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"1965 Monroe Monster," Monroe, Michigan


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#1    IMGumsho

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:21 AM

I was reading the old Unexplained Forum archive site when I came upon a posting: "Any Michigan Residents Out There?" Naturally it caught my attention and read the information speaking of the "Dog Lady" legend of Plum Creek, Monroe, Michigan. Unfortunately, it was dated February 27, 2007 so I seriously doubt the author would still be available to read my response. It was an interesting read, but having grown up in Monroe, there is little I can add about the legend he or she spoke of other than, I heard of it too!

Within their posting it mentioned briefly the "1965 Monroe Monster," and how it was determined to be a hoax.  I would like to take this moment to share what little I have learned about the so called, 1965 Monroe Monster hoax, and let the readers make their judgment ...  

Fact or Fiction?  

Do you believe in Monsters? Have you ever heard of such a thing in Monroe County?

In the debate over whether or not the 1965 Monroe Monster was real or a hoax, I believe many lose sight of the facts and background of Bigfoot or Sasquatch history. Throughout my search I found no such evidence that anyone of the names listed in the local newspaper had a flair for closet Bigfoot impersonation, and I am not certain the word "Bigfoot" was even a household name then, and yet, a witness or witnesses of such an experience were roundly ridiculed for reporting it.

The controversy that caught authorities and public by surprise took place during the evening of August 13, 1965. It was a hot humid day with a weather front threatening all day. A beautiful blonde 16-year-old girl and her mother were driving the gravel roads surrounded by thickets and agricultural fields dotted with woods in all directions. In that time it was sparsely populated, and with weeds tall and high in the ditched you would hear a chorus of crickets and frogs on either side with your windows down in the summer.  

For most teenagers in small town America, it was enchanting and kids looked forward to promising futures. Technology was advancing, and more and more people were buying their televisions or listening to their pocket sized hand held transistor radios. The whole world of young teenagers were honestly mesmerized by the Beattles, boys, and graduation back then.  

With the young girl  driving, her mother by her side, they round  a curve when a large hairy creature appears from the thickets causing the inexperienced driver to lock up the brakes, swerve and stall. For the next horrifying moments the daughter and mother scream and scream with no help in sight. The bipedal animal reaches in window and grabbing ahold the girl's hair, and in doing so, slams her head into the door post and flees.

It occurred near Mentel and Fix, south Nadeau Road west of Dixie Highway and less than five miles from a more recent 2009 sighting and in between those years similar encounters popped up in Dundee, LaSalle, Blissfield and northward near Exeter Twp.  The once sparsely populated area replete with wild game and crop fields, thick woods, and narrow dirt back roads are now paved. Much of the vast empty fields are dotted with modern development visible in every direction. Few of those named as principles in the height of the action then have long since passed, but their story lives on. In the eyes of thousands who have witnessed this anomaly there also comes a cost.

These poor people did nothing to deserve the onslaught of attention and ridicule by authorities calling them liars, by the news media referring to them as frauds and by uninformed parroting the "party line" that it was all hoax. This occurred in a small community where things like that happen only in Hollywood movies and never so close to the security of this sleepy community.

Sasquatch or Bigfoot

What is known is that about these are creatures or sapient beings is that they are very intelligent, very strong, and hunt like old hunter gathers. They are curious about children and women. They inhabit wooded lands and are omnivores… meaning they eat meat and plants. Although history details one account where these creatures killed a man, you will rarely find any information specifically speaking to violence on humans despite numerous reports. Even political correctness has seaped into this area.

I make no pretense to a special expertise with these beings and know little more about the Monroe incident than what was learned from published news reports. Are they good or evil? I cannot say with personal conviction but I know what heart says and I will reserve my opinion. As the world population increases with each passing year and greater demand is placed on limited sustainable food and water resources how will mankind and these beasts co-exist? Can we co-exist? Will there be competition for limited food and water resources with these creatures?


On the irritating side, some witnesses seek to become recluse and experience great difficulty discussing it or being around people again. Seeing their name being associated with words like crazy or lunatics, frauds and hoaxsters and liars can be devastating especially among young people. Then, some witnesses involuntarily loose their bowels or suffer leaky bladders upon sight of these things. While for others, they may seem forever trapped between sleepless nights and anxiety and nervousness, or otherwise experience difficulty dealing with a reality that only they can say for certain.

