sitting at home, on their butts in front of a computer, or tv, getting creeped out by the paranormal things they like to be entertained by, and so are also more likely to interpret every bump and creak as something ghostly.  

People who are likely (if Bigfoot were real) to encounter bigfoot spend more time outside and less time on their keysters in front of a screen.

[J. K.]

The Bigfoot Research Conservancy has an app that contains many, many reports of Bigfoot.  There is also a map on which all the sightings are pegged.  You can see that the bulk of the sightings occur in the wildest areas, such as deep forests and swamps.  I agree with orangepeaceful79.  Perhaps the people who frequent these wild places are statistically less likely to use computer enough to locate forums like this?  (I don't want this to sound like stereotyping.)

[orangepeaceful79]

J. K., on 09 February 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

The Bigfoot Research Conservancy has an app that contains many, many reports of Bigfoot.  There is also a map on which all the sightings are pegged.  You can see that the bulk of the sightings occur in the wildest areas, such as deep forests and swamps.  I agree with orangepeaceful79.  Perhaps the people who frequent these wild places are statistically less likely to use computer enough to locate forums like this?  (I don't want this to sound like stereotyping.)

I think its a somewhat safe assumption.  I never said they weren't capable of it, necessarily, just that outdoor endeavors tend to eat up lots of spare time, leaving less to post around here.   Sure there are exceptions...look at Sakari, Evanjc, Keninsc, Rafterman, Neognosis, NightWalker, Stardrive and others I apologize for not naming.  Outdoorsy folks who use computers too - several who  are skeptics as well.

[AsteroidX]

Bigfoot lives in the woods. In most cases deep in the woods places were man rarely travels. Thats my take.

If he does exist hes a rarity and small numbered species. Or an ET itself.

[keninsc]

Quote

QC, I know you've been an avid outdoors person for some time. I'm sure your convinced in your mind you've never seen any evidence of anything bf related while in the great outdoors. I'd be willing to bet the bank you wouldn't know evidence if you saw it and have walked right on by it many times without giving a second thought to it. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just you haven't been trained, or had it explained to you, to know what it is your looking for, and looking at. It's tricky yes, but It's like clam digging, once you get the hang of it, it's on. It's a brand new year and spring is right around the corner. It'll be interesting to see what I find this time around. Can't wait to get back out there.

I have to agree with Stardrive here, my own "openness" to the possibility didn't come until I was less able to get out and look with my eyes open. For many years I've hiked all over the US, camped, hunted and never saw or even considered the possibility that Bigfoots were real. As a result I simply wasn't really looking for them. Now that doesn't mean had I found a ginormous, big fricking footprint, I'd have blown it off, but to be honest, I simply was never looking for them. Also when I hiked in places I often tended to stay on or very close to the trails rather than venture out. I did on occasion, but only briefly. It's a perception thing, I think. Once you start looking for the oddities, or things that don't quite look right, then you will see them. If you aren't looking then odds are you will simply not see them........now, I will point out that you do have to be careful not to see things that aren't there. A belief can distort what you're really seeing. That's not to say that Stardrive is not seeing what he's seeing. I've talked with him on the phone and I think he's on to something, because as I thought back to my own observations. I've seen much of the same things, only at the time I really didn't think too much about them other than, "Oh, that's odd. Oh well."

Please understand that not everything that seems odd is evidence of a Bigfoot, there can always be other factors that lead animals to change paths or directions, factors that might not be readily apparent to a human. We don't have the same sensory inputs that say a deer has, or a fox or a squirrel for that matter. A Bobcat or cougar could have peed on a game trail a couple months ago and deer simply smelled it and said to themselves, "That's something we was to steer clear of." And after several weeks a human isn't going to be able to detect it, but a deer will and by the time it's gone they've made a new path and that's the way they go now.

[QuiteContrary]

Stardrive, on 08 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

The psychological side once again. What happens when you play the psychological card in a debate is both sides of the argument can end up looking inadequate or weak minded in some way. I can play head games as good as the next person. I don't like going there, but it's been my observation that when all else fails the card gets played and the game is on.

Yes I've even questioned my own sanity at times, but I only go where the evidence leads me. So I end up dealing with my own mental train wrecks and revelations the best I can. I don't need assistance with slam dunk answers, I can make those up myself. I can honestly say that finding evidence of "something" unusual does have an effect on the mind, for a while anyways. I don't recommend doing what I do unless your prepared to deal with the psychological effects.

