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Can't Wish Away Facts About Immigration

illegal immigration

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#1    Kowalski

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 05:44 PM

Quote

You Can't Wish Away the Facts About Immigration Amnesty


The Heritage Foundation this week released a study estimating that the Senate immigration bill will cost taxpayers $6 trillion over the next 50 years, the expected life cycle of the persons legalized by the path to citizenship.
The study has touched off a tremendous controversy - and what's most notable about the onslaught is how brazenly it ignores the study's contents.


The New York Times today, for example, has a big story impeaching the credibility of one of the study's co-authors, Jason Richwine.

“Whether you agree or disagree with the Heritage study, what their co-author believes is downright insulting and shameful,” said Ali Noorani, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, a group that has mobilized support for the bill. “Heritage has really become an outlier. The rest of the country is having a 21st-century conversation about immigration reform, and Heritage is caught in 1800. I really think their entire credibility is in question.”


Sorry, no. If you agree with the Heritage study - and so far I have not heard any good reason to doubt it - the results are so important and explosive that the coauthor's other views dwindle into a mere footnote to history. It's not some personal quirk of Jason Richwine's that has caused him to doubt that the legalized immigrants will rapidly raise their skill levels or education standards. The most authoritative study of Mexican immigration over time has found exactly the same thing. Edward Teles and Velma Ortiz write from the left in their book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Generations-Exclusion-Mexican-Americans-Assimilation/dp/0871548496/ref=as_at?tag=thedailybeast-autotag-20&linkCode=as2&" style="">Generations of Exclusion. They indict American society, discriminatory educational attitudes, and other "exclusionary" forces - but they have the goods that Mexican-American inter-generational progress has slowed to a stall. I would follow Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies in putting the blame on the new American labor market and the reduction in blue-collar wages in a post-industrial economy.

But whatever the reason, the facts are the facts - and the math is the math.
In the period from World War II until about 1980, immigrants arrived with higher skill levels than the native-born and within a decade of arrival earned higher wages. This tendency still holds in Canada, where policy emphasizes skills. It has ceased to be true in the United States since 1980. Some shrug and say that the immigrants who arrived before 1913 also had low skills. But the state of data does not permit useful comparison of the skill levels of pre-1913 immigrants to the native-born (who were not super well-educated either, let's remember) - and in any case, an agrarian-industrial economy offers very different opportunities to the unskilled than our credential-driven post-industrial service-financial-healthcare economy.

Unless you posit that the newly legalized immigrants will dramatically outperform the existing immigrant population, you will reach a result very like that of the Heritage Foundation: that the taxes paid by the newly legalized will not begin to equal the costs of their Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and other benefits.

Many experts have studied the economic effects of present US immigration policy over the years, and the findings are generally consistent: present policy helps the economy a little, not very much, and most of those benefits flow to the immigrants themselves. From the point of view of most native-born Americans, the economic benefits of immigration are negligible; and for a substantial number, harmful.




Taken from http://www.thedailyb...atest Articles)


Quote

And it's been a notorious fact for years that immigration's modest economic benefits are offset by very large fiscal costs.
State governments have complained for years about those costs. Even illegal immigrants use hospitals, prisons, roads and schools. Once legalized, immigrants will qualify for dozens of other programs, including the big entitlements.



#2    Taun

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:22 PM

I agree 100% with that article, but it overlooks one very overwhelmingly important fact... Legalizing the illegal "immigrants" will ensure that the political party that does so will get their votes for the next two generations (at least)... Nothing else really matters...


#3    Kowalski

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 06:38 PM

View PostTaun, on 09 May 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

I agree 100% with that article, but it overlooks one very overwhelmingly important fact... Legalizing the illegal "immigrants" will ensure that the political party that does so will get their votes for the next two generations (at least)... Nothing else really matters...

Your right. But guess who pays for them to stay here, and for their kids. The tax payers. Not the politicians in Washington...


#4    Taun

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostKowalski, on 09 May 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Your right. But guess who pays for them to stay here, and for their kids. The tax payers. Not the politicians in Washington...

Exactly... But the politico's don't care so long as they get the votes....


