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WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken


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#901    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

View PostStundie, on 27 February 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Please take a look at what the firefighter said they saw. And show me the quote where I implied firefighters are metallurgists?? :blink:

They are not metallurgist, which once again brings us back to my original  comment about firefighters. With the large amount of aluminum that was used in the facade of the WTC buildings and in the construction of the B-767s that struck them, and add to the fact that temperatures were high enough to melt aluminum but not steel, it should be of no real mystery that any molten metal they saw was nor steel. In other words, there was nothing there to produce molten steel at ground zero.

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Cause I think evidently, that you are seeing things which don't exist...lol

All you have to do is to produced evidence of a catalytic reaction that can produce molten steel other than from torches from clean-up crews, short of that, you have no case.

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Yes they did and no matter how many times you spam the forum saying otherwise, you are wrong because evidence from those who were at GZ like professors to firefightes to clean up workers said they saw molten steel/beams/girders and not aluminium.

Which brings us back to the argument that firefighters and others who are not experts in identifying molten metal nor are they metallurgist.

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#902    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:10 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 21 February 2013 - 05:50 AM, said:

Were you aware that the solidfied steel you see in the background in the following photo was created by clean-up workers with torches?

Posted Image
can you present your proof for that


#903    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:17 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

can you present your proof for that

Of course!





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#904    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:37 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 February 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

Of course!
that doesn't prove your statement.
the beams in your videos are different to the one on the photo.


#905    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

that doesn't prove your statement.

Yes, it does!

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...the beams in your videos are different to the one on the photo.

It is very clear in the photo that column was not cut by anything else but by torches of clean-up crews. You can go into denial all you want but it won't change reality.

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Cross-section samples of the characteristic marks made by oxy-acetylene flame cutting of steel

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Table 1 Thermal Hot Spot Data
Location Temperature Area Hot Spot N Latitude W Longitude (Kelvin) % FOV sq meter A 40o 42' 47.18" 74o 00' 41.43" 1000 15 0.56 B 40o 42' 47.14" 74o 00' 43.53" 830 2 0.08 C 40o 42' 42.89" 74o 00' 48.88" 900 20 0.8 D 40o 42' 41.99" 74o 00' 46.94" 790 20 0.8 E 40o 42' 40.58" 74o 00' 50.15" 710 10 0.4 F 40o 42' 38.74" 74o 00' 46.70" 700 10 0.4 G 40o 42' 39.94" 74o 00' 45.37" 1020 1 0.04 H 40o 42' 38.60" 74o 00' 43.51" 820 2 0.08
Positions are in degrees-minutes-decimal seconds, datum WGS84.
Position accuracy is estimated to be approximately +/- 6 meters (18 feet).


Posted Image

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Now, show us where at any time, temperatures were high enough to melt steel. After doing so, perhaps you can try to explain why conspiracist think that thermite left behind molten steel for days.

Edited by skyeagle409, 27 February 2013 - 08:46 PM.

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#906    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:23 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 February 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

It is very clear in the photo that column was not cut by anything else but by torches of clean-up crews. You can go into denial all you want but it won't change reality.
merely re-asserting your assertion is not proof of your assertion.
this is becoming a bad habit of yours.


#907    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 08:49 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

merely re-asserting your assertion is not proof of your assertion.
this is becoming a bad habit of yours.

Answer the questions I have posed to you above. If you are unable to refute the data or answer the questions, then you have no case.

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#908    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:19 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 February 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

Answer the questions I have posed to you above. If you are unable to refute the data or answer the questions, then you have no case.
i'm not making any case here with regard to that beam in the photo, so you don't need me to answer your questions.
I wanted to see your evidence that the beam in the photo with the firefighter was cut by a torch.
your black and white torch cut photo, if real, is good evidence that it was cut by a torch, the layers and shape characteristics of the cut are very similar.

can you say the same about this one:

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or this one, you'll see how the beam thins out to razor sharp:

Posted Image


#909    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:37 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

i'm not making any case here with regard to that beam in the photo, so you don't need me to answer your questions.
I wanted to see your evidence that the beam in the photo with the firefighter was cut by a torch.
your black and white torch cut photo, if real, is good evidence that it was cut by a torch, the layers and shape characteristics of the cut are very similar.

can you say the same about this one:

Posted Image

or this one, you'll see how the beam thins out to razor sharp:

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None of those photos depict thermite cutting. In figure C-2, the flange of the steel was not even in a molten state. Once again, you have to understand what you are posting. This is how it was done.

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I wish to add that fire can produce enough heat to deform steel.

