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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


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#1441    Otharus

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:22 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 14 October 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Ok, a summary of my reasons why I think the OLB is not what it is supposed to be, an authentic MS of ancient European history.

Lets refine the question.

You believe it is a 19th century hoax.

I believe it is a 13th century manuscript (or a copy of it).

If it is a (copy of a) 13th C. manuscript, that does not mean that all information in it has to be true, as in theory it could still all be fiction.

This already disqualifies several of your arguments, does it not?

So why - in your opinion - does it have to be a 19th C. hoax and can it not be a (copy of a) 13th C. manuscript?

Or can it?

Edited by Otharus, 15 October 2012 - 09:00 PM.


#1442    Van Gorp

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:42 PM

View PostOtharus, on 15 October 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

al-Kindi, a well-known Arabic philosopher, introduced and tried to reconcile Socrates and Hellenistic philosophy to an Islamic audience, referring to him by the name 'Suqrat'. (wiki/Socrates)

=> just like I said: Soeck Raedt!

OLB: BOK
English: book
Dutch: boek
German: buch
Swedish: bok

OLB: GOD
English: good
Dutch: goed
German: gut
Swedish: gott

OLB: SOK
English: 'sook' (seek, search)
Dutch: 'soek' (zoek)
German: such
Swedish: sök

OLB: RÉD
English: 'read' (counsel, advice)
Dutch: raad, rede
German: rat
Swedish: råd

Posted Image

Posted Image

I am not kidding.

Van Gorp, do you know if one of the Flemish etymologists ever came with this one?

Nice link Otharus :-)  I never came across this etymologie for Socrates, but it is meaningfull.  People did ask for his advice.
There is a similar one for RadBoud: Raad-Bode (Schrieck)

For Socrates Schrieck mentions 's Hoger-heid's (see the pointing finger to the sky).  As opposed to Ar-ist-ot-eles (lowering hand) -> Er-wist-het-alles beter, pedant kereltje :-)
Socrates at least aknowledged himself that he only knew for sure not knowing it.  In that way he advised people to discuss the truth in order to find it.


#1443    The Puzzler

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 October 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

I know the site; instead of quoting directly from that site, you better check their sources first,.

I'm not saying the site is right so don't care about it's sources - I was curious if anyone else had seen the Frisian/Hebrew connection and that site doesn't even align with what I or the OLB says, I don't even know why I bothered, I should have known you'd jump on it.

I hope you finally got the 'point' here, not the 'arm',  which you didn't comment on, so I'll repost, in case you missed it.

Same website you linked Abe...

"Suspended in mid-air, yod is the smallest of the Hebrew letters, the 'atom' of the consonants, and the form of which all the other letters begin and end.

The first dot with which the scribes start writing a letter, or the last dot that gives the letter it's final form - is the yod.

In the Jewish mystical tradition, yod represents a mere dot, a divine point of energy. Since yod is used to produce all the other letters, and since God uses the letters as the building blocks of creation, yod indicates God's omnipresence.


Yod is considered the starting point of the presence of God in all things - the "spark" of the spirit in all things."
http://www.hebrew4ch...et/Yod/yod.html

Edited by The Puzzler, 15 October 2012 - 10:35 PM.

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#1444    The Puzzler

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:39 PM

View PostVan Gorp, on 15 October 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:

Nice link Otharus :-)  I never came across this etymologie for Socrates, but it is meaningfull.  People did ask for his advice.
There is a similar one for RadBoud: Raad-Bode (Schrieck)

For Socrates Schrieck mentions 's Hoger-heid's (see the pointing finger to the sky).  As opposed to Ar-ist-ot-eles (lowering hand) -> Er-wist-het-alles beter, pedant kereltje :-)
Socrates at least aknowledged himself that he only knew for sure not knowing it.  In that way he advised people to discuss the truth in order to find it.

This is actually for Otharus.


