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Let There Be Light, and There Was Light


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#1    Ben Masada

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:09 PM

LET THERE BE LIGHT, AND THERE WAS LIGHT

It has been an a "tohu vavohu" among many questioners, especially Christians, even many Jews, to come up with an explanation for that kind of light in Genesis 1:3 wen the sun, which gives light by day was created only on the 4th day of creation. The embarrassment is that at both, Atheists laugh. And not because they know any better in terms of an adequate answer, but for two other reasons: First, because they look for answer only in Science; and of course it is not there but in Theology. And in Theology, they laugh at us for they think that we are all speaking about an anthropomorphic god, which, as I don't blame them: It indeed never existed.

But what light is indeed the Torah writer referring to when he reports of God as declaring, "Let there be light?"
Since before the creation of the universe it was already in the designs of God to provide for salvation of Mankind a People whom salvation would come from, in the words of Jesus himself in John 4:22, that salvation comes from the Jews.

When for good, the Assyrians removed Israel from existence by replacing the Northern population of the Galilee with Gentiles, and after the Jews or Southern pupulation was taken for an temporary exile of 70 years in Babylon, and the time had arrived for their return to the Land of Israel, Prophet Isaiah said that the people who walked in darkness, he meant the Gentiles in Galilee, had seen a great light as the Jewish People was returning to the Land of Israel. (Isa. 9:2)

Then, later, he confirms that light of Genesis 1:3 when he explained that Israel had been assigned as light to the nations. (Isa. 42:6) But the light was to remain divided from the darkness, so that both should exist in the same world; although, in the language of the Essenes, there would always be a conflict between the children of Light and the children of darkness. Between Jews and Gentiles. Just as light cannot coexist together with darkness. Wheneverlight is come, dakness is gone.

Jesus was aware of this Light as he delivered his famous Sermon of the Mount to a crowd of Jews, when he said to them: "You are the Light of the world." (Mat. 5:14) The reason why he said "you are" and not "you have" is that what one has, it can be taken away, but what one is, he is no matter what. Individually, we have the light the world needs to know God. But as a People, we are that light of Genesis 1:3, which the world needs for salvation.

Ben


#2    Yamato

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:11 PM

*sigh*

Of course it's from the Jews.  That "anti-Semitic" New Testament you always complain about turns out to be the source that makes that absolutely clear.    Christ was a Jew.  The apostles were Jews.  The people they were the most interested in converting were Jews.  The whole power base of Christianity took off from the Jews.  Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ is effectively from the Jews because that's where the mass conversion to Christianity originated from.   You take a fact that isn't controversial, ambiguous, or misunderstood and distort it to what?   If Jews were the salvation independent of Christ, they had thousands of years of head start to begin "salvating" already and Jesus wouldn't have even been necessary.   You wouldn't need to cherry pick from the anti-Semitic catalog, because it would be in evidence itself.  The New Testament is cogent and fits together quite well despite its independent Gospels, provided you don't extract your sound bytes so you can reinterpret it based on one tiny isolated piece at a time.  And if Jesus isn't Christ, I don't see how the "salvation" manifests itself.   It's thousands more years of waiting for the Messiah because of historical Jewish skeptics who couldn't believe that Christ fulfilled the Jewish scriptures.   If nationalists from a 64-year old Israel who stuck a religious symbol on their flag are suddenly my salvation, they're not doing anything for me but putting a bullseye on my head.  They need to worry about saving themselves.  I'll be just fine so long as we coexist and have nothing to do with each other by way of exerting force control on other people.

And we can agree to disagree, but apparently you can incorrigibly preach your religious beliefs on here ad nauseum as if they're facts with no disclaimers in post after post after post.  When have you ever acknowledged that someone else's opinion is as good as your own?   This is all you ever do in what seems to be 100% of your participation on this website.   How is that not a TOS violation?   I can understand a few anti-Christian diatribes here and there.  If this were my message board, I'd let you post to your heart's content anyway, because I don't believe in censoring anything.   My freedom of speech is quite simple: if someone wants to expose themselves, let em fly!   But holy matzahballs, if I started preaching Islamic or Christian belief as fact on here the way you get away with, I wouldn't bet against anyone that it would even last a day before being cleaned off the forum.

