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Dr. Melba Ketchum on the radio this morning.


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#61    Jeff Albertson

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

View PostSakari, on 12 December 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Just make sure you do not open your mind so much that your brains fall out. :tu:

Exactly well said also I do beleive we can't shot are self off to new ideas science will not move forward with true beleivers and closed minded skeptics.We ned to follow and apply the scientific method with academic freedom . Like I said in early post if the paper is published we still have to make sure the science is sound. I just am waitning to judge on the peer revied paper science before I make up my mind. I am starting to have my doubts if the paper is real this is all in early post.

We know almost exactly how many stars exist in our milkway but we have no idea of how many species living on our plant.

#62    Stardrive

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 11:27 PM

View PostSakari, on 12 December 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Just make sure you do not open your mind so much that your brains fall out. :tu:
Or like a steel trap that's rusted shut.  :)

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#63    EllJay

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 08:54 AM

View PostSakari, on 12 December 2012 - 08:59 PM, said:

Just make sure you do not open your mind so much that your brains fall out. :tu:

The mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless it's open. :tu:

"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone seems to have one" - Dirty Harry

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#64    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:22 PM

View PostEllJay, on 13 December 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

The mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless it's open. :tu:

A parachute with holes is of no use to a jumper.

cormac

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#65    EllJay

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 01:49 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 December 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

A parachute with holes is of no use to a jumper.

cormac

What holes?

"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone seems to have one" - Dirty Harry

"All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand... "

"I have a black belt in Feng Shui, the subtle martial art. I go home to you and move a lamp and a chair... twelve years later you lay there on the floor with broken kneecaps and destitute."

#66    Insanity

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

Parachutes do have holes in the center, or along one side, it is what stabilizes them from oscillating about or turning violently.

"We see things only as we are constructed to see them, and can gain no idea of their absolute nature. With five feeble senses we pretend to comprehend the boundlessly complex cosmos, yet other beings with wider, stronger, or different range of senses might not only see very differently the things we see, but might see and study whole worlds of matter, energy, and life which lie close at hand yet can never be detected with the senses we have." - H.P. Lovecraft, "From Beyond" Published 1934

#67    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:01 PM

View PostEllJay, on 13 December 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

What holes?

Figuratively speaking of course, the ones caused by believing everything one reads/hears. The parachute analogy works both ways.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#68    EllJay

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:13 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

Figuratively speaking of course, the ones caused by believing everything one reads/hears. The parachute analogy works both ways.

cormac

The only way its working (open), or not working for that matter (closed). There ain't no holes..

"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone seems to have one" - Dirty Harry

"All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand... "

"I have a black belt in Feng Shui, the subtle martial art. I go home to you and move a lamp and a chair... twelve years later you lay there on the floor with broken kneecaps and destitute."

#69    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:34 PM

View PostEllJay, on 13 December 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

The only way its working (open), or not working for that matter (closed). There ain't no holes..

The initial reason for using the parachute analogy (open mindedness) IMO, is just an attempt to claim all opinions/perspectives are equally valid. At least that's quite often how I've seen it used. They're not.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#70    EllJay

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 December 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

The initial reason for using the parachute analogy (open mindedness) IMO, is just an attempt to claim all opinions/perspectives are equally valid. At least that's quite often how I've seen it used. They're not.

cormac

And using the analogy about a open mind risking the brains falling out is not just dumb but is also not possible.
Having an open mind is not automatically believing everything you see or hear, but being open to the possibilities that there is a lot of things out there that we don not fully understand yet, and be humble about that.

"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone seems to have one" - Dirty Harry

"All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand... "

"I have a black belt in Feng Shui, the subtle martial art. I go home to you and move a lamp and a chair... twelve years later you lay there on the floor with broken kneecaps and destitute."

#71    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:51 PM

View PostEllJay, on 13 December 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

And using the analogy about a open mind risking the brains falling out is not just dumb but is also not possible.
Having an open mind is not automatically believing everything you see or hear, but being open to the possibilities that there is a lot of things out there that we don not fully understand yet, and be humble about that.

True but have you actually paid attention to many of the people who've used the "open mindedness" excuse for validating, somehow, their level of ignorance. That's mind-numbing in itself, without the attempt of using one platitude to counter another.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#72    EllJay

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 02:59 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

True but have you actually paid attention to many of the people who've used the "open mindedness" excuse for validating, somehow, their level of ignorance. That's mind-numbing in itself, without the attempt of using one platitude to counter another.

cormac

I usually just "skate by" the obvious loons. Too time and energy consuming to interact wit them. The same goes for totally shut off cynical skeptics. It just ain't worth it. Look at interesting cases and converse with reasonable people, that's the way.

"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone seems to have one" - Dirty Harry

"All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand... "

"I have a black belt in Feng Shui, the subtle martial art. I go home to you and move a lamp and a chair... twelve years later you lay there on the floor with broken kneecaps and destitute."

#73    cormac mac airt

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:06 PM

View PostEllJay, on 13 December 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

I usually just "skate by" the obvious loons. Too time and energy consuming to interact wit them. The same goes for totally shut off cynical skeptics. It just ain't worth it. Look at interesting cases and converse with reasonable people, that's the way.

At times I have to wonder what "reasonable" is anymore. Especially when discussing people such as Melba Ketchum, who apparently can't be bothered with presenting even the most basic of verifiable facts. Nor apparently follow proper scientific protocol instead of "leaking" information.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#74    EllJay

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:22 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 13 December 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

At times I have to wonder what "reasonable" is anymore. Especially when discussing people such as Melba Ketchum, who apparently can't be bothered with presenting even the most basic of verifiable facts. Nor apparently follow proper scientific protocol instead of "leaking" information.

cormac

Well just have to wait for the paper to be published. It will be scrutinized, and hopefully fairly.
There are many scientists who hint of their discoveries before their study is published, just to bring some attention to it, it is just when the subject is so controversial like this one is, that the attention gets so widespread. She seems confident in her work, we'll just have to wait to see what her critics thinks of it when it's out.

"Opinions are like a**holes, everyone seems to have one" - Dirty Harry

"All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand... "

"I have a black belt in Feng Shui, the subtle martial art. I go home to you and move a lamp and a chair... twelve years later you lay there on the floor with broken kneecaps and destitute."

#75    keninsc

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

A lot of times papers due to come out are talked about so it can get immediate peer review, otherwise it might sit at the bottom of the proverbial pile of other new papers.

Will it be given a fair review? I have no clue, however I'd say that if the paper gets published then the publisher must have done some checking themselves. After all, it's their reputation as well. I can say that the scientific community as a whole has been less than accepting of any research done where Bigfoot is concerned and even if a scientific type had an interest they kept it to themselves. Hey, the scientific community is just as biased, bigoted and asinine as any other group in the world. Some how people think these guys are all on a higher plane and above all that when they simply aren't.

Edited by keninsc, 13 December 2012 - 03:41 PM.





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