This site says his name means this, but I'm all for different etymology attempts...


Meaning & History
From the Greek name Σωκρατης (Sokrates), which was derived from σως (sos) "whole, unwounded, safe" and κρατος (kratos) "power". This was the name of an important Greek philosopher. He left no writings of his own; virtually everything that we know of his beliefs comes from his pupil Plato. He was sentenced to death for impiety.

http://www.behindthe...m/name/socrates

All the finger pointing from Socrates and Plato reminds me of YOD/OD in fact.

Edited by The Puzzler, 15 October 2012 - 10:42 PM.

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#1445    The Puzzler

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 11:04 PM

View PostOtharus, on 15 October 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Or: zoek (het) rad = seek (the) wheel

Posted Image

How about Socrates =

sõkia-seek
râdia-put in order

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-S.pdf
http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-R.pdf

That's how I'd see him - seeking to put things in order

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#1446    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:06 AM

râ-d-ia

, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. ordnen, bereiten; ne. put in order;

The interesting thing with this word imo - is that it seems to connect to Sami Radien Attje - who is Wralden Olmai (Wralda).


I do see rêd in the OLB translated as advice though.  Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten
rÐ-d-a

(1) 4, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. raten, überlegen (V.), helfen; ne.

advise, consider, help

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 October 2012 - 02:07 AM.

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#1447    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:31 AM

While reading stuff, I found a reference to shamans producing 'imagery', which immediately hit me as a meaning for Magyar, or Magi, who who can produce magic - imagery. Not that it's probably a Fryan word, since they were already called that when they arrived. Not really relative to anything except I thought it made an interesting connection to what a Magyar does.

The priests are the only rulers; they call themselves Magyars, and their headman Magy.

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#1448    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:20 AM

früchda aend nochta anda drâma

frou-d-e

1, afries., F.: nhd. Freude; ne. delight

fru-ch-t

10, afries., st. F. (æ), st. M. (a): nhd. Frucht; ne. fruit


Wiki says that IN FACT (how they know this as fact I dunno) that Freya's name comes from the meaning for 'lady', which is FROU in West Frisian.

frou-w-e

50 und häufiger?, fro-w-e, afries., sw. F. (n): nhd. Frau, Herrin,

Schwiegermutter; ne. lady, mother-in-law; ÜG.: lat. mõtræna W 2, L 23; Vw.: s.

ju-n-g-, klâ-st-er-, liõf-, mun-ek-, -lik, *-lik-hê-d; Hw.: vgl. as. frða*, ahd. frouwa*;

Q.: B, E, H, W, S, W 2, L 23; E.: germ. *fræwæ-, *fræwæn, sw. F. (n), Herrin,

Frau; s. idg. *prÅøo-, Präp., vorwärts, vorn, Pokorny 815; vgl. idg. *per- (2A),

Präp., vorwärts, über, hinaus, durch, Pokorny 810; W.: nfries. frouw, F., Frau; L.:


frou-w-e-lik

1, fro-w-e-lik, afries., Adj.: nhd. was eine Frau betrifft, fraulich; ne.

womanly; Q.: E; E.: s. frou-w-e, -lik (3); L.: Hh 32b, Rh 769a

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#1449    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:31 AM

I also think nochta and drama is actually referring to  'night dreams'. - nightly dreams - night/nochte(still)
noch-te

1 und häufiger?, nach-te, afries., Adv.: nhd. noch; ne. still

nacht=night in the OLB. 'The still of the night'.

früchda aend nochta anda drâma

delight in their nightly dreams

drâ-m

* 7, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Traum; ne. dream

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 October 2012 - 03:52 AM.

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#1450    Otharus

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:58 AM

Thanks for the comments Goropius and Puzzler.