While I'm here, here's my opinion about the anti-Christian nationalism you peddle as the one true religion:   Nazi Germany tried to destroy the Jews in the Holocaust which was what I would call The First Holocaust or the Physical Holocaust because it tried to exterminate the Jews via their physical bodies.  The 2nd Holocaust is The Spiritual Holocaust and that Holocaust is Israel, because it destroys Jews not by destroying their physical bodies but by destroying their religion.   :td:

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#3    Mr Walker

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:44 AM

God is both physical light, and light as in enlightenment. ALso a beacon to move towards and a light which lights up the darkness revealing dangers, showing a way and providing comfort/ eliminating fears. God manifests as light in physical form, and light represents the energies, both physical and spiritual, of god.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#4    Ben Masada

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:19 PM

View PostYamato, on 25 September 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

*sigh*

Of course it's from the Jews.  That "anti-Semitic" New Testament you always complain about turns out to be the source that makes that absolutely clear. Christ was a Jew.  The apostles were Jews.  The people they were the most interested in converting were Jews.  The whole power base of Christianity took off from the Jews.  Salvation through the Lord Jesus Christ is effectively from the Jews because that's where the mass conversion to Christianity originated from.   You take a fact that isn't controversial, ambiguous, or misunderstood and distort it to what?   If Jews were the salvation independent of Christ, they had thousands of years of head start to begin "salvating" already and Jesus wouldn't have even been necessary.   You wouldn't need to cherry pick from the anti-Semitic catalog, because it would be in evidence itself.  The New Testament is cogent and fits together quite well despite its independent Gospels, provided you don't extract your sound bytes so you can reinterpret it based on one tiny isolated piece at a time.  And if Jesus isn't Christ, I don't see how the "salvation" manifests itself.   It's thousands more years of waiting for the Messiah because of historical Jewish skeptics who couldn't believe that Christ fulfilled the Jewish scriptures.   If nationalists from a 64-year old Israel who stuck a religious symbol on their flag are suddenly my salvation, they're not doing anything for me but putting a bullseye on my head.  They need to worry about saving themselves.  I'll be just fine so long as we coexist and have nothing to do with each other by way of exerting force control on other people.

And we can agree to disagree, but apparently you can incorrigibly preach your religious beliefs on here ad nauseum as if they're facts with no disclaimers in post after post after post.  When have you ever acknowledged that someone else's opinion is as good as your own?   This is all you ever do in what seems to be 100% of your participation on this website.   How is that not a TOS violation?   I can understand a few anti-Christian diatribes here and there.  If this were my message board, I'd let you post to your heart's content anyway, because I don't believe in censoring anything.   My freedom of speech is quite simple: if someone wants to expose themselves, let em fly!   But holy matzahballs, if I started preaching Islamic or Christian belief as fact on here the way you get away with, I wouldn't bet against anyone that it would even last a day before being cleaned off the forum.

While I'm here, here's my opinion about the anti-Christian nationalism you peddle as the one true religion:   Nazi Germany tried to destroy the Jews in the Holocaust which was what I would call The First Holocaust or the Physical Holocaust because it tried to exterminate the Jews via their physical bodies.  The 2nd Holocaust is The Spiritual Holocaust and that Holocaust is Israel, because it destroys Jews not by destroying their physical bodies but by destroying their religion.   :td:

You have succeeded with this post of yours above, to convay the message that there is nothing you wish more than a moderator to read your post and banish me from this forum by cutting short my freedom of speech. I do acknowledge that other posters have as good an opinion as mine, but this does not mean that I should adopt them. You seem to be frustrated to have failed in this particular. Besides, I am here only to partake in interfaith dialogue and not, as you imply, trying to forward my views with the purpose of proselytizing. This is forbidden in Judaism. Besides, we have nothing to offer as a reward in the afterlife. Somehow, your preconceived notions  have set you in an antagonistic position against any Jewish interpretation of the Scriptures. My message to you, therefore, is that you don't have to frustrate yourself by reading my posts. Just ignore them. Unless you are jealous that other eyes will be reading them and, perhaps, even enjoying them. Take it easier Yamato, such a hostility is not good for your health.

