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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#31    Abramelin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:53 PM

Here's a photo of the cover of Overwijn's book:

Posted Image

I once bought it (20 or more years ago) on a flee market for 80 guilders (that's like 40 euros now).

I bought it, just to see for myself what it was all about. Up to then I had only read short excerpts and summaries, and lot's of criticism in the Dutch press.

Alewijn, this topic interests me a lot, despite the fact that I am skeptical, so don't be pissed off when I do not immediately accept your ideas and theories about it..


Btw, I think you used Sandbach's English translation of Ottema's book:

Posted Image

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/


EDIT:  someone needs to clean this site up; I now have to edit every post of mine because they all show up in HTML.

And a question, Alewijn:  where - according to your interpretation of the OLB - was Atland located?

Edited by Abramelin, 30 June 2010 - 07:37 PM.


#32    Abramelin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 08:07 PM

To me the Oera Linda Book is equal to the Piltdown hoax.

To anyone reading this thread: read the Oera Linda Book, you will love it. It's certainly not a waste of your time.

Read it like you once read Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings".

Thinking about Tolkien, he would have done a much better job.

He was very much informed about ancient Germanic and Celtic languages and myths.

If he had left out all the exaggerated magical crap, in a thousand years from now he would be seen as some ancient scribe putting ancient legends down in words on paper.

Even our dear ol'Sitchin would have to bow down for him.




/

Edited by Abramelin, 30 June 2010 - 08:14 PM.


#33    Abramelin

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 09:35 PM

But no, idiots prefer to live in fairy land.

Tir Nan Og

Avalon.

Valhalla

Heaven.

Well, I believe there once was a good land to live in, and it may have been the dry sea bed of the ancient  North Sea.

I also believe that Dogger Island was the last part of the Elyseum Fields, or Blessed Isles, to stay above sea level after Doggerland got flooded.

The Doggerlanders fled to  all corners of the earth when their home country got flooded;

I have seen om tv  what happened to the fisherman who returned home, after the tsunami hit Atjeh/Sumatra - Indonesia -  I have seen the face of the fisherman who returned home, a cameraman pushing his cam into his face, this fisherman seeing  the place he grew up in,  flattened, devastated, the place his family lived for generations, the place where his wife lived, his kids...... and he fell silent in front of the camera.......... he just stared at the horizon

I guess the camera man ejeculated... great news,eh?

Edited by Abramelin, 30 June 2010 - 09:52 PM.


#34    DieChecker

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:18 AM

If there is anything I have learned from H.P. Lovecraft, it is do not read ancient obscure books with ancient writings in them. You could summon Nyarlathotep or something worse.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#35    Oniomancer

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 03:21 AM

 Alewyn, on 26 June 2010 - 07:06 AM, said:

2. The OLB stated that before the disaster "the sun rose higher". This would indicate that they were closer to the equator. The book of Enoch (Noah's Great-Grandfather) stated that the "pillar of the earth shook from its foundation" and "the earth was violently shaken and became inclined" Various ancient scribes described the unmistakable effects of a cosmic impact.(Ipuwer, Neferti, etc.) Very prominent scientists such as Dr. Dallas Abbott et al have actually found evidence of this in 2005 (Please check the "Burckle Crater")

3. Professor Timo Niroma , on his website “The Third Millennium BC¬ (3100-2100 BC)” states “During the years 2200-2100 BC  the saltines of the soil rose markedly, possibly because of sea floods” at the time of the destruction of Akkadian Sumer (present day Syria). He also states:
“ Mesopotamia and other above-mentioned places were not the only victims of the 2200 BC event. As far away as in China, the Hongsan culture fell in pieces at this same time. This, if not anything else, is an indication of the mighty character of the event, and bolsters us to consider it as global. ”
One would think a strike powerful enough to increase or even cause the planet's axial tilt would do considerably more than cause a few earthquakes and tsunamis and result in more than just a vague pattern of archaeologically unremarkable shifts in cultural and geopolitical demographics. Surviving records from the period apparently make notable mention of crop failures and nomadic invasions but relatively little that would indicate a major disaster other than the current drought theory.

Quote

4. The OLB tells the story of a "Sea King" (not a monarch) by the name of Minnos that settled on Crete in ca. 1630 BC. In the 19th century nobody even knew that a "Minoan Civilization" ever existed.
You have that part entirely backwards. The so-called "Minoan" civilization was thus named after the legendary king Minos of crete, stories of whom were well known since antiquity.

Quote

I have tested the OLB against genetics, linguistics, theology, volcanism, climatology and many other modern discoveries and information that was not available in the 19th century and in every case the OLB was vindicated. Even ancient scribes such as Homer, Tacitus, Herodotus, Arrian, Ovid, Josephus and others support the claims made in the OLB.
As Abramalin noted, You don't find it the least bit questionable that by and large, the OLB corroborates the work of the ancients only after the fact?