#5    xFelix

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:20 PM

I'm tired about hearing on the subject of illegal immigration.

You want facts, let us present facts.

1) The founding fathers of the United States were illegal immigrants, and not peaceful ones. They committed crimes against humanity various times.
2) There is no such thing as an illegal human being, the term illegal is an adjective that has been ignorantly used as a noun to describe people.
3) The illegal immigrants have been supplying our economy with a steady flow of manual laborers for decades now, and they pay taxes on every purchase like everyone else, the only thing that they are not being taxed on is their paycheck, and most illegal immigrants have been more than willing to pay their share of taxes, but due to foolish laws the government hasn't wanted their money. Instead they take yours and tell you look what they're doing to your pockets.
4) Guess who does all the hard work so that you and your family members can have that lavish job? Oh you're mad you pay an extra $1000 a year or some crazy number... Ok sure, let's ditch the immigrants... now we have to pull citizens that once had high paying lavish jobs back down to manual labor... Now what? From a salary to a minimum wage... Must be a horrible trade for you, having to pay a few extra bucks so Jose can push your wages considerably higher.
------------

Now on to my opinion:
I find it is necessary to enter the country under legal circumstances, but our government has made that process one of the most ridiculous processes in the modern world today. For example, when you send off forms to the Immigration Services you must send them with a fee in U.S. dollars. I am not sure what the fee is today, but I know that years ago it was as high as 300 USD. Most foreigners have a weight difference of 20 to 1 for the dollar so that would be... 6,000 of their currency. That in essence makes it so that only those who are financially well off can enter... but the ones who are financially well off have no interest in entering the country other than visiting. The working class stand no chance, and they're the ones who want entry... That's just one step in a process with over 30 steps!!! The forms are all drown out to be complex and non-intuitive and are intent for a foreigner to fill? No, The intention is to have the foreigner hire a lawyer to help them file the forms... Uh oh... Time to pay another fortune... This is before any clue as to whether or not acceptance will be granted... in lots of cases even at this phase it is common to have a letter return saying "DENIED"... Again that is thousands into debt... getting denied.

Just as anything else, there is initial cost behind doing anything in this country. Flipping out because fixing our bs "we can illegally immigrate but you cant" laws will cost money is just as insane as having that frame of mind. It's time we finally put the hate crimes to rest and stop calling people illegal.

Everyone should be entitled to the American Dream, after all this country was founded by WE THE PEOPLE, not we the white people, the black people, not even the american people... just we the people.

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#6    Ashotep

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 07:24 PM

I think its time to stop giving illegals citizenship and send them back, it has to stop somewhere.  If they want to become citizens apply for it like everyone else does that comes here by legal means.  If we give all the ones here now citizenship in ten years there will be that many more coming here illegally wanting it.


#7    Kowalski

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:43 PM

View PostxFelix, on 09 May 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

Guess who does all the hard work so that you and your family members can have that lavish job? Oh you're mad you pay an extra $1000 a year or some crazy number... Ok sure, let's ditch the immigrants... now we have to pull citizens that once had high paying lavish jobs back down to manual labor... Now what? From a salary to a minimum wage... Must be a horrible trade for you, having to pay a few extra bucks so Jose can push your wages considerably higher.


My family members do not have "cushy lavish" jobs.
My dad is a mechanic for Hays County, my husband is a welder, my father in law is a plumber (he owns his own business), my mother in law cleans houses, etc...

The economy is in shreds and there are practically no jobs out there. This is going to stretch our already fragile economy. It makes no sense to flood our country with 11 million illegals when most American citizens can't even get a job at McDonald's! And if they don't have jobs, they will probably go on welfare. Now who is going to pay for all these people's "free" medical care, food stamps, etc.