Ben


#5    Ben Masada

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:26 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 26 September 2012 - 12:44 AM, said:

God is both physical light, and light as in enlightenment. ALso a beacon to move towards and a light which lights up the darkness revealing dangers, showing a way and providing comfort/ eliminating fears. God manifests as light in physical form, and light represents the energies, both physical and spiritual, of god.

Walter, there is absolutely nothing physical about God. Jesus himself declared that God is Spirit; and only those who worship God in spirit and in truth are they whom the Father seeks. Read John 4:23,24. Some Christians do understand what I am saying, but they don't like when a Jew quotes Jesus in defense of a Jewish truth.

Ben

Edited by Ben Masada, 29 September 2012 - 06:27 PM.


#6    M0TH

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 07:01 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 29 September 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Walter, there is absolutely nothing physical about God. Jesus himself declared that God is Spirit; and only those who worship God in spirit and in truth are they whom the Father seeks. Read John 4:23,24. Some Christians do understand what I am saying, but they don't like when a Jew quotes Jesus in defense of a Jewish truth.

Ben

indeed ... God is Spirit.  When I am not playing in the sponge beds with the guys that think amino acids are the great life givers I am contemplating scripture... I like what you wrote about light and I wondered what your view on matthew 6:22. I have often wondered what sort of light was meant there... literal or knowledge... :unsure2:


#7    Ben Masada

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 08:55 PM

View PostM0TH, on 29 September 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

indeed ... God is Spirit.  When I am not playing in the sponge beds with the guys that think amino acids are the great life givers I am contemplating scripture... I like what you wrote about light and I wondered what your view on matthew 6:22. I have often wondered what sort of light was meant there... literal or knowledge... :unsure2:

In Mat. 6:22 we have a reference to the kind of knowledge that enters one's mind through the eyes. Then one is molded according to what one learns; good or evil.

Ben


#8    Yamato

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:11 PM

View PostBen Masada, on 29 September 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

You have succeeded with this post of yours above, to convay the message that there is nothing you wish more than a moderator to read your post and banish me from this forum by cutting short my freedom of speech. I do acknowledge that other posters have as good an opinion as mine, but this does not mean that I should adopt them. You seem to be frustrated to have failed in this particular. Besides, I am here only to partake in interfaith dialogue and not, as you imply, trying to forward my views with the purpose of proselytizing. This is forbidden in Judaism. Besides, we have nothing to offer as a reward in the afterlife. Somehow, your preconceived notions  have set you in an antagonistic position against any Jewish interpretation of the Scriptures. My message to you, therefore, is that you don't have to frustrate yourself by reading my posts. Just ignore them. Unless you are jealous that other eyes will be reading them and, perhaps, even enjoying them. Take it easier Yamato, such a hostility is not good for your health.

Ben
If that were true, you could accept Christian belief without adopting it yourself.  And I haven't seen where that's the case in your posting history here.   I do see a lot of denial of even the most central and uncontested of Christian beliefs and obtuse rounds of questioning of the most central Christian concepts ("What salvation?" etc).

Killing and stealing and 50-eyes-for-an-eye justice is also forbidden in Judaism, but you never let that stop you.

You're not going to get banned, dude.   Libeling Christianity is another day in the office around here, and you're just another mouthpiece of the hit squad with a patch on your arm.  You belong here more than I do.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#9    Mr Walker

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

View PostBen Masada, on 29 September 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Walter, there is absolutely nothing physical about God. Jesus himself declared that God is Spirit; and only those who worship God in spirit and in truth are they whom the Father seeks. Read John 4:23,24. Some Christians do understand what I am saying, but they don't like when a Jew quotes Jesus in defense of a Jewish truth.

