11638 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 14 March 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I posted this in Trojans were Basques? topic but felt it could be a connection in this topic too. If the people of Southern Belgium, who may have been Fryans were the Veneti, it could be the sailors of this area were in Italy and had 'factories'.

Well, if you can prove these Veneti were around 4000 years ago, it may be.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 14 March 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

For Alewyn:




And you quoted this post of mine in a subsequent post... and left out what I had found out:

http://www.unexplain...6

You even managed to distort/misread my post by saying I left out a possibility... while in reality I actually mentioned YOUR theory and YOUR name.

.

And this one is from Puzz:

The Puzzler, on 24 December 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

Looking for dates outside of the OLB, this was an interesting find. I'm not concerned about the ideas in the website, just the mention of the date. NOT when the Flood occurred but when 'the breaking up of the continents took place' - the year Peleg was born. 2194BC.

According to the genealogy of Genesis, the flood took place 1,752 (2294 B.C.) years after Adam’s creation. The breaking up of the continents took place 1,853 (2194 B.C.) years after Adam’s creation in the year that Peleg was born. Peleg’s name means to divide.

http://www.layevange...-10/sec10-1.htm

The breaking up of the continents, which could be a description of what the OLB sounds like - really more so than a Flood imo.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 14 March 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Well, if you can prove these Veneti were around 4000 years ago, it may be.

For starters:

Abramelin, on 25 October 2010 - 10:26 AM, said:

I showed you that area was called the "Frisische Haff" in Germa, or Frisian Bay.

Then we have those Prussians or Pruteni speaking a Brittanic language according to Tacitus...

Frisians to the west of Denmark related to Brittons, Prussians/ Pruteni to the east of Denmark speaking a Britton language.... Preteni/Pruteni.


It appears to me that at some time, a people with the hypothetical name of "Phruisians" migrated form Denmark/South Sweden. One part of that tribe went west and became known as the Frisians, others went east and became known as the Prusians. The North Sea was known as the Mare Frisia (Frisian Sea), part of the Baltic was known as the Frisian Bay.



.

According to Julius Pokorný, the ethnonym Venetī (singular *Venetos) is derived from Proto Indo-European root *u̯en- 'to strive; to wish for, to love'. As shown by the comparative material, Germanic languages had two terms of different origin: Old High German Winida 'Wende' points to Pre-Germanic *Venétos, while Lat.-Germ. Venedi (as attested in Tacitus) and Old English Winedas 'Wends' call for Pre-Germanic *Venetós. Etymologically related words include Latin venus, -eris 'love, passion, grace'; Sanskrit vanas- 'lust, zest', vani- 'wish, desire'; Old Irish fine (< Proto-Celtic *venjā) 'kinship, kinfolk, alliance, tribe, family'; Old Norse vinr, Old Saxon, Old High German wini, Old Frisian, Old English wine 'Friend'.

-

It has been argued that the Veneti were a centum Indo-European people, rather than Baltic-speakers. Zbigniew Gołąb considers that the hydronyms of the Vistula and Odra river basins had a North-West Indo-European character with close affinities to the Italo-Celtic branch, but different from the Germanic branch, and show resemblances to those attested in the area of the Adriatic Veneti (in Northeastern Italy) as well as those attested in the Western Balkans that are attributed to Illyrians, which suggests points to a possible connection between these ancient Indo-European peoples.[9] However, according to Steinacher, the Adriatic Veneti, the Veneti of Gaul and the North Balkan/Paphlagonian Enetoi mentioned by Herodotus and Appian were not related to each other, nor to the Veneti/Venedi mentioned by Tacitus, Pliny and Ptolemy.

-


http://en.wikipedia..../Vistula_Veneti


The Vistula Lagoon (Polish: Zalew Wiślany; Russian: Калининградский залив or Kaliningradskiy Zaliv; German: Frisches Haff; Lithuanian: Aistmarės) is a fresh water lagoon on the Baltic Sea separated from Gdańsk Bay by the Vistula Spit. It is sometimes known as the Vistula Bay or Vistula Gulf. The modern German name, Frisches Haff, is derived from an earlier form, Friesisches Haff.[1] Both this term and the earlier Polish name Zatoka Fryska[2] translate "Frisian Bay". In historical contexts, Frisches Haff can also refer to the Oder Lagoon.

http://en.wikipedia..../Vistula_Lagoon

Abramelin, on 29 December 2011 - 04:02 PM, said:

(...) Frisische Haff, and my wordplay with "Prussian" (Phruisi > Frisii > Parisii > and so on. You also might want to search this thread for "Pruteni"). Well, Puzz certainly posted a lot too about the Baltic area.