Also:

Quote


WTHR, the NBC affiliate in Indianapolis, recently reported about how millions of illegal aliens are getting billions of dollars in U.S. tax refunds without having paid a dime in income taxes. The story instantly went viral because it's true. You won't believe what illegals are getting away with, and our government is enabling them.
Here's how it works.
Illegal immigrants cannot qualify for legitimate Social Security numbers, which would entitle them to work legally in the U.S. and file income tax returns, but the Internal Revenue Service allows them to apply for nine-digit individual taxpayer identification numbers, or ITINs, which also are used to file federal income tax returns.
In addition, a provision in the tax code permits illegals to claim "additional child tax credits," which grant families $1,000 per "dependent" child. Roughly three-quarters of tax returns filed by illegals include these ACTCs. With the ITIN, illegals are able to get tax credits and refunds for nephews, nieces and other family members who never have touched U.S. soil.
For example, an illegal immigrant who makes $13,000 a year not only pays no taxes but also can receive a refund of $5,000 by simply filling in five ACTCs. One illegal used a fake address and said four illegal aliens lived there with 20 relatives as dependents, for a grand total tax refund of $29,000!
According to the Center for Immigration Studies, in the 2010 tax year alone, more than 3 million returns were filed with ITINs. About 2.3 million of them paid no federal income taxes and also collected a cumulative $4 billion from the Treasury in tax refunds for claiming ACTCs.
FactCheck.org confirmed: "The (Treasury Department's inspector general's) report stated that more than 2.3 million persons who did not have Social Security numbers valid for working in the U.S. got an average of roughly $1,800 each in 2010 in child tax credit refunds. That included 9,000 illegal immigrants who each got a total of $10,000 or more by retroactively claiming credits for tax years prior to 2010."
A tax consultant snitched to WTHR News: "We've seen 10 (or) 12 dependents, most times nieces and nephews, on these tax returns. The more you put on there the more you get back. ... Here's a return right here: 'We've got a $10,300 refund (for) nine nieces and nephews.'"

Taken from http://townhall.com/...nds_to_illegals


View PostxFelix, on 09 May 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

Everyone should be entitled to the American Dream, after all this country was founded by WE THE PEOPLE, not we the white people, the black people, not even the american people... just we the people.

Oh my god. The old "racist" card gets played now.

I'm not racist. I hate all people equally... :su

Look, I know many Hispanics who came here LEGALLY and worked their butts off. They pretty much feel the same way I do about this. It's a slap in the face for the people who worked hard to get here the LEGAL way.



Quote


illegal alien

noun
1.a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.
2.a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa, especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson. Compare resident alien.




Quote


Illegal Immigration: Drugs, Gangs and Crime

Posted on November 1, 2007 by Jameson Taylor in Immigration

“Not all illegal aliens are crossing into the United States to find work. Law enforcement officials indicate that there are individuals coming across the border who are forced to leave their home countries because of criminal activities. These dangerous criminals are fleeing the law in other countries and seeking refuge in the United States.”

Majority Staff Report of the House Committee on Homeland Security


Illegal Immigrants: Drugs, Gangs and Crime
Paramilitary groups trading fire with U.S. agents. Kidnappings and murders of U.S. citizens. Members of al-Qaida, Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations infiltrating the border on a routine basis. We are not talking about Iraq – but Texas. One of the clearest indicators the United States has lost control of its southwest border is the ease with which thousands of tons of drugs and millions of illegal aliens are crossing the U.S. border on an annual basis. This open borders policy has opened the door to more than just cheap labor. The presence of millions of undocumented persons in our country has provided a perfect cover for various forms of criminal activity, ranging from drug trafficking to prostitution to identity theft.

Posted Image


Drugs
Federal investigators believe that as much as 2.2 million kilograms of cocaine and 11.6 kilograms of marijuana were smuggled into the United States via the Mexican border in 2005.1 With the decline of the Medellin and Cali cartels of Columbia, two Mexican drug cartels – the Sinaloa cartel and the Gulf cartel – are battling over the billion-dollar drug trade between Mexico and the United States. These cartels also have ties to U.S. gangs that serve as distribution networks in the interior United States. A 2006 study by the House Committee on Homeland Security warns that the Mexican cartels have essentially wrested control of the border from both the U.S. and Mexican governments:


The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration reports that the Mexican drug syndicates operating today along our Nation’s Southwest border are far more sophisticated and dangerous than any of the other organized criminal groups in America’s law enforcement history. Indeed, these powerful drug cartels, and the human smuggling networks and gangs they leverage, have immense control over the routes into the United States and continue to pose formidable challenges to our efforts to secure the Southwest border. … The cartels operate along the border with military grade weapons, technology and intelligence and their own respective paramilitary enforcers. … This new breed of cartel is not only more violent, powerful and well financed, it is also deeply engaged in intelligence collection on both sides of the border.2

Here in North Carolina, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) reports “a significant increase in drug-trafficking activity.” Explains the DEA: “The majority of the increased drug-trafficking activity is due to an unprecedented influx of foreign nationals into the state” – in particular “Spanish-speaking, specifically Mexican, nationals.” A 2003 report by the National Drug Intelligence Center corroborates the DEA’s findings:


Mexican criminal groups in southwestern states and Mexican drug trafficking organizations (DTOs) in Mexico routinely use Mexican illegal immigrants in North Carolina as couriers to transport cocaine, marijuana, methamphetamine and, to a lesser extent, heroin into and through the state. These criminal groups exploit a growing Mexican population in North Carolina to facilitate their illicit activities. Law enforcement authorities in North Carolina, principally in the western and southern areas of the state, indicate that Mexican criminal groups are also increasing their involvement in retail drug distribution.3

Needless to say, the majority of illegal immigrants are not directly involved in the drug trade. Nevertheless, the DEA has determined that “their presence allows Mexican traffickers to effectively conceal their activities within immigrant communities.”4 Johnston County Sheriff Steve Bizzell ® estimates that 80 percent to 85 percent of the drug trade in his county is conducted by Hispanics.5 In 2002, the Wake County Sheriff’s Office similarly reported that although Hispanics comprised only 5.4 percent of the population, they accounted for 46 percent of drug-trafficking arrests.6

Gangs
As indicated above, transnational gangs, such as Surenos-13 and Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13), are responsible for much of the low-level drug trade in North Carolina. Over the past several years, North Carolina has experienced a disturbing surge in gang activity. Between 1999 and 2004, Wake County saw a 5,743.3 percent increase in gang membership. During the same period, the city of Durham saw a 333.3 percent increase.7 A 2005 report by the Governor’s Crime Commission estimated that 22.2 percent of all gang members in North Carolina are Hispanic (with ethnicity unknown for another 19.4 percent).8 By contrast, Hispanics accounted for only 7 percent of total state population in 2004.
Nationally, Hispanics are thought to comprise 49 percent of total gang membership. A majority of these gang members are illegal immigrants. Notes Duplin County Sheriff Blake Wallace (D), “There is an increasing gang activity problem, particularly with MS-13 and studies have shown that the majority of those gang members are illegal aliens.”9 Among these studies is a report published by the Governor’s Crime Commission which posits that 66 percent of Hispanic/Latino gang members are illegal aliens.10 In the case of MS-13, one of the most violent and powerful gangs in North Carolina, federal authorities estimate that “approximately 90 percent of U.S. MS-13 members are foreign-born illegal aliens and depend upon the Texas-Mexico border smuggling corridor to support their criminal operations.”11 As Forsyth County District Attorney Tom Keith ® puts it, “You cannot say ‘drugs’ without saying ‘gangs’ without saying ‘illegal aliens.’”12
In addition to the drug trade, the Mexican cartels are becoming increasingly involved in human trafficking (i.e., prostitution) and human smuggling. According to Dr. Deborah Schurman-Kauflin of the Violent Crimes Institute, “Mexico is the number one source for young female sex slaves in North America.” Each year thousands of women and children – with 12-year-olds in top demand – are smuggled across the border and sent to brothels across the United States. Such brothels, notes Schurman-Kauflin, “can take the form of homes, apartments, spas, massage parlors, and hotels … even middle class neighborhoods can be at risk.”13

Human Smuggling
As for human smuggling, the U.S. House Committee on Homeland Security reports that the typical illegal alien pays between $1,200 and $2,500 to be taken across the border. Not infrequently, illegals pay back these fees by selling drugs once they get to America.14 The drug cartels are also smuggling non-Mexican (OTMs) aliens into the United States, often charging between $45,000 and $60,000 per person to do so.15 Since 2001, border apprehensions of “special interest aliens” are up 41 percent. Indeed, FBI Director Robert Mueller has alerted Congress that “there are individuals from countries with known al Qa’ida connections who are changing their Islamic surnames to Hispanic-sounding names and obtaining false Hispanic identities, learning to speak Spanish and pretending to be Hispanic immigrants.”16