QC, I know you've been an avid outdoors person for some time. I'm sure your convinced in your mind you've never seen any evidence of anything bf related while in the great outdoors. I'd be willing to bet the bank you wouldn't know evidence if you saw it and have walked right on by it many times without giving a second thought to it. I don't mean any disrespect, it's just you haven't been trained, or had it explained to you, to know what it is your looking for, and looking at. It's tricky yes, but It's like clam digging, once you get the hang of it, it's on. It's a brand new year and spring is right around the corner. It'll be interesting to see what I find this time around. Can't wait to get back out there.

When I speak of the psychological aspect, Stardrive, I mean the "why's". As opposed to the often debated "Where are the bodies, DNA, clear photos etc". I am interested in such things as what keeps searchers out in the woods, and the less scrupulous "experts" popular and offerings such as Finding Bigfoot recruiting footers...When for a skeptic like me the odds are so stacked against it all.
As I have unashamedly said before, I have been in therapy for anxiety in the past. Enough to have purchased several small islands with my co-pays. My interest into the psychology of bigfoot belief is not to label anyone "unstable" or "crazy".  Not even close.

And as far as my missing bigfoot signs in the woods, it's funny you mentioned that. As I've told before I am an invertebrate fanatic, so I  am fairly good at finding the tiniest camouflaged insect in thick brush. So, I tend to go into any habitat with a tunnel vision mindset. Therefore i have probably not only missed bf sign, but stepped over his dead body to net an elusive beetle. lol

But on a more serious note, I would think any signs of such a  very large hair/fur covered animal would attract the attention of outdoorspeople. And they may and do see what footers see, but come up with a different conclusion, than they are bf related. At least that would be the case sometimes I believe.

[QuiteContrary]

orangepeaceful79, on 09 February 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

I'm going to guess that the lack of personal accounts here on the board probably has something more to do with a proportionality of the people who actually go into places where BF is more commonly sighted.  

The ghosts threads are full of "I heard this noise/ saw this thing in my house so it must be a ghost" encounters.  Well we all (or an overwhelming majority of us) live in houses of some kind, so the percentage of folks who have had both 1) heard/seen things in their houses and 2) are gullible enough to believe the noises/sights are paranormal is bound to be higher, and so there bound to be more of those folks posting on sites like this.  

By the same token I would postulate that the amount of people who find themselves in situations where a bigfoot is theoretically (if you believe in the things) possible is just lower because people spend more time in houses than they do in the woods.  

Also - its easier to debunk Bigfoot in my opinion because at some level Bigfoot is supposed to be an animal and so therefore governed by at least SOME of the natural laws animals are governed by.  Personally its a bigger leap of faith because the logic just isn't there.   I don't believe in ghosts, but its trickier to debunk them because by their very nature nobody really knows what kinds of things they are or what sort of rules they might play by.  Ghosts are just easier to pretend about because there are no established rules anyway.  

Furthermore I would say that the kinds of people who post in ghost threads are more likely to be sitting at home, on their butts in front of a computer, or tv, getting creeped out by the paranormal things they like to be entertained by, and so are also more likely to interpret every bump and creak as something ghostly.  

People who are likely (if Bigfoot were real) to encounter bigfoot spend more time outside and less time on their keysters in front of a screen.

All very likely explanations. And I agree with you, as well at the same time,  we do have thousands of reports put on the Internet by witnesses contacting databases, and I would think those who have witnessed bigfoot may also be the more likely searching out sites like this, not just anyone.

[QuiteContrary]

AsteroidX, on 09 February 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

Bigfoot lives in the woods. In most cases deep in the woods places were man rarely travels. Thats my take.

If he does exist hes a rarity and small numbered species. Or an ET itself.

Didn't the member who categorized BFRO database sightings conclude most were road crossings, not hikers or hunters. ** I may remember that  wrong***
but still a lot of sightings are roadside or road crossings by motorists not your remote woodsman/woman.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 09 February 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[keninsc]

Quote

As I have unashamedly said before, I have been in therapy for anxiety in the past. Enough to have purchased several small islands with my co-pays. My interest into the psychology of bigfoot belief is not to label anyone "unstable" or "crazy".  Not even close.

I don't think anyone got the impression the thread was about calling people crazy for having either seen or thought they'd seen a Bigfoot. Now, having said that, there is a prevalent mentality that many people have any more that seems to suggest that they'll accept anything you say and absolute Gospel without any sort of proof or verification. All you have to do is say Bigfoot is the Daddy to your baby and they believe it. Ok, maybe not that, but you get what I'm saying. In fact there are some boards on the web if you even suggest you might be in the least skeptical they'll toss you out on your ear. I left the BFRO forum because I had the audacity to question a report one of their anointed field researchers put out. In short order I got not one, not two but three emails telling me to knock it off or face the possibility of excommunication from the Board. I opted to leave on my own after that. And it wasn't like I said, "Aw you're full of...........!" or anything like that, I simply thought the footprints looked like a double bear print. To which I was told in no short order that there were no bear in Washington state........huh? And especially in Eastern Washington. As it happened I've hiked in that very region of eastern Washington and can attest to the fact that there are bear warning signs posted throughout the Park I was in and even I saw bear print in there.