"Apparently the Lemurians drank Schlitz." - Intrepid "Real People" reporter on finding a mysterious artifact in the depths of Mount Shasta.

#36    Abramelin

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 11:23 AM

Minos was known long before Evans discovered the Minoan civilization.

Minos reigned over Crete and the islands of the Aegean Sea three generations before the Trojan War. He lived at Knossos for periods of nine years, where he received instruction from Zeus in the legislation which he gave to the island. He was the author of the Cretan constitution and the founder of its naval supremacy.[5]

Herodotus 3.122; Thucydides 1.4.

http://en.wikipedia....nos#cite_note-4


But the OLB doesn't mention the eruption of Santorini (Mt. Thera) that must have killed many Cretans; that was discovered long after the OLB was published.






#37    Abramelin

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:31 PM

 Abramelin, on 01 July 2010 - 11:23 AM, said:

Minos was known long before Evans discovered the Minoan civilization.

Minos reigned over Crete and the islands of the Aegean Sea three generations before the Trojan War. He lived at Knossos for periods of nine years, where he received instruction from Zeus in the legislation which he gave to the island. He was the author of the Cretan constitution and the founder of its naval supremacy.[5]

Herodotus 3.122; Thucydides 1.4.

http://en.wikipedia....nos#cite_note-4


But the OLB doesn't mention the eruption of Santorini (Mt. Thera) that must have killed many Cretans; that was discovered long after the OLB was published.






Oh yes, I must correct myself here: the OLB mentions an earthquake in the Mediterranean around the time Mt Thera exploded. But we know now it was a huge eruption with tsunamis, and lots of ash and debri. Anyone sailing the eastern Mediterranean would very probably have perished, certainly those who were near Greece, Egypt and Crete.

Btw a few nice sites about the OLB:


FROM GODDESS TO KING - A History of Ancient Europe from the OERA LINDA BOOK

By Anthony Radford
1997 Ojai, California

http://www.earth-his...dford-intro.htm



http://www.zenrad.org/index0.html

Edited by Abramelin, 01 July 2010 - 01:34 PM.


#38    Abramelin

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 02:35 PM

 Abramelin, on 01 July 2010 - 01:31 PM, said:

Oh yes, I must correct myself here: the OLB mentions an earthquake in the Mediterranean around the time Mt Thera exploded. But we know now it was a huge eruption with tsunamis, and lots of ash and debri. Anyone sailing the eastern Mediterranean would very probably have perished, certainly those who were near Greece, Egypt and Crete.

Btw a few nice sites about the OLB:


FROM GODDESS TO KING - A History of Ancient Europe from the OERA LINDA BOOK

By Anthony Radford
1997 Ojai, California

http://www.earth-his...dford-intro.htm



http://www.zenrad.org/index0.html


The link to Radfords website was messed up, so here is the correct one: http://www.earth-his...dford-intro.htm


#39    Alewyn

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 05:24 AM

 Oniomancer, on 01 July 2010 - 03:21 AM, said:

One would think a strike powerful enough to increase or even cause the planet's axial tilt would do considerably more than cause a few earthquakes and tsunamis and result in more than just a vague pattern of archaeologically unremarkable shifts in cultural and geopolitical demographics. Surviving records from the period apparently make notable mention of crop failures and nomadic invasions but relatively little that would indicate a major disaster other than the current drought theory.


You have that part entirely backwards. The so-called "Minoan" civilization was thus named after the legendary king Minos of crete, stories of whom were well known since antiquity.


As Abramalin noted, You don't find it the least bit questionable that by and large, the OLB corroborates the work of the ancients only after the fact?



#40    Alewyn

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:11 AM

You all conveniently ignore the biggest clue in the Oera Linda Book: THE TIMING.
Even if all the  events were known in 1867, (which they were not), the dates of these were definitely not known and were only established in the 20th and 21st centuries.
eg 2193 BC, The Middle Minoan Period(ca 1600 BC), The Fall of Troy (ca 1190 BC), The Eruption Of Thera (ca 1553 -1556 BC), The arrival of Westerners in India (ca 1500 BC). The  
list goes on and on. How did the OLB manage to get all these right?
You were told that the OLB is a fake and you just follow blindly. Why don't you start thinking for yourselfs instead of just bleating "four feet good, two feet bad!"
No, instead you resort to name calling and foul language - not what I would call a mature, intellectual and civilized debate.
"Deur hard te bulk laat esel sy stem hoor"


#41    cormac mac airt

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 10:23 AM

Quote

The Eruption Of Thera (ca 1553 - 1556 BC)

Quote

How did the OLB manage to get all these right?

They didn't. Just this example alone is shown to be in error, by about 60 years.

