4009 replies to this topic

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 23 December 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

My point was that if all of Europe was in turmoil around 1200 BCE, why does he OLB not mention that period, not one single word.

I'll tell you why: those who created the OLB in the 19th century didn't know anything about it.

I think so. They knew from Tacitus and other Roman and Greek historians and writers what peoples were on the move in the 1st millennium, but had no reports about the Celtic era or earlier. The relied mainly on the Bible.

Edited by Knul, 24 December 2012 - 02:42 AM.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 22 December 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

There is no gap, Ulysses is mentioned, and his story is placed at the time of these upheavals.

But these upheavals which got people all over Europe on the move are not even as much as hinted at in the OLB.

.

The gap is between 1200BC to 600BC, from the end of Ulysses passage where the upheaval at (Suez) canal at 1200BC but the next entry is 600 years later. It may be why there is such a long gap in the entries even, because of the upheavals nothing was written in this time.
There would be no need to write something in 600BC that occurred in 1200BC.
And the c. 1200BC entry, nothing might have happened much at the time of writing, so wasn't included. (Except the upheaval as they went through the canal).

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 26 December 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

The gap is between 1200BC to 600BC, from the end of Ulysses passage where the upheaval at (Suez) canal at 1200BC but the next entry is 600 years later. It may be why there is such a long gap in the entries even, because of the upheavals nothing was written in this time.
There would be no need to write something in 600BC that occurred in 1200BC.
And the c. 1200BC entry, nothing might have happened much at the time of writing, so wasn't included. (Except the upheaval as they went through the canal).

If you read that long quote of mine (from a website) a page or so back, you will know that Troy, Ulysses and the Sea peoples (and many peoples on the move within Europe, whole coutries depopulated, signs of massive floodings in Europe) happened around 1200 BC, and that all that was caused by some catastrophical event, some even suggest an impact or multiple impacts of comets (which would make Jürgen Spanuth very happy, btw).

So I am not talking about a gap between 1200 and 600 BCE, I am talking about the episode in the OLB about Ulysses or a decade before his arrival.

The OLB talks in detail about what was supposed to have happened around 2200 BCE - which was also written down in 600 BCE -, but not a word about what they now know really happened around 1200 BCE.

And maybe I'm mistaken, but was the upheaval at the Suez canal according to the OLB not 300 years or so earlier?

+++

EDIT:

It was actually 400 years earlier (Geertmen, Punjab).

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 December 2012 - 10:22 AM.

[NO-ID-EA]

I have been reading Fomenko over the holiday, out of interest , to try to understand their theory.

He seems to think the country and name Russians , came from Rus-Scans , and talks about Frisians and Phrygians as if they are one and the same, without explanation as if " well sure , doesn't everyone know that "

So far i am on book 2, and am looking for anything which might tie in with OBL.

but their theory about  the Trojan war , the Gothic war , and the Tarquinian war , all being the same event , by different historians , and given different dates by Scaligeri and Petavius is blowing my mind , trying to keep up .

[Abramelin]

I hope you will also read this:  
http://en.wikipedia....enko)#Reception

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 December 2012 - 01:29 PM.

[NO-ID-EA]

sorry... duplicate post

Edited by NO-ID-EA, 26 December 2012 - 03:17 PM.

[NO-ID-EA]

NO-ID-EA, on 26 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

Yep , i am just interested to at least understand what their theory entails ...... they are a group of noted mathematicians after all.

having read some velikovsky , isaac Newtons amended chronology , Peter James, David Rohl, etc.......there could be something in it , why did caesar feel the need to change chron to AD1 , and from what, and then for it to change  again in 1582.with a possible gain of 300 ghoste years

with Hebrews, Syriac , egyptian , Sumarians all having different calculation it is probably worth keeping an open mind.............. but subject for a whole other thread.

I only mentioned it to say about Rus-scans and Phrygians with poss connectons to OLB....Askar etc

[Abramelin]

Well No, read the Wiki page I linked.to: it appears that what Fomenko accuses historians of, he is doing himself. And his statistical analyses are not that great.

But what is the relation with the OLB?

The MS does place certain events at about the same time as in official history, or many times ages earlier. But certainly not ages later.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 26 December 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[Van Gorp]

NO-ID-EA, on 26 December 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

Yep , i am just interested to at least understand what their theory entails ...... they are a group of noted mathematicians after all.

having read some velikovsky , isaac Newtons amended chronology , Peter James, David Rohl, etc.......there could be something in it , why did caesar feel the need to change chron to AD1 , and from what, and then for it to change  again in 1582.with a possible gain of 300 ghoste years

with Hebrews, Syriac , egyptian , Sumarians all having different calculation it is probably worth keeping an open mind.............. but subject for a whole other thread.

I only mentioned it to say about Rus-scans and Phrygians with poss connectons to OLB....Askar etc

Great ID-EA :-)

Alongside 'deplacements'/doublures in time, there are also abundant deplacements/doublures in location.
Can indeed be puzzling.

History as we are told (WIKI references/myths we put OLB against) can be more fairy tale than OLB :-)

[Abramelin]

Van Gorp, on 26 December 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

Great ID-EA :-)

Alongside 'deplacements'/doublures in time, there are also abundant deplacements/doublures in location.
Can indeed be puzzling.

History as we are told (WIKI references/myths we put OLB against) can be more fairy tale than OLB :-)

And that's why it is always a good thing to check the references on a Wiki page before you post a link to that page.