Ben
I am sorry but you are wrong. Or at least we may be speaing of different things. God is as real to me as he was to moses and abraham and the others of the old testament. He appears as light, as a human being, and in any form he choses  becaus ehe is IN allthings..

Of course this (what humans can experience of god) is not the totality of god, or even the essence of god.

God is matter, energy, spirit, consciousness, and can appear to humans in any of those forms, or all of them at once. The old testament makes this clear. Now some individual writers in the bible  may differ. Each is influenced and constrained by their own experience of/with god,  but i dont think moses or abraham would agree with you that there was nothing physical about god.

MAny hebrew /jewish people in the old testament walked with god, not just metaphorically, but physically, and god interacted with them and their environment physically; eg parting the red sea, providing manna,  appearing as a burning bush etc. I agree wigth christ that "worship" of god requires a spiritual relationship with him A recognition of gods spirit within us and around us, but that does not mean that god does not have, or cannot take, physical form. It is. however. on a spiritual level (within us ) that most peole connect to and relate to the peresence of god. Apparently a comparative few connect to and relate to the physical aspects of god.

  I dont know why that is so. To me it is incomprehensible that all humans are not connected to god on a physical level as well as a spiritual one. God is with me, as he was with Daniel when he entered the lions den, or shadrak michak and abednigo in the fiery furnace.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#10    Roy Perry

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 02:24 AM

God first

thanks Ben Masada

God used himself to creative us in the world we live in

we were creative in Image of God Himself

We were perfect until we rebelled God Himself

than we went downhill from that moment of Time

because before that moment we did no wrong

we creative a void in what is truth

you must look at yourself as a fool to get wiser

listen to Mr Walker he show you the way

with love and a holy kiss Roy


#11    the eternal me

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:09 AM

hmmm......

so... the "discussion" is about "god" .... "creator" ..... "alah" ..... being the light....
and the manner in which the lessons are taught....

the differing of opinions, and interpretations.....

there are some fundamental things being overlooked in the conversation....

1- Hebrew is a dead language.... what it says and means in the book has not changed ....
what it meant a 1000 years ago... is still what it means today.....
to interpret that into a growing dynamic language like English is a rough one...
way to many different meanings to words depending on cultural background (where you grew up) to really get a clear picture of what is being said..
if you really wanted to read where the old testament came from....
learn Hebrew my friend....

2- the dynamics of interactions between people in a debate are convulding the topic.....
way to often... people argue saying the same thing... with different words......
they get caught up in ego....
believe that the way they have interpreted the meaning as being correct....
and take a defiant stance on it...

when in all reality .....

with a dynamic language....
the same thing can be said in a multitude of different ways...

ex: i need to start the process of my cigarette burning to partake in the smoke that issues forth...

i can say...

got a light?
match?
got spark?
torch me....

the list can go on for a long time....
but you get the idea....

me thinks a part of the reason that it was said that the Jews were the light...
is in the manner in which the old knowledge is held and taught...

the house of the Hebrew faith is still one house....

whereas the house of the Christian faith is divided a 1000 fold.....

and i believe that the cultural background of the individual, and interpretation of the meaning of translated words according to that difference.....
is a source for conflict....

i can see how the response to what Ben posted has been one of defence and defiance...

are we not all teachers?

are we not all students as well?

to partake in a debate over saying the same thing is folly..... at best...
and is rooted in no more then ego....

i think i get the jist that pretty much every one here can agree that a concept of God, Creator or Allah... (Jehovah.... the list goes on)
can be summed up in a simple phrase....

creator is the summation of all things.....

and therefore is manifest in everything....

spirit and physical....

a simple concept that is so large we cant wrap our minds around it........

but that gets back to the teachings and interpretations of your cultural background.....

at least reading through the first post and rebuttal....
this is what i see....

from there we expand on it...