Identify Theft
Once illegals get across the border, many have jobs, as well as fraudulent documents, waiting for them. In 2001, for instance, Tyson Foods Inc. was indicted for conspiring to smuggle illegal aliens into the United States to work at the company’s chicken processing plants.17 Federal agents caught one Tyson plant manager in Monroe requesting as many as 500 illegal workers, complete with photo IDs and Social Security cards. Immigration authorities have also discovered that criminal groups, such as the Castorena Family Organization (CFO), control cells of counterfeiters in major American cities. These organizations provide illegal aliens with high-quality counterfeit documents, such as Social Security cards, birth certificates, marriage certificates, driver’s licenses, proof of vehicle insurance cards, even counterfeit utility bills.18
Many illegal aliens are also resorting to identify theft. During a recent raid at Smithfield Foods in the Bladen County town of Tar Heel, investigators found that 86 percent of workers arrested for immigration violations had also stolen identities from American citizens. Warns U.S. Attorney General George Holding, “It’s an epidemic problem.”19

Drunk Driving and Other Crimes
In addition to drug trafficking and identity theft, illegal aliens also have higher rates of drunk driving and may have higher rates of sexual deviancy. According to the radical Hispanic advocacy group, El Pueblo, “Alcohol-related motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for Hispanics in North Carolina; more than 20 percent compared to only 2.2 percent for Whites and 2.4 for African Americans.”20 A 2006 report by the UNC Highway Safety Research Center likewise concluded that Hispanic drivers involved in crashes are two-and-a-half times more likely to be intoxicated than are whites; and three times more likely than blacks.21 Finally, a study by Dr. Schurman-Kauflin concluded that “there are approximately 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States.”22 Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) also runs a special program, “Operation Predator,” which targets foreign nationals who commit sex crimes against children. To date, more than 10,000 individuals have been arrested through this ICE initiative, resulting in more than 5,500 deportations.23

Recent Legislation
Between 2000 and 2006, the number of aliens (legal status unknown) entering North Carolina’s prison system increased by 210 percent (and this figure doesn’t include the 2,676 inmates processed for deportation under Mecklenburg County’s 287(g) program). During the same period, the number of aliens on parole increased by 370 percent. Similarly, Sheriff Jim Pendergraph (D) observed that between 2003 and 2007, the number of illegal aliens in his Mecklenburg County prison system went from 2 percent to 20 percent, a tenfold increase.
In an attempt to deal with the rising number of illegal aliens engaged in criminal activities, the 2007 General Assembly authorized a one-time appropriation of $750,000 to help the North Carolina Sheriffs’ Association provide “technical assistance and training associated with immigration enforcement” to local law enforcement. Essentially, this money is to be used to help county sheriffs implement the federal 287(g) program, which trains local law enforcement officers to enforce federal immigration laws. It is unclear, though, whether these limited funds will be enough to tempt sheriffs to take on a program that has, not only long-term benefits, but also long-term costs.
Similarly, the General Assembly agreed at the final hour to pass a law (S.L. 2007-494) that requires jail personnel to verify the immigration status of persons convicted of a felony or a DWI. The state is to annually report the results of this verification process – not to the Department of Homeland Security – but to the Governor’s Crime Commission. According to the legislation, the mere fact that the state makes an inquiry through U.S. Customs regarding a prisoner’s legal status provides sufficient notice to federal authorities. While similar measures in Georgia and Colorado require jail personnel to formally alert federal immigration authorities, North Carolina has adopted a much more passive approach to reporting illegal immigrant felons. But given the magnitude of the problem and the limited resources of ICE, it is unlikely that this new law will do much to reduce criminal activity by illegal aliens. Moreover, even once they are deported, many repeat offenders return. In Mecklenburg County, for instance, at least one-third – but probably more – of illegals return after being arrested and deported.24 This is not to say that the public safety of our state does not require the aggressive deportation of criminal illegal aliens. But deportation alone is not going to be enough. As a country we need to take steps to prevent such criminals from entering the United States in the first place. Comprehensive immigration reform must begin by securing the border.