Now while I'm hardly an expert of the migratory habits of the Grizzly bear in North America, I can read signs and I can recognize bear tracks.........oh, and I'm not crazy. Ok, that's a lie, I am a little crazy, but it's from dealing with idiots and know-it-alls.

[QuiteContrary]

keninsc, on 09 February 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

I don't think anyone got the impression the thread was about calling people crazy for having either seen or thought they'd seen a Bigfoot. Now, having said that, there is a prevalent mentality that many people have any more that seems to suggest that they'll accept anything you say and absolute Gospel without any sort of proof or verification. All you have to do is say Bigfoot is the Daddy to your baby and they believe it. Ok, maybe not that, but you get what I'm saying. In fact there are some boards on the web if you even suggest you might be in the least skeptical they'll toss you out on your ear. I left the BFRO forum because I had the audacity to question a report one of their anointed field researchers put out. In short order I got not one, not two but three emails telling me to knock it off or face the possibility of excommunication from the Board. I opted to leave on my own after that. And it wasn't like I said, "Aw you're full of...........!" or anything like that, I simply thought the footprints looked like a double bear print. To which I was told in no short order that there were no bear in Washington state........huh? And especially in Eastern Washington. As it happened I've hiked in that very region of eastern Washington and can attest to the fact that there are bear warning signs posted throughout the Park I was in and even I saw bear print in there.

Now while I'm hardly an expert of the migratory habits of the Grizzly bear in North America, I can read signs and I can recognize bear tracks.........oh, and I'm not crazy. Ok, that's a lie, I am a little crazy, but it's from dealing with idiots and know-it-alls.

I was replying to this quote of Stardrive's from his post #31 *snip*
"What happens when you play the psychological card in a debate is both sides of the argument can end up looking inadequate or weak minded in some way."

If I misinterpreted, I apologize, Stardrive.

[SpiritWriter]

Ive been to the bigfoot store near mt. Rainier and looked out the window into the woods all the way down the washington coast to oregon telling scary stories about bf to the frightened children in the backseat but thats about it.  :/ sorry. But.. if I did see bigfoot.. I would tell you about it..

Edited by SpiritWriter, 09 February 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[mysticwerewolf]

Guess i will break the ice on this one Then,  normally i don't talk about this because  i have no witnesses or evidence, and especially i don't like being called specific names that people seem to use on  sightings and visions and such..  Back in the early eighties I went target shooting regularly in the Mts near the sulton basin in wa. state  ( back beforethe locals  started showing up  and standing next to the targets you were using in the sandpits you were using for the practise )  on one specific  day  i was target practising with my 30-06   I went through about 30 rounds and then i noticed movement out of the corner of my eye so I scoped in on the movement.
there was a face, covered in sort of orangy brown fur  looking at me from the top right side of the sand pit.. I stared for what seemed several minutes before it sunk through my thick skull what i was appearently looking at. My first thought was my God a bigfoot,  My second thought was one million dollars bounty ( i had heard somewhere that once apon a time there was a bounty on a bigfoot dead or alive)  and   instead of pulling the trigger I set the rifle down.  we stared at each other for another moment then it pulled back and vanished into the forest.
with it now gone i grabed the rifle and went to investigate, i found nothing, no foot prints, to hair, no stench, nothing to indicate anything had been there the only thing i noticed was that when i tried to measure how tall the thing was ( i was 5 10 at the time ) i required my rifle to reach the branch that the head had been next to.  Holding the rifle just behind the trigger guard I was just barely able to touch that branch.
   Suddenly i got cold chills and returned to the car and left.   I was sure that i just  saw a real bigfoot and remained sure for a couple year,  until the night i saw the movie harry and the hendersons. when they showed harry in the pool grinning I lost it for awhile because That was the face i saw looing back at me.
I was sober, I did not use drugs,  and i don't believe that someone would walk through the woods in a bigfoot costume out in the middle of nowhere just for the fun of it,especially not when  someone is target shooting with a large bore rifle. Whatever i saw is lucky i didn't shoot it as i considered it for several seconds before putting down the rifle. and as a hunter who has been in touching distance of a black bear several time ( reach out and touch it distance) over the years I Know it was not a bear.
edited for spelling

Edited by mysticwerewolf, 09 February 2013 - 08:10 AM.