#12    Roy Perry

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:31 AM

God first

thanks the eternal me

so you think Genesis was wrote in Hebrew first

I say egyptian is the language Mosses was taught

today we have no book as it was wrote

plus the bible is not holy scripture has God gave it

with love and a holy kiss Roy

Edited by Roy Perry, 30 September 2012 - 04:32 AM.


#13    Mr Walker

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 04:47 AM

Eternal me. Just to reply to ths point.

a simple concept that is so large we cant wrap our minds around it........

Why do you think that? The human mind is capable of conceiving and understanding  anything. Many atheists would argue that the only forms of god which exist are those imagined and created in the human mind.

Any real god is understandable to humans BECAUSE it is real and thus definable and measurable/quantifiable, as are all real things. Any imagined god is certainly proof that we  can wrap our minds around it, because at least one human being had to do so, to create/construct it.

Edited by Mr Walker, 30 September 2012 - 04:47 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#14    M.A.D CapeBretoner

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:42 AM

Why not look at light it self and see, the first so they say did not happen for at least some 3 hundred thousand years after that bang before it was just to hot  for light to shine. Or at the light spectrum it is so small at 10 to the 15 power where colored light is at, out side of this its just a blueish green or even in a rainbow but the tricky ? is how is this light that is life in me you every body. When good old Elbert put forth that matter and energy are one it brought us closer to the truth. there are 7 colors in the rainbow and there are 7 energy centers in the body some say more but I will talk of these 7, now we have red which is at the base which gives you a good foundaition to start going up like a latter of lights we have orange and then yellow now most stop here because they are earthly for lack of a better word but after this you have green then sky blue, purple then golden white for the crown and each step rises your energy hotter and more finer.


#15    M0TH

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:11 PM

View Postthe eternal me, on 30 September 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

hmmm......

so... the "discussion" is about "god" .... "creator" ..... "alah" ..... being the light....
and the manner in which the lessons are taught....

the differing of opinions, and interpretations.....

there are some fundamental things being overlooked in the conversation....

1- Hebrew is a dead language.... what it says and means in the book has not changed ....
what it meant a 1000 years ago... is still what it means today.....
to interpret that into a growing dynamic language like English is a rough one...
way to many different meanings to words depending on cultural background (where you grew up) to really get a clear picture of what is being said..
if you really wanted to read where the old testament came from....
learn Hebrew my friend....

2- the dynamics of interactions between people in a debate are convulding the topic.....
way to often... people argue saying the same thing... with different words......
they get caught up in ego....
believe that the way they have interpreted the meaning as being correct....
and take a defiant stance on it...

when in all reality .....

with a dynamic language....
the same thing can be said in a multitude of different ways...

ex: i need to start the process of my cigarette burning to partake in the smoke that issues forth...

i can say...

got a light?
match?
got spark?
torch me....

the list can go on for a long time....
but you get the idea....

me thinks a part of the reason that it was said that the Jews were the light...
is in the manner in which the old knowledge is held and taught...

the house of the Hebrew faith is still one house....

whereas the house of the Christian faith is divided a 1000 fold.....

and i believe that the cultural background of the individual, and interpretation of the meaning of translated words according to that difference.....
is a source for conflict....

i can see how the response to what Ben posted has been one of defence and defiance...

are we not all teachers?

are we not all students as well?

to partake in a debate over saying the same thing is folly..... at best...
and is rooted in no more then ego....

i think i get the jist that pretty much every one here can agree that a concept of God, Creator or Allah... (Jehovah.... the list goes on)
can be summed up in a simple phrase....

creator is the summation of all things.....

and therefore is manifest in everything....

spirit and physical....

a simple concept that is so large we cant wrap our minds around it........


but that gets back to the teachings and interpretations of your cultural background.....

at least reading through the first post and rebuttal....
this is what i see....

from there we expand on it...

fantastic!!!  <see bold>





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