Quote

Two olive branches buried by a Minoan-era eruption of the volcano on the island of Thera (modern-day Santorini) have enabled precise radiocarbon dating of the catastrophe to 1613 BC, with an error margin of plus or minus 10 years, according to two researchers who presented conclusions of their previously published research during an event on Tuesday at the Danish Archaeological Institute of Athens.

Thera volcano in 1613 BC

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#42    Alewyn

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:24 AM

 cormac mac airt, on 02 July 2010 - 10:23 AM, said:

They didn't. Just this example alone is shown to be in error, by about 60 years.



Thera volcano in 1613 BC

cormac

You are quite correct. Herewith some extracts from my book:
1. "Radiocarbon analyses of vegetative material found in the area were undertaken by three separate laboratories in Oxford, Vienna and Heidelberg. They all concluded, as mentioned before, that the eruption took place between 1627 and 1613 BC with a 95% probability of accuracy.
Archaeologists, on the other hand, base their findings on artefacts from their excavations and Late Bronze Age chronologies which clearly indicate that the eruption must have taken place some time later between 1550 and 1500 BC."

2. "It is interesting to note that the 60 meter-high tephra layer on Santorini displays three identifiable layers which seem to represent different phases of eruption."

3. " The proposed 1628 BC eruption of Thera would have been the Big One. The volcano, however, remained active and produced further but less violent eruptions in 1553 BC and 1121 BC."

According to the OLB, the founding of Athens and the settlement on Crete happened after 1628 BC. So, they could not have experienced the eruption first hand. The book, however, does record "Wild waves" and "many a good ship was lost" in ca 1627/28 BC.

The point here is, if the OLB was a hoax written in the 19th century, how could they even have come closely to this date or even remotely hinted at the effects of a volcanic eruption.

I can understand that one can question a single date but if you look at the sum total of all the events and dates, the balance of probabilities strongly suggests that the OLB is authentic.


#43    Abramelin

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:27 AM

 Alewyn, on 02 July 2010 - 08:11 AM, said:

You all conveniently ignore the biggest clue in the Oera Linda Book: THE TIMING.
Even if all the  events were known in 1867, (which they were not), the dates of these were definitely not known and were only established in the 20th and 21st centuries.
eg 2193 BC, The Middle Minoan Period(ca 1600 BC), The Fall of Troy (ca 1190 BC), The Eruption Of Thera (ca 1553 -1556 BC), The arrival of Westerners in India (ca 1500 BC). The  
list goes on and on. How did the OLB manage to get all these right?
You were told that the OLB is a fake and you just follow blindly. Why don't you start thinking for yourselfs instead of just bleating "four feet good, two feet bad!"
No, instead you resort to name calling and foul language - not what I would call a mature, intellectual and civilized debate.
"Deur hard te bulk laat esel sy stem hoor"


I went back to former posts, and I didn't  see any faul language or namecalling, unless you mean the 'idiots' in one of my posts, but that wasn't even meant for you.

--

OK. The OLB is very precise with it's dates of events. So, if science now finds out a very precise date for such an event, and when their dates differ in decades or a generation of those given by the OLB, then your proof is gone.

EDIT I:

I see you posted already again.

Could you please quote from the text (like about those wild waves and lost ships)?

And could you please also tell us who's translation you have been using?

.

EDIT II :

I found it myself:


Ch XXII: HOW THE BAD TIME CAME.

2. In the midst of this stillness the Earth began to tremble as if she was dying. The mountains opened to vomit forth fire and flames. Some sank into the bosom of the Earth, and in other places mountains rose out of the plain.

Aldland, called Atland by the Sturian navigators who lived there, disappeared, and the wild waves rose so high over hill and dale that everything was buried in the sea. Many people were swallowed up by the Earth, and others who had escaped the fire perished in the water.

3. It was also in Finda's land that the Earth vomited fire, and in Twiskland (Germany). Whole forests were burned one after the other, and when the wind blew from that quarter our land was covered with ashes. Rivers changed their course, and at their mouths new islands were formed of sand and drift.

http://www.earth-his.../oera-intro.htm


This is about the destruction of Atland. Does that mean Atland was in the Mediterranean, according to you?

Atland was destroyed on 2193 BC, according to the OLB.
Thera erupted and destroyed Crete in around 1600 BC.

These appear to me as 2 different events.
.

Edited by Abramelin, 02 July 2010 - 11:41 AM.


#44    Alewyn

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 11:49 AM

 Abramelin, on 02 July 2010 - 11:27 AM, said:

I
Could you please quote from the text (like about those wild waves and lost ships)?

And could you please also tell us who's translation you have been using?

.

EDIT II :

I found it myself:


Ch XXII: HOW THE BAD TIME CAME.