Abramelin, on 16 April 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

The thing with the Prussians is this:

-1- they had developed their own script (like the Frya people);
-2- they were known under many names (like the Frya people);
-3- they traded with Greece, Rome, Scandinavia and England (like the Frya people);
-4- they were 'most humane people' (like the Frya people);
-5- they originally had a female pantheon (3 goddesses) (close to what the Frya people believed in);
-6- they were a pre-Baltic tribe, and later one of those Baltic tribes: "The Balts entered history in the early 2nd millennium BC" (like the Frya people)
-7- before their language shifted to a Finno-Ugric language, they spoke a Pretonic (PrUtonic) language (according to Tacitus) or a language similar to what the Old Frisians, and of course, the Old English spoke.

Makes one think, eh?


.................Pharsii?? Pharismanes??
......................^
......................^
Frisians << Phruisians >> Prussians
......................V
......................V
.................Parisii


.

A nice droodle:

 fries-1.gif   96.88K   3 downloads

Yellow arrow: Veneti
Red arrow: "Phruissi"

Now 'all' we have to do is prove these Veneti were related to ancient Frisians and/or came from Southern-Sweden/Denmark... preferable 3500+ years ago...

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 March 2012 - 04:50 PM.

[Abramelin]

Some other interesting titbits concerning these "Veneti":

Sunday, July 25, 2010
Venetian DNA: a first look

Readers of this blog may recall several posts over the years concerning our quest to trace the origins of the Venetians using DNA analyses (type "dna" in the search box on the right of the blog to see them all). There are competing theories and references to the legendary origins of the Veneti (or Enetoi?).

We're either originally from Paphlagonia, or from Lusatia (Poland) and we may or may not be related to the Veneti of Gaul (Britanny) mentioned by none other than Julius Caesar (see detailed map online). Since we learned that a study of DNA haplogroups may shed light on these hypotheses, we launched our Venice DNA Project in 2008.

-

While I was in Barcelona in June to visit Prof. David Comas, I perchance met a young Polish researcher, Krzyszof Rebala, who - by pure luck - happens to be focusing his attention on the Venedi of Poland, which he has thoroughly studied without finding any distinguishing trait to clearly separate them from other European populations.  So far then, the Venetians we sampled  do not seem to have any really striking DNA patterns nor do they seem to be related to the Wends of Lusatia, which paradoxically might give fuel to the controversial Venetic theory of a pre-celtic settlement of Veneti across the heart of Europe.

http://venice2point0...netian-dna.html



The Unelli are the Veneli as per the link. Story is that they arrived in Caux around 4000BC as the Uenne(e) a finnish people who spoke a cyro-britonic language and later changed to a brito-Belgic language.
U can become V , as in ancient times many languages replaced vowels or placed an extra letter in front of tribes names.

The Baltic Venedi as per tacticus notes, also spoke a britonic language similar to Welsh
These Venedi where letts ( finland originally) and noted as below....read some pages before and after http://books.google....i letts&f=false
These Venedi became the Prussians.

edit on post #113
Although Tacticus says the venedi spoke a britonic language like welsh, I found other modern writers saying they spoke Proto-Baltic which is different to proto-slavic and balto-slavic ( I do not know which order in time these languages appeared. Anyway below is the dialects and as previous post, the Venedi must have become the Prussians as Proto-baltic is nearly exactly the same as old-prussian.

=

My theory is that the Romans first saw the Adriatic Veneti a tribe from Illyrian Istria, who came from the sea and took over the plains of the Veneto.

The Roman word for the Sea as its colour of blue-green is VENETUS
Latin verb 'venire' (to come).A connection with the Latin word
venetus, meaning 'sea-blue'.