Taken from  http://www.nccivitas.org/2007/illegal-immigration-drugs-gangs-and-crime/



Quote

Border States Deal With More Illegal Immigrant Crime Than Most, Data Suggest


Some jurisdictions do keep track, though, and with the data that is available, Vaughan said it's apparent that there is a connection between illegal immigrants and certain types of crimes, like drug trafficking and identify theft. And, she said, illegal immigrants have a tendency toward recidivism.
The GAO report found that of the undocumented residents surveyed, almost all of them had more than one arrest. They averaged about eight arrests per person. Nearly half of the offenses were for drug crimes or immigration violations.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz2SpZFCw8o





Edited by Kowalski, 09 May 2013 - 08:49 PM.


#8    Princess Serenity

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:27 AM

Dad knows or knew a guy who came here from a foreign country. Dad explained to him about the issue and the guy was like: "That's not fair." And dad replied that it wasn't fair.

You know I feel betrayed by the government because my Great or Great Great Grandparents came here from a village near Warsaw, Poland. They had to change their last name and their language (I guess) and worked their butts off.


#9    Ashotep

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 12:48 AM

They've been given amnesty and citizenship too many times now already to solve the problem and it didn't.  People have to stop coming here illegally.  We need to guard our borders better.  What's going to happen when someone that hasn't been through proper channels bring some highly contagious deadly disease with them.


#10    ninjadude

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:00 AM

Quote

Schumer Destroys Top GOP Talking Point Against Immigration Reform

By Igor Volsky on May 9, 2013 at 12:38 pm
Posted Image
(Credit: ABC News)
On Thursday, as the Senate Judiciary Committee took up a comprehensive immigration reform bill that allows the nation’s 11 million undocumented immigrants to earn a path to citizenship, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) shot down Republican claims that the measure will allow 30 million new immigrants to enter the country and take away jobs from American workers.
In a tense and lengthy exchange with Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL), Schumer argued that most of the individuals and families who would attain legal status under the bill are already working in the U.S. economy illegally or are currently in the backlogs of the immigration system. “I await your amendment on what we do with the people who are not here legally now, okay?” Schumer said. “If you believe that they should all be self-deported or whatever else, I’d like to hear,” he added, before accusing Republicans of throwing out estimates of new immigration without comparing those figures to the cost of doing nothing:


SCHUMER: There is some simple math here. You’re adding 11 million, they’re already here. By the way, they’re competing for jobs right now. I ride my bicycle around Brooklyn early in the morning. I see people gathered on street corners, okay? I see a guy in a truck who comes over and says, ‘I’ll pay you $10 dollars if you work all day.’ They’re competing with Americans who wouldn’t accept $10 a day to work in those jobs…. We do allow family re-unificaiton it is the humane and right thing to do. But many of those people would be allowed to be unified under present law… But third, I would say to my colleague, if the economy goes very well here and the economy goes very badly in Mexico and we do nothing the number of illegal immigrants will increase and could be far beyond what this bill is. So again, my main point here is this, the system is broken… To simply point who we allow to work here and who we allow to come here does not take into account who would be coming here and be allowed to work here if we do nothing.

Watch the exchange:
Immigration policy experts tell ThinkProgress that as many as 10.6 million unauthorized immigrants could earn legal status under the Senate’s immigration bill, most of whom are already living in the United States. But it is unlikely that this legalized population will bring in many other family members since millions of unauthorized immigrants already live in mixed-family households (and nearly two-thirds have lived in the U.S. for at least a decade). Younger immigrants are also unlikely to have spouses or children abroad who would qualify for reunification under the bill.
Once the bill is fully operational and the backlogs are cleared, the government will issue approximately 1.5 million green cards per year, some estimates show. Currently, approximately 1.05 million green cards are made available each year. But the bill is unlikely to bring in many of new immigrants from outside the country since it would shift what has been an unauthorized flow of 688,000 people per year into legal channels.
http://thinkprogress...gration-reform/

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#11    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 11:47 AM

View PostKowalski, on 09 May 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

You Can't Wish Away the Facts About Immigration Amnesty


The Heritage Foundation this week released a study...