[NO-ID-EA]

When Hidde said in the OLB " writen at Liudwert in the 3449th year after Atland was submerged.....that is according to the christian reckoning the year 1256 "

what dating system do we think he was using  ?, from creation presumably , but Hebrew , or Byzantine or Persian were you in the north over-run by a mongul/turk invasion , did they use a sumerian dating system , it would not be the Julian calendar , and the gregorian did not start till the 1500's , and he is not using reign lengths.

so what would a 13th century fris be using at that time ?

that gave a 2193 BC reading of Atland sinking , is there a way we can backtrack , and know if the sinking of Atland is the biblical flood ?

[Abramelin]

The OLB mentions years and 12 months a year with their old Frisian names, and weeks and days.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 26 December 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

If you read that long quote of mine (from a website) a page or so back, you will know that Troy, Ulysses and the Sea peoples (and many peoples on the move within Europe, whole coutries depopulated, signs of massive floodings in Europe) happened around 1200 BC, and that all that was caused by some catastrophical event, some even suggest an impact or multiple impacts of comets (which would make Jürgen Spanuth very happy, btw).

So I am not talking about a gap between 1200 and 600 BCE, I am talking about the episode in the OLB about Ulysses or a decade before his arrival.

The OLB talks in detail about what was supposed to have happened around 2200 BCE - which was also written down in 600 BCE -, but not a word about what they now know really happened around 1200 BCE.

And maybe I'm mistaken, but was the upheaval at the Suez canal according to the OLB not 300 years or so earlier?

+++

EDIT:

It was actually 400 years earlier (Geertmen, Punjab).

.

Society for Interdisciplinary Studies
The oldest and most up to date society for catastrophist information and research

Proceedings of the Second SIS Cambridge Conference

'Natural Catastrophes During Bronze Age Civilisations:
Archaeological, geological, astronomical and cultural perspectives'.

A conference at Fitzwilliam College. Cambridge. 11th-13th July 1997
Organised by The Society for Interdisciplinary Studies.



The next group of papers is concerned with events which are slightly more recent, occurring around the time certain Late Bronze Age cultures came to an end. Firstly, Amos Nur argues that large earthquakes are likely to have contributed to the physical and political collapse of Late Bronze Age civilisations around the eastern Mediterranean. It is known that, every few centuries, massive earthquakes occur in bursts that sweep across about 1000 km of the eastern Mediterranean over a time-scale of approximately 50 years. In Nur's scenario, the burst at the end of the Late Bronze Age probably began between 1225-1175 BC, and made urban centres vulnerable to opportunist military attacks.

Then, Lars Franzén and Thomas Larsson present evidence from sites in Tunisia and Sweden showing that a major atmospheric cooling event, accompanied by excessive precipitation, which led to flooding, occurred around 1000 BC. Other sources indicate that the event was sudden and widespread, and the finding of small glassy spherules points to a possible impact origin. Franzén and Larsson suggest that an asteroid or comet of diameter in the range 0.5-5 km may have landed in the eastern Atlantic around 1000 BC, affecting in particular Europe, North Africa and the Middle East.

http://www.sis-group...uk/cambproc.htm


Btw, Alewyn used Peiser's date of 2200 BCE for his book about the OLB, but Peiser has adjusted that date to 2300 BCE (elsewhere it was said to be 2350 BCE):

Benny Peiser then summarises a survey he has made of around 500 reports of late 3rd millennium BC civilisation collapse and climate change, which shows a significant clustering around 2300 BC. Most sites in Europe, the Middle East, India and China where civilisation collapsed at this time show clear signs of natural disasters and/or rapid abandonment, whilst around the world there is strong evidence of water-level and vegetation changes, glacier and desert expansion, seismic activity, floods and extinctions of animal species. He concludes that only extraterrestrial bodies acting on terrestrial systems could produce the range of glaciological, geological and archaeological features reported.

http://www.sis-group...uk/cambproc.htm


That Peiser initially used the date of 2200 BCE could have been because he was influenced by someone who also talked during such a conference (or by articles sent to the SIS), and it was about the OLB :

http://www.sis-group...earch/node/oera

[Abramelin]

1200 BCE again:


Abstract
Identified in April of 1995, and still without geologic definitive prove of its origin, it was applied to the Panela crater (PE)a multidisciplinary study to investigate its cosmic origin. From geometric data of the crater it was possible to determine the size of the meteoroid, direction and angle of fall of the meteor that formed it. The ray (300 km) of vision of its troposphere explosion and the projection of 1000 km of the bolides’ trajectory from the impact place were analyzed in the Northeast region of Brazil. Archaeological sites with presence of meteoritic rock art theme were mapped in this region. The relation of the observer’s position, the parallax and his view of the phenomenon in the sky were investigated on these prehistoric registers, from different sites. The analyses of the rock arts of these prehistoric sites are coherent for a cosmic phenomenon, a Tunguska like (1908) event for the Panela crater formation, the Tupana event, around the year 1200 B.C.

http://www.scribd.co...stronomy-Expert

The Panela Crater(field) is located in Pernambuco, Brazil, at the north-eastern shouldertip of South America.

[Knul]

NO-ID-EA, on 27 December 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

When Hidde said in the OLB " writen at Liudwert in the 3449th year after Atland was submerged.....that is according to the christian reckoning the year 1256 "

what dating system do we think he was using  ?, from creation presumably , but Hebrew , or Byzantine or Persian were you in the north over-run by a mongul/turk invasion , did they use a sumerian dating system , it would not be the Julian calendar , and the gregorian did not start till the 1500's , and he is not using reign lengths.

so what would a 13th century fris be using at that time ?

that gave a 2193 BC reading of Atland sinking , is there a way we can backtrack , and know if the sinking of Atland is the biblical flood ?

The timetable of the OLB is based on the timetable published in each issue the Frisian Almanak (1836-1852). s. http://www.wumkes.nl...ndex.php?per=fa .

Edited by Knul, 27 December 2012 - 05:01 PM.