They then named tribes who where near the sea that did not fit the local people in customs or languages Veneti/venedi, Like the balts of Venedi in old prussia, the armorica veneti of breton, who seem to be a welsh people.

http://www.eupedia.c...66-Veneti/page5


 venet.jpg   54.63K   3 downloads


venetus
venetus, venetum, veneta
adjective
1.blue
2.sea blue
3.blue-green (Cal)
Age: In use throughout the ages or unknown
Subject: All or none
Region: All or none
Frequency: Uncommon (2 or 3 citations)
Source: Oxford Latin Dictionary, 1982 (OLD)

http://latinlookup.c...d/38500/venetus

Lol, now we can only 'hope' these Romans called all those people "Veneti" because of their blue eyes and/or because they practically lived on the seas.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 14 March 2012 - 07:23 PM.

[Otharus]

Allow me some experimenting.



More serious stuff coming up.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 14 March 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Some other interesting titbits concerning these "Veneti":

Sunday, July 25, 2010
Venetian DNA: a first look

Readers of this blog may recall several posts over the years concerning our quest to trace the origins of the Venetians using DNA analyses (type "dna" in the search box on the right of the blog to see them all). There are competing theories and references to the legendary origins of the Veneti (or Enetoi?).

We're either originally from Paphlagonia, or from Lusatia (Poland) and we may or may not be related to the Veneti of Gaul (Britanny) mentioned by none other than Julius Caesar (see detailed map online). Since we learned that a study of DNA haplogroups may shed light on these hypotheses, we launched our Venice DNA Project in 2008.

-

While I was in Barcelona in June to visit Prof. David Comas, I perchance met a young Polish researcher, Krzyszof Rebala, who - by pure luck - happens to be focusing his attention on the Venedi of Poland, which he has thoroughly studied without finding any distinguishing trait to clearly separate them from other European populations.  So far then, the Venetians we sampled  do not seem to have any really striking DNA patterns nor do they seem to be related to the Wends of Lusatia, which paradoxically might give fuel to the controversial Venetic theory of a pre-celtic settlement of Veneti across the heart of Europe.

http://venice2point0...netian-dna.html



The Unelli are the Veneli as per the link. Story is that they arrived in Caux around 4000BC as the Uenne(e) a finnish people who spoke a cyro-britonic language and later changed to a brito-Belgic language.
U can become V , as in ancient times many languages replaced vowels or placed an extra letter in front of tribes names.

The Baltic Venedi as per tacticus notes, also spoke a britonic language similar to Welsh
These Venedi where letts ( finland originally) and noted as below....read some pages before and after http://books.google....i letts&f=false
These Venedi became the Prussians.

edit on post #113
Although Tacticus says the venedi spoke a britonic language like welsh, I found other modern writers saying they spoke Proto-Baltic which is different to proto-slavic and balto-slavic ( I do not know which order in time these languages appeared. Anyway below is the dialects and as previous post, the Venedi must have become the Prussians as Proto-baltic is nearly exactly the same as old-prussian.

=

My theory is that the Romans first saw the Adriatic Veneti a tribe from Illyrian Istria, who came from the sea and took over the plains of the Veneto.

The Roman word for the Sea as its colour of blue-green is VENETUS
Latin verb 'venire' (to come).A connection with the Latin word
venetus, meaning 'sea-blue'.

They then named tribes who where near the sea that did not fit the local people in customs or languages Veneti/venedi, Like the balts of Venedi in old prussia, the armorica veneti of breton, who seem to be a welsh people.

http://www.eupedia.c...66-Veneti/page5


venet.jpg


venetus
venetus, venetum, veneta
adjective
1.blue
2.sea blue
3.blue-green (Cal)
Age: In use throughout the ages or unknown
Subject: All or none
Region: All or none
Frequency: Uncommon (2 or 3 citations)
Source: Oxford Latin Dictionary, 1982 (OLD)

http://latinlookup.c...d/38500/venetus

Lol, now we can only 'hope' these Romans called all those people "Veneti" because of their blue eyes and/or because they practically lived on the seas.

.

Vistula Veneti as well (how could I forget them??!) - that seems to give a direct link for the amber then.


Etymologically related words include Latin venus, -eris 'love, passion, grace'; Sanskrit vanas- 'lust, zest', vani- 'wish, desire'; Old Irish fine (< Proto-Celtic *venjā) 'kinship, kinfolk, alliance, tribe, family'; Old Norse vinr, Old Saxon, Old High German wini, Old Frisian, Old English wine 'Friend'.