Is this the same Heritage Foundation who hired Jason Richwine?

Didn't Jason Richwine write that report that is being discussed in the link from the OP?

Quote

As it turns out, Richwine's post-graduate research sounds a bit like eugenics -- he wrote that he believes there's evidence to support "a genetic component to group differences in IQ," and that whites are more intelligent than people of color.

But that's not all Richwine believes. Adam Serwer reports today:


In 2008, he told an audience at the American Enterprise Institute that "major" ethnic or racial differences in intelligence between the Irish, Italian, and Jewish immigrants who flocked to the United States at the turn of the 20th century and the immigrants coming to the US today justified severely restricting immigration.

Richwine's remarks, which he made as a resident fellow at AEI, did not receive much public notice at the time, but they go beyond the arguments presented in his 2009 dissertation.

In Richwine's vision, there are "real differences between groups," with Jews on top, followed by "East Asians, then you have non-Jewish whites, Hispanics, and then blacks." These "differences" in intelligence, Richwine argued, should help shape U.S. immigration policy.

And in case this isn't quite nauseating enough, Chris Moody reports that Richwine also contributed published pieces to a white nationalist website.

This is the guy who helped write the Heritage Foundation's "study" on comprehensive immigration reform -- the document anti-reform Republicans are supposed to rely on to defeat the bipartisan bill.

Heritage sure knows how to pick 'em


In case someone is wondering "what is white nationalism?" here is an explanation:

Quote

White nationalism is a political ideology that advocates a racial definition of national identity for white people. It has been argued that white separatism and white supremacism may be considered subgroups within white nationalism.

<snip>

White nationalists argue that every nationality feels a natural affection for its own kind. They advocate racial self-preservation and claim that culture is a product of race.

According to white nationalist Samuel T. Francis, it is "a movement that rejects equality as an ideal and insists on an enduring core of human nature transmitted by heredity."

Jared Taylor, a white nationalist, claims that similar racial views were held by many mainstream American leaders before the 1950s.

White Nationalism


Do we really want to return to the era before the 1950s?

Quote

White nationalist groups espouse white supremacist or white separatist ideologies, often focusing on the alleged inferiority of non-whites.

Groups listed in a variety of other categories - Ku Klux Klan, neo-Confederate, neo-Nazi, racist skinhead, and Christian Identity - could also be fairly described as "white nationalist."

White Nationalist


Quote

Heritage Foundation analyst Jason Richwine, the co-author of a study claiming the immigration reform bill pending in the Senate would cost taxpayers $6.3 trillion, wrote two articles in 2010 for a website founded by Richard Spencer, a self-described "nationalist" who writes frequently about race and against "the abstract notion of human equality."

Richwine's two stories for Spencer's website, AlternativeRight.com, dealt with crime rates among Hispanics in the United States. AlternativeRight.com describes itself as "dedicated to heretical perspectives on society and culture—popular, high, and otherwise—particularly those informed by radical, traditionalist, and nationalist outlooks."

Heritage immigration study co-author penned articles for ‘nationalist’ website


So basically Richwine does not believe humans are equal and that we should base our immigration policy on that notion.


Spoiler


Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 10 May 2013 - 12:27 PM.


#12    Kowalski

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:04 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 10 May 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Is this the same Heritage Foundation who hired Jason Richwine?

Didn't Jason Richwine write that report that is being discussed in the link from the OP?



Heritage sure knows how to pick 'em


In case someone is wondering "what is white nationalism?" here is an explanation:



White Nationalism


Do we really want to return to the era before the 1950s?



White Nationalist




Heritage immigration study co-author penned articles for ‘nationalist’ website


So basically Richwine does not believe humans are equal and that we should base our immigration policy on that notion.


Spoiler


That's right, attack the messenger if you don't like the message...Reminds me of Cleopatra in Shakespeare who killed the messengers if she didn't like the news they brought her.