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Edited by skyeagle409, 27 February 2013 - 09:46 PM.

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#910    Babe Ruth

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:51 PM

Sky

Something about all those photos is so....fake, or something.

It was an inside job and we both know it.  Way more than us, actually. :st


#911    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:52 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 27 February 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

Sky

Something about all those photos is so....fake, or something.

You are wrong again. :yes:

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It was an inside job and we both know it.  Way more than us, actually.

That statement of yours has no credibility and we all know how you have concocted false stories and got caught doing so on many occasions. :yes:

Edited by skyeagle409, 27 February 2013 - 10:02 PM.

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#912    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:07 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 February 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:

None of those photos depict thermite cutting.
those photos do not depict damage by fire, or by your own definition damage by cutting torch.

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In figure C-2, the flange of the steel was not even in a molten state.
the damage to the beam is consistent with thermite damage as proven by john cole's experiments - he gets the same result, and the analysis on that piece of steel found melting between the steel grains, but i reckon you already knew that, which is why you chose your words carefully.

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Once again, you have to understand what you are posting. This is how it was done.
but where is your evidence?
you are back to just asserting without evidence.

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I wish to add that fire can produce enough heat to deform steel.
but the 2 photos i gave you are not merely deformed steel as depicted in your photo.


#913    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

those photos do not depict damage by fire, or by your own definition damage by cutting torch.

The photos depicted nothing that even remotely suggest that thermite was used.

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...the damage to the beam is consistent with thermite damage as proven by john cole's experiments

Not it isn't. The characteristic of thermite cutting is not present in any of the photos. I must add that thermite was not capable of causing the collapse of the WTC buildings. The buckling was evidence that fire, not explosives, was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings, and I might add that  thermite is not widely used by the demolition implosion industry nor is thermite an explosive.

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WTC Pre-Collapse Bowing Debunks 9/11 "Controlled Demolition" Theory

Indications of the Imminent Collapse
of the World Trade Center Buildings
Disprove Explosives Theory


Scientists investigating the Sept. 11, 2001 collapse of the twin towers said, "the World Trade Center towers showed telltale signs they were about to collapse several minutes before each crumbled to the ground." There would not be telltale signs if it was explosives (Controlled Demolition) that caused the buildings to collapse.

"In the case of the north tower, police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs - an inward bowing of the building facade - at least eight minutes before it collapsed at 10:29 a.m." New York Daily News reporter Paul Shin wrote in his June 19th, 2004 article 9/11 cops saw collapse coming.

"Federal engineering investigators studying the destruction of the World Trade Center's twin towers on Sept. 11 said New York Police Department aviation units reported an inward bowing of the buildings' columns in the minutes before they collapsed, a signal they were about to fall." - NYC Police Saw Sign of Tower Collapse, Study Says

http://www.represent...Explosives.html

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...- he gets the same result, and the analysis on that piece of steel found melting between the steel grains,...

You failed to understand the torches were used to cut steel columns, which had nothing to do with thermite.

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...but where is your evidence?

The photos speak a thousand words. Where's your evidence the refutes what the photos are saying?

Edited by skyeagle409, 27 February 2013 - 10:20 PM.

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#914    Little Fish

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:29 PM

View Postskyeagle409, on 27 February 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

The photos depicted nothing that even remotely suggest that thermite was used.
john cole did the experiment using thermite and he gets near identical results. but you know this already.

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Not it isn't. The characteristic of thermite cutting is not present in any of the photos.
you know this is false. the john cole experiment shows it. what evidence do you have to doubt cole's experiments?

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You failed to understand the torches were used to cut steel columns,
no, i accept that torches were used to cut columns in the cleanup.

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which had nothing to do with thermite.
but torches do not produce the jagged cut in the first picture, nor the thinning of the beam in the second photo. so that's you all washed up with no evidence again.

no doubt, we'll hear you say the same things again shortly.


#915    skyeagle409

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:31 PM

View PostLittle Fish, on 27 February 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

but the 2 photos i gave you are not merely deformed steel as depicted in your photo.

But, your photos did not depict evidence of thermite cutting. On another note:

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Civil Engineering and Materials Science
Northwestern University

The towers of the World Trade Center were designed to withstand as a whole the horizontal impact of a large commercial aircraft. So why did a total collapse occur? The reason is the dynamic consequence of the prolonged heating of the steel columns to very high temperature.

The heating caused creep buckling of the columns of the framed tube along the perimeter of the structure, which transmits the vertical load to the ground. The likely scenario of failure may be explained as follows...

http://www-math.mit....TC/WTC-asce.pdf


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