Latin Venetis as blue-green seems to just be a colour word in reference to the area of Venice itself - Venetian Blue is a blue-green colour. Venetis is more than likely a word that corresponds to that.

venetian blue

venetian blue - Definition of venetian blue , meaning of venetian blue

n A strong blue to greenish blue
http://www.definition-of.net/veneti

Venice:The name is derived from the ancient Veneti people who inhabited the region by the 10th century B.C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice

So, it's not like the Romans named the area Venice because it was blue-green sea - that word for green/blue imo comes later.

Edited by The Puzzler, 14 March 2012 - 10:54 PM.

[The Puzzler]

The ancient Veneti spoke Venetic, an extinct Indo-European language which is attested in approximately 300 short inscriptions dating from the 6th to 1st centuries BC. Venetic appears to share several similarities with Latin and the Italic languages, but also has some affinities with other IE languages, especially Germanic and Celtic. Venetic should not be confused with Venetian, a Romance language presently spoken in the region.

In Italy, these ancient people are also referred to as Paleoveneti to distinguish them from the modern-day inhabitants of the Veneto region, called Veneti in Italian.[2] They are unrelated to the Gaulish Veneti, a Celtic tribe formerly living on the coast of Brittany, despite confusion by classical scholar Strabo (see the History section below).

How do they know they are unrelated to the Gaulish Veneti? They have Germanic and Celtic affinities in their language but are not related to these Gaulish Veneti, I'd like to know how they know this.

^ Strabo, Geography, Book IV, Chapter 4: "It is these Veneti [the Gallic tribe of the Belgae], I think, who settled the colony that is on the Adriatic (for about all the Celti that are in Italy migrated from the transalpine land, just as did the Boii and Senones), although, on account of the likeness of name, people call them Paphlagonians. I do not speak positively, however, for with reference to such matters probability suffices." Book V, Chapter 1: "Concerning the Heneti there are two different accounts: Some say that the Heneti too are colonists of those Celti of like name who live on the ocean-coast; while others say that certain of the Heneti of Paphlagonia escaped hither with Antenor from the Trojan war, and, as testimony in this, adduce their devotion to the breeding of horses — a devotion which now, indeed, has wholly disappeared, although formerly it was prized among them, from the fact of their ancient rivalry in the matter of producing mares for mule-breeding." Book 13, Chapter 1: "At any rate, Sophocles says that [...] Antenor and his children safely escaped to Thrace with the survivors of the Heneti, and from there got across to the Adriatic Henetice, as it is called."

As for the 2nd one this could be the original story as to how Trojans got into the area of Rome...horses were bred on the Venetian plains in ancient times. Around 4000BC there was a marine transgression showing where flooding occurred over the plain. For all we know it could be the Trojans had come from this area in the first place and actually settled in Asia Minor - since one myth has Dardanus as being a Tyrhennian prince. It's hard to know how old some of these stories are.


The last line of the Iliad is...

"Thus, then, did they celebrate the funeral of Hector tamer of horses"

adduce their devotion to the breeding of horses — a devotion which now, indeed, has wholly disappeared, although formerly it was prized among them, from the fact of their ancient rivalry in the matter of producing mares for mule-breeding."

Livius kinda ties some strings together as best he can but maybe has an answer in there...

^ Titus Livius, Ab Urbe Condita, Book 1, Chapter 1: "Antenor sailed into the furthest part of the Adriatic, accompanied by a number of Enetians who had been driven from Paphlagonia by a revolution and after losing their king Pylaemenes before Troy were looking for a settlement and a leader. The combined force of Enetians and Trojans defeated the Euganei, who dwelt between the sea and the Alps and occupied their land. The place where they disembarked was called Troy, and the name was extended to the surrounding district; the whole nation were called Veneti."

The area they disembarked in the plains of Venice they called Troy.

Strabo gives a good reason for his thoughts though - the Celts in the area had all migrated down from the transalpine lands.

-------------

Edit: The Euganei (fr. Lat. Euganei, Euganeorum; cf. Gr. εὐγενής (eugenēs) 'well-born') is a semi-mythical proto-Italic ethnic group that dwelt an area among Adriatic Sea and Rhaetian Alps. Subsequently, they were driven by the Adriatic Veneti to an area between the river Adige and Lake Como, where they remained until the early Roman Empire.[1].

They were very probably a Pre-Indo-European people, ethnically related with the Ingauni Ligurians, as proved by the similarity of the names. According to Pliny the Elder the Stoni people from Trentino were of the same stock as the Euganei.