Stories are like fingerprints

History points to Bigfoot existence even before our early ancestors so we have to believe they procreate. What are their numbers and will a growing human population in competition for food and resources place them and us on a collision course for survival? Who knows? So let me lay out my argument and discuss why I believe it was someone other than the women who were deceptive and lying and not as the media would lead readers to believe.

In 1965 officials at Enrico Fermi I took the reports as credible and hardened down the hatches adding extra security while law enforcement and media downplayed the whole incident as a hoax closer to the scene ... Once again, I am not a Bigfoot hunter but what I do see are some rather stark problems with the reporting and I do not believe it was hoax. In a rare instance of early folksy news reporting at least one police officer reportedly quoted as saying something to the effect they tried to keep the report secret but just got out of hand, paraphrased by me.

Monroe’s ‘Monster’ Mystifying
Police Get Reports Of Hairy Something
Nine In Auto
From the Blade Correspondent
MONROE, Mich., Aug. 17- Cpl. Clair Dechow, of the Erie post, who admitted that efforts to keep the reports secret have backfired, expressed fear that the biggest danger is that someone will get shot.  Toledo Blade, OH Tuesday, Second News Section, August 17, 1965 page 18


Prior to the so called, "Hoax," more commonly referred to as the Monroe Monster there were more than 50 known reported Michigan sightings dating back to 1634 by a Native American tribe whose ancestors were very well informed of their presence. Hundreds of early Native American tribes across the country have themselves encountered such a beast. Each tribe even had a name for it in their own native tongue, and this is where the mystery widens and so intriguing for me. Even some of America’s greatest folk heroes' of history such as Teddy Roosevelt, Daniel Boone, General Hull, and American officer during the war of 1812, French explorers along the Detroit river, and even a British Colonial officer during years following the Monroe Massacre wrote of their sightings. All of these are similar to a large hairy beast that Monroe authorities referred to as a hoax, centuries before 1965.

In so far as the lie detector goes, readers must understand that in 1965, the lie detector test administered to the Owens and Van Acker women, which they  failed, was technology from around 1914 and had not changed until the early 1970s. Imagine relying on manual subjective 1914 technology to determine innocence or guilt, which is exactly what had occurred. Nevertheless, the injury did not end there, some news media took it a step further by actually calling the women “Liars” and frauds and hoaxsters.

Even today, when people refer to the Monroe Monster incident a “Hoax,” they are unwittingly falling into the lair of misinformation for which the smear was intended, and that me is one of the greatest problems with the whole incident.

Just one and one half years prior to the 1965 Monroe incident across the state near Dowgiac and Dewey Lakes in Michigan, a creature described much the same as the above terrorized their community. It frightened migrant workers from the fields; little girls fainted upon encountering the animal, townspeople reported scores of animals missing, and there were a number farmers who reported seeing this extremely large hairy upright “Hoax” [said tongue in cheek]in their orchards, fields, and crossing their roads. The Sherriff’s Department sent deputies to the scene with a conservation official. In one account a deputy reported seeing very large human footprints and his state counterpart standing right next to him, reported seeing no such foot prints. So, the bigger question is not who was lying but rather why lie at all?

Cass County Residents Still Remember Monster
DOWAGIAC (UPI) — “Conservation Officer William Rowe Sunday said he doesn't believe there was one. He said he went along with the cops but couldn't find any tracks. However, the sheriff's department reported on another occasion they found a 6-by-18-inch footprint.”  THE HOLLAND, MICHIGAN, EVENING SENTINEL, Tuesday, October 6, 1964, page 8


Potawatomi tribe still remembers original name Lake County Discovery Museum
About the year 1600, Native American tribes living in northern Wisconsin and Michigan began hearing rumors of strange creatures to the east. People who had traveled east told of the arrival of creatures who in some ways looked like humans, but dressed oddly, smelled bad, and had thick hair on their cheeks. The Native Americans came to call these beings "Hairy Faces." In 1634, they had their first opportunity to meet one. By Diana Dretske, Daily Herald, Neighbor Section, March 18, 2001, page1