If you had bothered to read the first article I posted:

Quote



The New York Times today, for example, has a big story impeaching the credibility of one of the study's co-authors, Jason Richwine.

“Whether you agree or disagree with the Heritage study, what their co-author believes is downright insulting and shameful,” said Ali Noorani, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, a group that has mobilized support for the bill. “Heritage has really become an outlier. The rest of the country is having a 21st-century conversation about immigration reform, and Heritage is caught in 1800. I really think their entire credibility is in question.”



Sorry, no. If you agree with the Heritage study - and so far I have not heard any good reason to doubt it - the results are so important and explosive that the coauthor's other views dwindle into a mere footnote to history. It's not some personal quirk of Jason Richwine's that has caused him to doubt that the legalized immigrants will rapidly raise their skill levels or education standards. The most authoritative study of Mexican immigration over time has found exactly the same thing. Edward Teles and Velma Ortiz write from the left in their book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Generations-Exclusion-Mexican-Americans-Assimilation/dp/0871548496/ref=as_at?tag=thedailybeast-autotag-20&linkCode=as2&" style="">Generations of Exclusion. They indict American society, discriminatory educational attitudes, and other "exclusionary" forces - but they have the goods that Mexican-American inter-generational progress has slowed to a stall. I would follow Mark Krikorian of the Center for Immigration Studies in putting the blame on the new American labor market and the reduction in blue-collar wages in a post-industrial economy.

But whatever the reason, the facts are the facts - and the math is the math.

In the period from World War II until about 1980, immigrants arrived with higher skill levels than the native-born and within a decade of arrival earned higher wages. This tendency still holds in Canada, where policy emphasizes skills. It has ceased to be true in the United States since 1980. Some shrug and say that the immigrants who arrived before 1913 also had low skills. But the state of data does not permit useful comparison of the skill levels of pre-1913 immigrants to the native-born (who were not super well-educated either, let's remember) - and in any case, an agrarian-industrial economy offers very different opportunities to the unskilled than our credential-driven post-industrial service-financial-healthcare economy.
Unless you posit that the newly legalized immigrants will dramatically outperform the existing immigrant population, you will reach a result very like that of the Heritage Foundation: that the taxes paid by the newly legalized will not begin to equal the costs of their Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and other benefits.


Edited by Kowalski, 10 May 2013 - 01:06 PM.


#13    Jessica Christ

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:42 PM

There is no need to attack the messenger.

He himself has claimed ethnic groups are not the same, will have different IQs, and that is white supremacy.

Hitler thought the same.

To simply discuss that is not an attack. But if one feels it is, maybe it is because they want to defend the messenger.

Instead of saying those ideas are horrible, they secretly might hold those ideas themselves.\

One has to wonder...?

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 10 May 2013 - 01:43 PM.


#14    Myles

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

You cannot bring in 11 million unemployed poor people and expect it not to have a negative impact on the country.  
This is a horrible idea.


#15    Kowalski

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Posted 10 May 2013 - 02:39 PM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 10 May 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

There is no need to attack the messenger.

He himself has claimed ethnic groups are not the same, will have different IQs, and that is white supremacy.

Hitler thought the same.

To simply discuss that is not an attack. But if one feels it is, maybe it is because they want to defend the messenger.

Instead of saying those ideas are horrible, they secretly might hold those ideas themselves.\

One has to wonder...?

I am not racist, nor do I hold any "white supremacist" views either.
This type of comment coming from you is rich. Aren't you the same person who thinks all people in rural areas are uneducated, gun worshiping rednecks? Bigotry comes in all forms buddy...


View PostMyles, on 10 May 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

You cannot bring in 11 million unemployed poor people and expect it not to have a negative impact on the country.  
This is a horrible idea.

Exactly. They have NO education or job skills, nor do they speak English. And with people who have COLLEGE degrees unable to find meaningful employment, how are these immigrants expected to find work?? The fact is most will have to go on social welfare programs. And that is going to cost A LOT of money.
Our economy is in the toilet, and our government deficit is in the trillions. It is a very bad idea to give amnesty to over 11 million illegal immigrants when we can hardly take care of the citizens we have now.






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