Cato the Elder, in the lost book of Origines, counted among the major tribes Euganeans the Triumplini of Valtrompia and the Camunni of Val Camonica.[2]

According to Livy they were defeated by the Adriatic Veneti and the Trojans. Their descendants settled west of the Athesis (Adige) river, around the lakes Sebinus, Edrus, and Benacus, where they occupied 34 towns, which were admitted by Augustus to the rights of Latin cities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euganei

Edited by The Puzzler, 15 March 2012 - 12:02 AM.

[Swede]

Alewyn, on 14 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

I knew this is precisely what you would say. That is why I made the facetious remark.
Have you asked yourself why he quotes from over 500 science articles to prove his point and need not quote from the OLB?




IT just so happens that Bruce Masse is wrong about this date. He is guessing. The date is 2200 BC.
Dr. Abbot confirmed to me that the Fenambosy Chevrons in Madagascar have not been dated as yet and that they may well date to 2200 BC. All proxy data points to 2200 BC.

Do you fully grasp the following from your post? If so, then you seem to agree with me.





Yep, and nowhere more than here at UM.

Btw. You have said many times that the OLB derived at the date of 2200 BC from Biblical chronology. I challenge you to get this date from the Bible (or rather, from Biblical chronology). If you manage to do so, you will be the first person in history to manage this.

  
Bold #1 - It is not personally believed that you have qualified data to support this bold proclamation. In addition, as has been previously presented, Masse utilized a methodology not unlike your own in regards to his utilization of oral histories. While this methodology is subject to scrutiny and not one that would be of my own personal preference, Masse's data base and expertise are notably more extensive than your own.

In contacting Abbott, did she bring to your attention some of the relatively recent research conducted by the Holocene Impact Working Group (HIWG)?

  Fig. 2. Time series of probable tsunami events affecting the New South Wales coast of eastern Australia - Note Dates.

Fig. 3. Time series of probable tsunami events affecting the West Australian coast of Australia - This does show evidence of a tsunami event circa 2200 BC. However, in regards to such:

The event around 2870 BC corresponds to a global catastrophe caused by a
comet impact in 2807 BC documented by [21] and linked to the Burckle Impact crater shown in Fig.
1. Finally, an event centred on 2150 BC may also have a cosmic origin although the evidence is less
conclusive. Its timing corresponds with the fall of the Akkadian empire in the Middle East at around
2200 BC, which has been linked to an impact [21]. (Emphasis added).

  
Fig. 4. Summary of tsunami events and corresponding impacts

Also, as per Figures 2 and 3, note the increase in activity post ~ 500 AD.

The studies of the HIWG are still in their early stages. However, to date, they do not support your speculations in regards to axial tilt, nor is there, to my knowledge, any reference to such made in any of their reports. Did you pursue this aspect directly with Abbott? If not, why?

http://elib.sfu-kras.../1636/1/03_.pdf

As to volcanic activity:

Based upon the following documentation, the 150 yr. period from 2200 BC  > 2050 shows six major eruptions, with the 2200 BC event being on the Kamchatka Peninsula.

As comparatives, the 140 yr period from 1450 BC > 1310 BC indicates eight major eruptions.

The 150 yr period from 340 AD > 490 AD indicates 14 major eruptions.

http://www.volcano.s...geeruptions.cfm

One can go on.

As previously stated, none of the climatological, geological, biological, archaeological, volcanic, or impact-related data would appear to reflect an abnormal shift in axial rotation at any time even remotely relative to your speculation. Nor do the numerous authors of these reports and data bases make such a suggestion.




.

[The Puzzler]

Swede, on 15 March 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

In contacting Abbott, did she bring to your attention some of the relatively recent research conducted by the Holocene Impact Working Group (HIWG)?

  Fig. 2. Time series of probable tsunami events affecting the New South Wales coast of eastern Australia - Note Dates.

Fig. 3. Time series of probable tsunami events affecting the West Australian coast of Australia - This does show evidence of a tsunami event circa 2200 BC. However, in regards to such:

The event around 2870 BC corresponds to a global catastrophe caused by a
comet impact in 2807 BC documented by [21] and linked to the Burckle Impact crater shown in Fig.
1. Finally, an event centred on 2150 BC may also have a cosmic origin although the evidence is less
conclusive. Its timing corresponds with the fall of the Akkadian empire in the Middle East at around
2200 BC, which has been linked to an impact [21]. (Emphasis added).

