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Ecuador grants Wikileaks founder asylum

wikileaks ecuador julian assange

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#151    Babe Ruth

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:32 PM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 22 August 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

And I'd be embarrassed to say that I knew everything about this case without having been there or without having seen all the facts.

You are acting upon assumptions, and treating them as though they are the irrevocable truth. You can't prove he didn't molest those women, and you can't prove Sweden and America invented to whole story just to get him extradited.

And I know I can't prove he raped or abused those women, but I'm not saying he did. I'm saying he should face trial for it. Surely you must agree that allegations of sexual assault cannot be ignored?

I've been following Assange for several years now, a time before he got in trouble with the rape charges.  I wanted to contribute to WikiLeaks, but found out I could not because Visa and Mastercard black-balled the organization.  That was when I knew something was up.  That's when I realized that WikiLeaks was a threat to some very powerful interests.

I was following it when he retained a British barrister to handle the case.  He was quite good, and made it clear they were HAPPY to cooperate with the Swedish authorities in their "new" investigation, after the "old" one was declared not a case by the first Swedish prosecutor.

I also follow the parallel case, Bradley Manning.  Having served in the US Army myself, I was shocked when Manning's C-in-C declared him guilty, in public, before any trial.

So, I understand full well that as Orwell predicted, in a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a radical act.  So radical that ordinary folks cannot contribute to the cause of Wikileaks, so radical that the entire federal government, including congresscritters, have called for Assange's head.

Being American, I've always respected the British for their devotion to liberty with the Magna Carta and strong history of juries standing for justice and individual rights.  But I must admit that my faith in the British government has been sorely tested by this turn of events.

"innocent until proven guilty" used to mean something, but not no mo.  Not here in the US and certainly not in Britain.

Screw the Magna Carta, we're more into lynch mobs, is the message one gets here across the Atlantic. :innocent:


#152    tyrant lizard

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 08:04 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 22 August 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

I've been following Assange for several years now, a time before he got in trouble with the rape charges.  I wanted to contribute to WikiLeaks, but found out I could not because Visa and Mastercard black-balled the organization.  That was when I knew something was up.  That's when I realized that WikiLeaks was a threat to some very powerful interests.

I was following it when he retained a British barrister to handle the case.  He was quite good, and made it clear they were HAPPY to cooperate with the Swedish authorities in their "new" investigation, after the "old" one was declared not a case by the first Swedish prosecutor.

I also follow the parallel case, Bradley Manning.  Having served in the US Army myself, I was shocked when Manning's C-in-C declared him guilty, in public, before any trial.

So, I understand full well that as Orwell predicted, in a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a radical act.  So radical that ordinary folks cannot contribute to the cause of Wikileaks, so radical that the entire federal government, including congresscritters, have called for Assange's head.

Being American, I've always respected the British for their devotion to liberty with the Magna Carta and strong history of juries standing for justice and individual rights.  But I must admit that my faith in the British government has been sorely tested by this turn of events.

"innocent until proven guilty" used to mean something, but not no mo.  Not here in the US and certainly not in Britain.

Screw the Magna Carta, we're more into lynch mobs, is the message one gets here across the Atlantic. :innocent:
I believe you've made your point.

But the question here is more about the law in Sweden, if he is extradited there.

Do you think he should be let go and the charges forgotten about. Someone in Sweden should say to those girls, no, the brits are letting him go because there are political ramifications here and it would look dodgy if we tried him because it's quite convenient for the Americans.


#153    Babe Ruth

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:24 PM

No sir, I do NOT think he should be 'let go' regarding the allegations.  On the contrary, they should be investigated.  They should determine whether the first prosecutor in Sweden was correct, or the second one.

Further, things should be kept in perspective, peculiar Swedish laws notwithstanding.  IF it really is a case of a defective condom, or whatever on earth it happens to be, resolve the issue and let's move along.

It seems extremely obvious that Assange is wanted for his exposing crimes of the US Government.  That is why Feinstein, Biden, and a few other very high US officials have called for his head.  The rape story is merely window dressing, and most likely trumped up for political reasons.


#154    hetrodoxly

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:37 PM

name='Babe Ruth' timestamp='1345746267' post='4428660']

Quote

No sir, I do NOT think he should be 'let go' regarding the allegations.  On the contrary, they should be investigated.  They should determine whether the first prosecutor in Sweden was correct, or the second one.
Sweden is following it's normal legal process, you think this should be changed for Assange?

Quote

It seems extremely obvious that Assange trumped up for political reasons.
How did they manage to do this. are you suggesting these women work for "Swedish secret police" and it just so happened Assange had sex with them?