2. In the midst of this stillness the Earth began to tremble as if she was dying. The mountains opened to vomit forth fire and flames. Some sank into the bosom of the Earth, and in other places mountains rose out of the plain.

Aldland, called Atland by the Sturian navigators who lived there, disappeared, and the wild waves rose so high over hill and dale that everything was buried in the sea. Many people were swallowed up by the Earth, and others who had escaped the fire perished in the water.

3. It was also in Finda's land that the Earth vomited fire, and in Twiskland (Germany). Whole forests were burned one after the other, and when the wind blew from that quarter our land was covered with ashes. Rivers changed their course, and at their mouths new islands were formed of sand and drift.

http://www.earth-his.../oera-intro.htm


This is about the destruction of Atland. Does that mean Atland was in the Mediterranean, according to you?

.

The "wild waves" I was referring to is in Chapter XXVI of "The Book of Adela's Followers"

"4. In the year 563 ..." i.e 1630 BC

Par. 8 "...At the full moon, when the sea was stormy, she ran over the wild waves, calling to the navigators that they would all be lost if they did not worship her. Then she blinded their eyes, so that they mistook land for water and water for land, and in this way many a good ship was totally lost."

I am using Sandbach's translation


#45    Abramelin

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 12:22 PM

 Alewyn, on 02 July 2010 - 11:49 AM, said:

The "wild waves" I was referring to is in Chapter XXVI of "The Book of Adela's Followers"

"4. In the year 563 ..." i.e 1630 BC

Par. 8 "...At the full moon, when the sea was stormy, she ran over the wild waves, calling to the navigators that they would all be lost if they did not worship her. Then she blinded their eyes, so that they mistook land for water and water for land, and in this way many a good ship was totally lost."

I am using Sandbach's translation


OK, it's Sandbach's.


You quoted a few sentences from Chapter XXVI of "The Book of Adela's Followers".


Now I will give a larger quote:



Now We Will Write About the War Between the Burgtmaid Kalta and Minerva And how we thereby lost all our southern lands and Britain to the Gauls:

Near the southern mouth of the Rhine and the Scheldt there are seven islands, named after Frya’s seven virgins of the week. In the middle of one island is the city of Walhallagara and on the walls of this city the following history is inscribed. Above it are the words, "Read, learn, and watch."

Five hundred and sixty-three years after the submersion of Atland - that is, 1,600 years before Christ - a wise town priestess presided here, whose name was Minerva - called by the sailors Nyhellenia. This name was well chosen, for her counsels were new and clear above all others.

On the other side of the Scheldt, at Flyburgt, Sijred presided. This maiden was full of tricks. Her face was beautiful, and her tongue was nimble; but the advice that she gave was always conveyed in mysterious terms. Therefore the mariners called her Kalta, and the landsmen thought it was a title. In the last will of the dead Mother, Rosamond was named first, Minerva second, and Sijred third in succession. Minerva did not mind that, but Sijred was very much offended. Like a foreign princess, she wished to be honored, feared, and worshipped; but Minerva only desired to be loved. At last all the sailors, even from Denmark and Flymeer, did homage to her.

This hurt Sijred, because she wanted to excel Minerva. In order to give an impression of her great watchfulness, she had a c*** put on her banner. So then Minerva went and put a sheep dog and an owl on her banner. "The dog," she said, "guards his master and his flock, and the owl watches that the mice shall not devastate the fields; but the c*** in his lewdness and his pride is only fit to murder his nearest relations."

When Kalta found that her scheme had failed she was still more vexed, so she secretly sent for the Magyars to teach her conjuring. When she had had enough of this she threw herself into the hands of the Gauls; but all her bad practices did not improve her position.

When she saw that the sailors kept more and more aloof from her, she tried to win them back by fear. At the full moon, when the sea was stormy, she ran over the wild waves, calling to the sailors that they would all be lost if they did not worship her. Then she blinded their eyes, so that they mistook land for water and water for land, and in this way many a good ship was totally lost. At the first war-feast, when all her countrymen were armed, she brought casks of beer, which she had drugged. When they were all drunk, she mounted her war-horse, leaning her head upon her spear. Sunrise could not be more beautiful. When she saw that the eyes of all were fixed upon her, she opened her lips and said:

http://www.zenrad.or...1/chapter07.htm


When I read this, I do not get the impression the event has anything to do with Crete or Thera or even the Mediterranean, but instead with the south-west coast of the present Netherlands.

The OLB image of Nyhellenia is based on the image of the Greek goddess Athena. Nehalennia, however, was depicted differently: with a ship under her left foot, a dog by her side, and apples (or sometimes loafs of bread) in her hand. The first statues were found in the 17th century near Domburg in The Netherlands.
This sea goddess was being venerated by many sailors around the North Sea, and her name is very probably of pre-Indo European origin.