  
.

No way in the world would a tsunami affecting Western Australia have any bearing on the New South Wales coast imo, so whatever reference that is meant to pertain too, would be irrelevant. The Western Australian studies do indicate a date of 2200BC.

[Swede]

The Puzzler, on 15 March 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

No way in the world would a tsunami affecting Western Australia have any bearing on the New South Wales coast imo, so whatever reference that is meant to pertain too, would be irrelevant. The Western Australian studies do indicate a date of 2200BC.

Firstly, note the cautionary statement in association with this date. Secondly, as has been previously mentioned, tsunami's, particularly in the Pacific basin, are not at all uncommon. Note the following data.

http://historyofgeol...s-in-japan.html

Thirdly, particularly given the frequency of tsunami's in this region, such occurrences do not support speculations in regards to an abnormal shift in the planets axial tilt.

.

[The Puzzler]

Swede, on 15 March 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

Firstly, note the cautionary statement in association with this date. Secondly, as has been previously mentioned, tsunami's, particularly in the Pacific basin, are not at all uncommon. Note the following data.

http://historyofgeol...s-in-japan.html

Thirdly, particularly given the frequency of tsunami's in this region, such occurrences do not support speculations in regards to an abnormal shift in the planets axial tilt.

.

I agree a substantial axial tilt does not have much support.

WHat does it really mean by 'the sun rose higher' I wonder - one of the phrases used in the OLB that Alewyn thinks might support the axial tilt idea.

The Nordic Bronze Age was characterized by a warm climate that began with a climate change around 2700 BC (comparable to that of present-day central Germany and northern France). The warm climate permitted a relatively dense population and good farming, for example grapes were grown in Scandinavia at this time. However a small change in climate between 850 BC and 760 BC and a more radical one around 650 BC brought in a deteriorating, wetter and colder climate (sometimes believed to have given rise to the legend of the Fimbulwinter).
http://en.wikipedia....rdic_Bronze_Age

The climate was warmer from c. 2700BC and even though this next date of 850BC doesn't actually correspond to the OLB date of the colder climate setting in, it does show that some kind of weather change made it colder though - that grapes were once grown there and good farming was available, which may correspond to the notion of 'the sun rose higher'...

Edited by The Puzzler, 15 March 2012 - 01:33 AM.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 14 March 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

Vistula Veneti as well (how could I forget them??!) - that seems to give a direct link for the amber then.


Etymologically related words include Latin venus, -eris 'love, passion, grace'; Sanskrit vanas- 'lust, zest', vani- 'wish, desire'; Old Irish fine (< Proto-Celtic *venjā) 'kinship, kinfolk, alliance, tribe, family'; Old Norse vinr, Old Saxon, Old High German wini, Old Frisian, Old English wine 'Friend'.


Latin Venetis as blue-green seems to just be a colour word in reference to the area of Venice itself - Venetian Blue is a blue-green colour. Venetis is more than likely a word that corresponds to that.

venetian blue

venetian blue - Definition of venetian blue , meaning of venetian blue

n A strong blue to greenish blue
http://www.definition-of.net/veneti

Venice:The name is derived from the ancient Veneti people who inhabited the region by the 10th century B.C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice

So, it's not like the Romans named the area Venice because it was blue-green sea - that word for green/blue imo comes later.

Yeah, I think it's like with the word "turquoise" which is a word everybody uses for a color, but actually is nothing but the French word for "Turkish".

So the Latin "Venetus" may be a similar word named after a tribe, but became the name of a color.

=

And then we have a connection between freya = "(to make) love" and "free" and the words etymologicaly related to the word that became "veniti": love, lust, friend. Ok, maybe all this is another shot in the dark, but that DNA research on the Veneti is still going on, so who knows?

[Abramelin]

I linked to it before but here is again that thread on another board where they discuss the Veneti:


"Taranis":

You may call me a sceptic, but I think there's really no connection between these. You just take superficially similar-sounding names out of context and assume a connection:

Veneti (Armorican tribe)
Veneti (Adriatic tribe/ethnic group)
Vandali (East Germanic tribe)
Venedi (Germanic exonym for Baltic? tribes)
Wends (German exonym for West Slavic tribes)
Vyatichi (Slavic tribe)

The last name is not even superficially similar. I'm not blaming either of your for this, particular because people suggested this before, but I think the similarity is really superficial.

