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Some thoughts from Chris Hedges.


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#1    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 02:13 PM



Br Cornelius

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#2    and then

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 03:33 PM

If Mr Hedges is an example of what would replace the "current" elite then no thanks.  No doubt the man is sincere but imo he's less about improving situations than he is destroying the current order - such as it is.  America and the West in general seems to have become more interested in self immolation than in survival - it's a truly mystifying thing to observe.  We've become so splintered that we would rather hate our neighbors than survive as a nation.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#3    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 04:44 PM

View Postand then, on 27 July 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

If Mr Hedges is an example of what would replace the "current" elite then no thanks.  No doubt the man is sincere but imo he's less about improving situations than he is destroying the current order - such as it is.  America and the West in general seems to have become more interested in self immolation than in survival - it's a truly mystifying thing to observe.  We've become so splintered that we would rather hate our neighbors than survive as a nation.
If survival means killing ourselves and our neighbours - maybe its about time we reconsidered the merits of our quest for survival.
He has lived at the bleeding edge of the Western Empire and seen the piles of bodies - as a reporter he feels it his duty to report the facts to those who are ignorant of them.

If you take pride in the horrific - aren't you by extension horrific to.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#4    and then

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 07:26 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 27 July 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

If survival means killing ourselves and our neighbours - maybe its about time we reconsidered the merits of our quest for survival.
He has lived at the bleeding edge of the Western Empire and seen the piles of bodies - as a reporter he feels it his duty to report the facts to those who are ignorant of them.

If you take pride in the horrific - aren't you by extension horrific to.

Br Cornelius
?  Where exactly in my statement did I say or even allude to being prideful about the current situation?  I simply said that this man's approach to the problems we face is not superior to the current order.  I am familiar with Mr Hedges - son of a preacher - and to listen to him drone on one can conclude that he missed his family calling.  Or maybe he just prefers to pray and preach at a different altar... either way, your statement is just a personal jab and is pointless.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#5    Br Cornelius

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 07:29 PM

It seems to me he has a lot to say about a transition to a better order of things and to say that acceptance of the current situation as been superior suggests you like the way things are.

Br Cornelius

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#6    Babe Ruth

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:50 PM

View Postand then, on 27 July 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

If Mr Hedges is an example of what would replace the "current" elite then no thanks.  No doubt the man is sincere but imo he's less about improving situations than he is destroying the current order - such as it is.  America and the West in general seems to have become more interested in self immolation than in survival - it's a truly mystifying thing to observe.  We've become so splintered that we would rather hate our neighbors than survive as a nation.

If you had lived during the age of slavery, the 'current order' of the day, would you have favored destroying that current order?

If one says nothing about illegal acts and looks the other way, does one condone those illegal acts?


#7    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:24 PM

And Then is a social conservative, it is natural for him to consider the current order preferable to change.

Br Cornelius

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Robert Anton Wilson

#8    Rafterman

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 01:40 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 27 July 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:



Br Cornelius

He sounds like a guy who is right up your alley Bro.

"You can't have freedom of religion without having freedom from the religious beliefs of other people."

#9    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:02 PM

Quote

And Then is a social conservative, it is natural for him to consider the current order preferable to change.

Maybe because "change" never seems to end well in this day in age. Change usually means something like... "lets take more money from the hard working peoples and toss it at the lower classes to buy...erm, earn their vote. The whole give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish analogy." This being just one of numerous problems plaguing our society.

Now is the current system perfect? Hell no. It's far from perfect... but compared to the alternatives (Communism, total socialism, fascism, simple dictatorship...etc...) it's pretty damned good in my honest opinion. That being said, there are things that need to change. We (as in the west) need to cut down on the "nanny state" and truly help people become hard working members of society (or we could show them the door :devil:  :passifier: :whistle: ). We need to put a leash on the big corporations and/or find a way to minimize their influence on our governments (I have no problem with people being uber-wealthy... if you earned it, you deserve it. What I have a problem with is them "buying" representatives in government). We need to take a more environmentally friendly/sustainable approach to our life styles (which I try my best to do/promote)... We need a one, set tax rate for everyone making above the basic requirements to survive - with no exemptions and sneaky ways around it. One flat tax you HAVE to pay. Period. And there are numerous other issues...

But now I am rambling.

Is our current system perfect? Hell no. But it's better then the alternatives :sk

Cheers. :)

Edited by Bavarian Raven, 28 July 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#10    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 28 July 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Maybe because "change" never seems to end well in this day in age. Change usually means something like... "lets take more money from the hard working peoples and toss it at the lower classes to buy...erm, earn their vote. The whole give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish analogy." This being just one of numerous problems plaguing our society.

Now is the current system perfect? Hell no. It's far from perfect... but compared to the alternatives (Communism, total socialism, fascism, simple dictatorship...etc...) it's pretty damned good in my honest opinion. That being said, there are things that need to change. We (as in the west) need to cut down on the "nanny state" and truly help people become hard working members of society (or we could show them the door :devil:  :passifier: :whistle: ). We need to put a leash on the big corporations and/or find a way to minimize their influence on our governments (I have no problem with people being uber-wealthy... if you earned it, you deserve it. What I have a problem with is them "buying" representatives in government). We need to take a more environmentally friendly/sustainable approach to our life styles (which I try my best to do/promote)... We need a one, set tax rate for everyone making above the basic requirements to survive - with no exemptions and sneaky ways around it. One flat tax you HAVE to pay. Period. And there are numerous other issues...

But now I am rambling.

Is our current system perfect? Hell no. But it's better then the alternatives :sk

Cheers. :)
I have to disagree with you on its better than the alternatives.
Its seems vast and inevitable, the old "End of History" so beloved of the Cato Institute, but there is nothing inevitable about the redundancy of human capitol as mechanization takes more and more jobs. there is nothing inevitable about the concept of infinite growth in a finite world. There is nothing inevitable about expecting the environment to be more degraded tomorrow than today - simply because its more profitable to pollute.

There is nothing inevitable about a system which concentrates 99% of all resources in the hands of a few thousand corporations and individuals and leaves billions impoverished.

If we haven't found the solutions to these problems - it doesn't means the solutions don't exist.

Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson

#11    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 03:12 PM

Quote

If we haven't found the solutions to these problems - it doesn't means the solutions don't exist.


What I meant was the current alternatives. :) There may be a better system out there, but as of yet, we haven't found it. Cheers.


#12    Br Cornelius

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 03:29 PM

View PostBavarian Raven, on 28 July 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:



What I meant was the current alternatives. :) There may be a better system out there, but as of yet, we haven't found it. Cheers.
I really don't even accept that since there are so many subtly different forms of the current alternatives that some have shown themselves to be distinctly better than others, and i certainly would put America at the top of the heap.

We had better think about those alternative soon rather than accepting the status quo, the stake for failure to find them are getting higher by the year. I await for the current regimes to declare martial law as more and more people become disenfranchised by the ongoing economic collapse. We are in a worse economic state now than in 2007 and the elite will not go down easy. All of this is just a symptom of the unsustainable nature of our "best of possible worlds" culture.


Br Cornelius

I believe nothing, but I have my suspicions.

Robert Anton Wilson




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