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#155    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:48 PM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 23 August 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

name='Babe Ruth' timestamp='1345746267' post='4428660']

How did they manage to do this. are you suggesting these women work for "Swedish secret police" and it just so happened Assange had sex with them?

Perhaps the police knew Assange had visited these prostitutes and convinced (bribed) them to say he had sex without a condom?

Who knew consensual sex is now classed as rape in Sweden if a condom breaks?


#156    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 11:12 AM

We are Women Against Rape but we do not want Julian Assange extradited


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When Julian Assange was first arrested, we were struck by the unusual zeal with which he was being pursued for rape allegations.
It seems even clearer now, that the allegations against him are a smokescreen behind which a number of governments are trying to clamp down on WikiLeaks for having audaciously revealed to the public their secret planning of wars and occupations with their attendant rape, murder and destruction.
Justice for an accused rapist does not deny justice for his accusers. But in this case justice is being denied both to accusers and accused.
The judicial process has been corrupted. On the one hand, the names of the women have been circulated on the internet; they have been trashed, accused of setting a "honey trap", and seen their allegations dismissed as "not real rape". On the other hand, Assange is dealt with by much of the media as if he were guilty, though he has not even been charged. It is not for us to decide whether or not the allegations are true and whether what happened amounts to rape or sexual violence – we don't have all the facts and what has been said so far has not been tested. But we do know that rape victims' right to anonymity and defendants' right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty are both crucial to a just judicial process.

Continued: http://www.guardian....-julian-assange


#157    Babe Ruth

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:52 PM

Wow, excellent piece from The Guardian.  I would say that sums up my position on this issue very precisely! :tu:

I had forgotten all about the Pinochet story there in England.  Yes, he was protected because he was a US stooge.

Assange is a US enemy, so he is harassed and threatened.  It is pure political theater, with some measure of desperation being demonstrated by the Brits, Sweden and US.


#158    tyrant lizard

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 24 August 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Wow, excellent piece from The Guardian.  I would say that sums up my position on this issue very precisely! :tu:

I had forgotten all about the Pinochet story there in England.  Yes, he was protected because he was a US stooge.

Assange is a US enemy, so he is harassed and threatened.  It is pure political theater, with some measure of desperation being demonstrated by the Brits, Sweden and US.
As an ally to Sweden, Britain would be expected to extradite someone who they were asking for. It does't make political sense for them to refuse.

One for the CTs. If the USA want him to shut up so bad why don't they just top him like they did to JFK, Martin Luthor King, 3000 American citizens on 9/11, Benazir Bhutto, Jack Ruby and Jimmy Hoffer?


#159    Br Cornelius

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

View Posttyrant lizard, on 24 August 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

As an ally to Sweden, Britain would be expected to extradite someone who they were asking for. It does't make political sense for them to refuse.

One for the CTs. If the USA want him to shut up so bad why don't they just top him like they did to JFK, Martin Luthor King, 3000 American citizens on 9/11, Benazir Bhutto, Jack Ruby and Jimmy Hoffer?

Do you think that wouldn't be seen as a bit to obvious in the circumstances ??
America likes to project the impression of been a civilized country.

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#160    tyrant lizard

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:52 PM

how convenient


#161    hetrodoxly

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:26 PM

View PostExpandMyMind, on 24 August 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

We are Women Against Rape but we do not want Julian Assange extradited




Continued: http://www.guardian....-julian-assange
It's strange this isn't mentioned on the "Women Against Rape" (what a stupid name, is this to counteract the "women for rape" group) website, Ooh! hang on these women have probably been infiltrated by the very special top secret undercover no one knows specially trained Assange groupies some boards are full of them.

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#162    Babe Ruth

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:14 PM

...and now it turns out an alert young journalist/photographer has captured pictures of police notes, and that shows yet again how Assange is just a political target.  He has dared to defy the 2 most powerful governments, and the most belligerent, in the world.

:tsu:

If they ever make a movie of this, surely Hugh Grant would play the unfortunate cop. :yes:


#163    Mallaliak

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:40 AM

So while notes and photographs are leaked all around of the involved people here, Assange becomes more the victim, and not the women who's names, adresses and images are leaked?

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#164    ExpandMyMind

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 07:01 AM

View PostMallaliak, on 27 August 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

So while notes and photographs are leaked all around of the involved people here, Assange becomes more the victim, and not the women who's names, adresses and images are leaked?
Th

The point is that those details were intentionally leaked.


#165    Babe Ruth

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

Precisely.  The 2 women are political pawns, willing to play along with the powerful people who have a stake in this.  The powerful people whose agenda is threatened by the revelation of government crimes.






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