Especially if you think about etymologies:

In regard for Armorican Veneti, you can draw a probable link with the Celtic root *wen- meaning "freeman", "compatriot", found for example in the British tribal name "Venicones" or the Old Irish term "Féni" ("Irishmen", "compatriots").

The term "Vandali" may be related with the English term "to wander". It should be pointed out that the difference between "wand-" and "wend-" is a big one, especially because both words occur in the Germanic context, and because the term "Venedi"/"Wends" is clearly applied as an exonym (on Baltic peoples in Antiquity, on West Slavs in the Medieval Ages).

I mean, it's really tempting to assume a connection when you see similar sounding names, there's no point in denying that, but, how can you prove there's a connection?
http://www.eupedia.c...ps-R1b-U152-S28)

==

"razor":

"Vyatichi" is actually the East Slavic denazalized rendition of something like VENT-ICHI. There are many examples of such. Off the top of my head I can remember Porphyrogenitos' "Sventostlabos" (the historical /later history/ "Svyatoslav" et sim. Acc. to the old Kyivan chronicle, these VYATICHI/VENTICHI were migrants "from the Lyakhs" (=Poland by most interpreters). Baltic Venedi? Who knows? Belorusan archaeologist Nosevych might be sympathetic to such a view, but it's a tricky thing indeed. There is a river Venta in Latvia. Is there also one in Poland?

==

"zanipolo":

you forgot Venetae which if you read the lithuanian history going backwards from the middle ages, reads that they comprised of the
livs = livonians
ests = estonians
kars = curonians
lats = latvians
sambians = prussians
samogitians = prussians
and others
all these are named as Venetae from only 600AD

http://www.eupedia.c...ps-R1b-U152-S28)

[Otharus]

Otharus, on 14 October 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

Goffe Th. Jensma wrote a thesis about the OLB and is generally accepted to be the 'official authority' on the subject.
He is now professor of Frisian language and literature at the University of Groningen.
http://www.rug.nl/staff/g.t.jensma

At a public discussion on the occasion of his promotion, none of the speakers agreed with his conclusion that François Haverschmidt must have been the genius behind OLB. (see below)

Source: Leeuwarder Courant, friday 10 december 2004

Translation of relevant fragment:

"Although the speakers without exception praised Jensma's work, he had not been able to convince any of them of his truth that François Haverschmidt is the main author of the OLB."

Original fragment in Dutch:

"Hoewel de sprekers zonder uitzondering vol lof waren over het werk van Jensma, had hij niemand kunnen overtuigen van zijn waarheid dat François Haverschmidt de belangrijkste auteur van het Oera Linda-boek is."

The panel members that unanimously disagreed with Jensma's conclusion, in the debate held at 6 december 2004 (Leeuwarden), were:

- dr. Eric Cossee, professor Dutch church history at Groningen University
- dr. Marita Mathijsen, professor Dutch linguistics and literature (specialised in 19th century) at Amsterdam University
- dr. Henk D. Meijering, emeritus professor Oldfrisian and Oldsaxon at the Free University (Amsterdam)

Source: "Jûn oer de dissertaasje fan Goffe Jensma" ('evening about Jensma's dissertation') in "Fryslân" 2004 #3, p.12.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 15 March 2012 - 06:48 AM, said:

Yeah, I think it's like with the word "turquoise" which is a word everybody uses for a color, but actually is nothing but the French word for "Turkish".

So the Latin "Venetus" may be a similar word named after a tribe, but became the name of a color.

=

And then we have a connection between freya = "(to make) love" and "free" and the words etymologicaly related to the word that became "veniti": love, lust, friend. Ok, maybe all this is another shot in the dark, but that DNA research on the Veneti is still going on, so who knows?

I was reading about the 'riviera of Turkey' - they call it the Turquoise Coast.

I think alba as white might also hold an origin like that too - a colour that was once a tribe.

Yes, the Frya connection to free, and love, etc - that is certainly worth keeping up with. Priams name means this as well imo, priyama, I think I mentioned before, he was named this after being freed from ransom, his name imo HAS to be connected to this word.

The Veneti imo may be named because they were simply friends through trade, maybe even a wine trade.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ven

I could then see this becoming a root for vanity, vanir etc because of the meaning of venus-beautiful.