View PostOtharus, on 15 October 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

OLB: SOK
English: 'sook' (seek, search)
Dutch: 'soek' (zoek)
German: such
Swedish: sök

OLB: RÉD
English: 'read' (counsel, advice), rationality, reason
Dutch: raad, rede, rationaliteit
German: rat
Swedish: råd

RÉD / RAD / RAT is also the root for rationality,
so the name Sokrat (Arab: Suqrat) is practically synonymous to philosophy
(Dutch: wijsbegeerte = desire for wisdom).

Who would dare to claim that this is a coincidence?

Combined with all the other Oldfrisian- (or Oldgermanic if one prefers) based etymologies of Greek names and toponyms (that make more sense than the existing ones), it provides a favorable challenge to the old paradigm.


#1451    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:22 AM

OK, I think 'seek reason' is good, because that seems to be pretty much what he did, looked for reasoning in the universal state of things and put forth intellectual statements in arguments to adopt actions to the ends, as you say, what a philosopher does.
reason (n.) Posted Image early 13c., "statement in an argument," also "intellectual faculty that adopts actions to ends," from Anglo-Fr. resoun, O.Fr. raison, from L. rationem (nom. ratio) "reckoning, understanding, motive, cause," from ratus, pp. of reri "to reckon, think," from PIE root *re(i)- "to reason, count" (cf. O.E. rædan "to advise; see read). http://www.etymonlin...php?term=reason

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#1452    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:15 AM

From PIE root - re(i )- to reason, count.
Count, in order?
I suspect raed (reason) and râdia(to put in order) are connected.

Looking for that PIE root in a possible Frisian word, I found rei-d - reid went to hreid

hriõd


* 3, hreid*, reid*, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Ried (N.) (1), Rohr; ne. reed
(N.);

Hw.: vgl. ae. hréod, anfrk. ried, as. *hriod?, ahd. riot, mnl. riet;

Seems reed as a last name means ruddy or reddish - but then I found that reed, a plant comes from: hreod, which seems to be alot like hreid - so am guessing that this reed is a plant reed, not red.



Origin:
before 900;  Middle English;  Old English  hrēod;  cognate with German,  Dutch  riet

http://dictionary.re...com/browse/reed


So riet is at hreid - so this word is reed as in plant.
One of the meanings of reed/plant is:
to make vertical grooves on (the edge of a coin, medal, etc.).  - a reed was used to make notches in a palm to count up the regnal years in Egypt. I could see a reed, used to make notches, or lined up themselves, is order, and enables you to count, and therefore make reason.

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 October 2012 - 09:16 AM.

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#1453    NO-ID-EA

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:01 AM

According to Higgins the Gauls called Britain Albion from the Celtic word for lofty, high ... as in Alps, Appenines , Mount Albis , and the high white cliffs at Dover........but over time people connected the word to white thinking they must have got their name from the snow covered tops , and from the chalky white cliffs , and used alb for white in error ..........The Highlanders of Scotland were called the Albanoch , but this name meant they lived in the heights , not because they were white .

However Bochart says Bards or poets called the land Inis Wen , or white Island......but he says the Phoenicians called Ireland Obr-nae , and Britain Alb-in , but he says they meant Ireland was the Island on the West , and britain on the East ?

With the words Sok- red for Socrates , bear in mind the closeness of the two word Sac-red , and Sec-ret ..............These may fall in line with Higgins theory that the philosophers were the holders of their peoples origins ,and therefore ancient claims to ownership of the land , and why they adopted secret alphabets to stop other priests changing , and altering them, a conquering priesthood cant change your historic records if he cant read or write your secret ciphers.

OLB includes complaints that the Magi were obtaining copies of their history and were changing them, a warning is for the people not to let the histories fall into the hands of the evil priests , or they would lose their origins, did they invent the Yule alphabet to encode their history , (if only their history needed encoding that could be why not much written in it has been found ) and if the Magi cant alter it , because they cant read or write it , their only option is to destroy it, which is pretty much what happened i think..

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 16 October 2012 - 11:10 AM.