The largest of the cave pictures (I do not have pictures) is the "Big Man," a reddish human shape standing two feet high. The land now belongs to the State of Michigan and is closed to public. Since the bluff contains the only known Indian cave paintings in Michigan, it is vital to protect them. In 1963 and again in 1965, University of Michigan archaeologist, James H. Fitting, studied the caves and shelters of the 140 foot Burnt Bluff. They excavated two caves, Spider Cave, and Cave B-95. Over 100 projectile points were discovered in Spider Cave, all with fractured tips, suggesting they were shot or thrown into the cave. These points were all Middle Woodland in style (300 BC to 800 AD). The theory is that passing canoes used the drawings in the cave for target practice. James H. Fitting has published his findings in a book titled "The Prehistory of the Burnt Bluff Area."
http://fayettemichigan.com/burntbluff.html

And while I could go on, I should conclude this by saying that I am in no way related to the women involved the 1965 Monroe Monster incident, but I feel so strongly about the disservice they endured for nothing other than being a victim and reporting it to authorities.


So as the Monroe Monster sighting remains but a faint memory it should be further noted these few remaining facts:

# 1. The drawing made by these girls in the 1965 Monroe, Michigan sighting are remarkably similar to the 1964 "Momo Monster" of Missouri and the pictographs etched on cave walls by an ancient American tribe in Michigan sometime between (300 BC to 800 AD).

#2. If, the 1965 Monroe Monster was a hoax, how do we explain:

September 2009
Within 5 miles of the 1965 sighting a passing motorist spotted what he thought was a bear or large black furry dog picking through roadside trash. The driver says his headlights caught the animal up ahead, and as the car approached, it raised up on two legs giving him a good look at an animal that was neither a bear nor dog, but more like an ape-man.  


In 2009, there was a unconfirmed report that claims a motorist broken down and had a brief encounter a large bipedal hairy hominid-like animal somewhere along I-75, between LaSalle and the Ohio state line. Is it possible? I do not know but it is just miles south of the September 2009 sighting reportedly in the area of northwest of I-75 and Nadeau Road.

October 2001
In the general vicinity bounded by M-50 and River Raisin several adults encountered an apelike creature 7-8 feet tall in the bed of a pickup rummaging through a cooler. It stood up, and jumped out when startled and howled before fleeing leaving the group in shock.

July 1993
Driver and passenger smelled thick odors, seen 7-8 foot reddish brown Bigfoot on side of road they blow their horn and it stands upright crosses road in front of vehicle near the northwestern  Monroe County area.

October 1983
Boys in woods saw a large Bigfoot animal covered in hair across a pond and shot it with BB gun, it screams stood up on two legs, swinging its arms around looking in all directions in the Dundee area.

September 1980
Hunter encounters large 7 foot reddish brown Bigfoot animal standing upright in southern Monroe County.

#3. In spite of what official counts of Bigfoot sightings say to date, Michigan has over 836 reported sightings in nearly all counties of the state including four taking place this year and the earliest being 1634, before the Michigan Northwest Territory 1837. If as some would believe the 1965 Monroe Monster event to be a hoax, how then do we explain hundreds of sightings throughout Michigan by thousands of people?



~IMGumsho


Edited by IMGumsho, 08 September 2013 - 02:29 AM.


#2    QuiteContrary

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:19 AM

View PostIMGumsho, on 08 September 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

...how then do we explain hundreds of sightings throughout Michigan by thousands of people?
~IMGumsho

Hello and welcome IMGumsho!

I'm not sure that "hundreds of sightings" would equal "thousands of people" (witnesses). But even if it did, how do we explain all the alleged sightings of a bigfoot creature?
My concerns would be:
--How many of the over 800 encounters are actual sightings of something and not just sounds or tracks or a nest or smell or whatever. Data bases record alleged "encounters or findings" not just sightings!

--How many have been verified as being actual reports? Even if not of bigfoot, just verified as real events experienced by real people. Even if 100 out of the 836 alleged Michigan "sightings" were confirmed to be by real people (not fabrications to boost numbers) who actually witnessed something they could not explain at the time. And these individuals were deemed credible and knowledgeable of wildlife in general-- Would this somehow default to a bigfoot creature as the culprit? If so, why? Again, we are still only left with someone's recollection of an event, since so far we have no clear footage or DNA evidence from any sightings.