#1454    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:10 PM

View PostNO-ID-EA, on 16 October 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

According to Higgins the Gauls called Britain Albion from the Celtic word for lofty, high ... as in Alps, Appenines , Mount Albis , and the high white cliffs at Dover........but over time people connected the word to white thinking they must have got their name from the snow covered tops , and from the chalky white cliffs , and used alb for white in error ..........The Highlanders of Scotland were called the Albanoch , but this name meant they lived in the heights , not because they were white .

However Bochart says Bards or poets called the land Inis Wen , or white Island......but he says the Phoenicians called Ireland Obr-nae , and Britain Alb-in , but he says they meant Ireland was the Island on the West , and britain on the East ?

With the words Sok- red for Socrates , bear in mind the closeness of the two word Sac-red , and Sec-ret ..............These may fall in line with Higgins theory that the philosophers were the holders of their peoples origins ,and therefore ancient claims to ownership of the land , and why they adopted secret alphabets to stop other priests changing , and altering them, a conquering priesthood cant change your historic records if he cant read or write your secret ciphers.

OLB includes complaints that the Magi were obtaining copies of their history and were changing them, a warning is for the people not to let the histories fall into the hands of the evil priests , or they would lose their origins, did they invent the Yule alphabet to encode their history , (if only their history needed encoding that could be why not much written in it has been found ) and if the Magi cant alter it , because they cant read or write it , their only option is to destroy it, which is pretty much what happened i think..
Hi NO-ID-EA
Do you know what that Celtic word was, that meant lofty, high?

Maybe it all started with old - ald - alt/alp depending on who took this word on.

The OLB interestingly tells us that ald became at in the language of the people whose language derived from the Greeks.

Because the older you are, the taller you get and the higher you rise. Elevated status - altar.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/alt
Old High German
    Etymology

From Proto-Germanic *aldran, whence also Old English ealdor, Old Norse aldr.
    Noun

altar n. Descendants
Also that Wralda is meaning old but also a sky God, one might think of him as being 'most high' indeed. Because he was old, he was highest, up in the sky, as high as the clouds.

al-d

60, afries., Adj.: nhd. alt; ne. old (Adj.); ÜG.: lat. antÆquus L 9; Vw.: s. -hê-d;

Hw.: vgl. ae. eald, as. ald, ahd. alt (2), plattd. ol, ald; Q.: E, H, R, W, S, B, Jur, L

9; E.: germ. *alda-, *aldaz, Adj., alt; s. idg. *al- (2), *h
2el-, V., wachsen (V.) (1),

nähren, Pokorny 26, EWAhd 1, 171; W.: nfries. aod, oad; W.: saterl. ald; W.:

nnordfries. uld, ul, al; L.: Hh 2b, Rh 59

---------------------------
al-t-are

* 27, al-t-er, afries., st. M. (a?), st. N. (a?): nhd. Altar; ne. altar; Vw.: s.

frâ-n-a-; Hw.: vgl. an. altari, ae. alter, altar, as. altari, alteri, ahd. altõri; Q.: R, E,

B, W, S, Schw, Jur; I.: Lw. lat. altõre; E.: s. lat. altõre, N., Aufsatz auf dem

Opfertisch, Opferherd, Brandaltar; s. lat. adolÐre, V., duften, Opfer auflodern

lassen, verbrennen; vgl. idg. *al- (4), V., brennen, Pokorny 28; W.: nfries. alter;

W.: saterl. alter; L.: Hh 3a, Rh 601b

al-t-er

, afries., M., N.: Vw.: s. al-t-are*          

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 October 2012 - 01:11 PM.

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#1455    The Puzzler

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:39 PM

Just to add to my above post in saying Wralda was a sky God: Radien or Vearalden was a sky-ruling god. http://en.wikipedia..../Sami_mythology

I'm editing the rest of this post before I add it.

Edited by The Puzzler, 16 October 2012 - 03:27 PM.

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