--There are countless humans who have allegedly experienced ghosts and demons and hauntings and vampires and werewolves and aliens and all forms of entities and monsters.
Does the sheer volume of alleged witnesses and believers automatically make these various cryptids and entities all true? For some, it does. But for others, when we read  the accounts of various alleged encounters they are very weak or have a discrediting background story, or are completely unsubstantiated, or lacking vital information or documentation, or accepted as fact without any investigation, and a dozen other similar troublesome problems. Which all make it very difficult to jump to one conclusion: It is true.

--I also think of the volume of people who watch fake, "for entertainment only", discredited, questionable, etc television shows and still believe what is offered is true.

Without mainstream documented evidence after all these "thousands of witnesses" in just one state: Michigan. I for one, have no problem with discounting the alleged sightings of actual "bigfoot" creatures.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 08 September 2013 - 05:21 AM.


#3    White Unicorn

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:00 AM

Welcome to UM and thanks for the post. I'm old enough to remember Momo stories, I appreciate your view that is usually not covered about some American heroes seeing them and the tribal legends :) I think something was probably out there but most went extinct but maybe some are so intelligent to stay out of sight? I remember certain great apes and many other rare animals were just myths until they were discovered. I never saw one except out west but it probably was a nut in a suit, who knows. So I can't say I ever witnessed one that convinced my own scepticism. I know a few people who saw  a thing like that but didn't go public with their photos so I'm with you, they are not all liars! Unfortunately we won't know what the sightings were until we get DNA or a body. I hope some day an animal is found to prove it without some idiot shooting one because everyone is just so concerned about evidence.


#4    IMGumsho

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 01:47 AM

Hello and thank you for your gracious welcome Quite Contrary. I am going predict right here and right now there is nothing I can say that will sway your thinking, but then again, no harm since that is not purpose of my posting.

I do not know the mother and daughter pair who from whom no fault of their own became centerpiece of the 1965 Monroe Monster controversy so man years ago. From what I was able to learn these people never sought media attention and to some extent like many folks in tiny communities they were shy news media. Nothing I uncovered hinted of prior police contact or anything other than a shy unassuming 16-year-old girl with her whole future in front of her. Instead a lifetime is spent looking in the rearview mirror of memories they could not shake.  

Much as they were in big cities, kids in small town Monroe, were preoccupied with driver’s licenses, cars, music, boys and girls and graduating from high school and not necessarily in that order.

I am not a conspiratorial type therefore I cannot imagine all these Bigfoot or Sasquatch fabrications from the likes of ancient Indians, British Colonial officers, American Colonial General’s, early French explorers and Catholic missionaries either traversing the Detroit River, or navigating the untamed woods of Michigan. Nor will I believe that Teddy Roosevelt or the legendary Daniel Boone and thousands of people across the country and
Canada are lying.

Something was experienced in Missouri, do I know what it was? I wasn’t there, but it terrified town folk there in 1963.  A year later, in 1964, also in the Midwest across the state in Michigan, a large hairy beast scared farmers, students, migrant workers, and motorist enough they demand police investigations. One year later, in 1965 a beast of similar description to that of Missouri and west Michigan is also reported southeastern Michigan with injury. Can I explain it? No …

Animal zoological parks have been around a long time and so have hunters and homesteaders. Most people have seen bears, dogs, monkeys and could easily discern the difference between each without much effort. Efforts to persuade witnesses that seen a bear or dog failed, much to the dismay of media and authorities, most people know what they observed and it was not a bear or dog or a gorilla.

These reported sightings were different. They were not made by liars or fabricators but from every day honest people, who like anyone, were dealing with something so “contrary” to their reality it was difficult to reason.   

To read postings calling this mother and daughter couple “liars” as one news writer did, and others calling them frauds is just unbelievably outrageous in my mind. As a former investigator, and a private investigator, something just did not seem right from start, when I started looking at this.

If we remember all the attention “Bullies in school,” received in recent years imagine that magnified ten times during the mid-1960s. People staying abreast of the news at time understood very well, “you never report what you see or this is what happens to you,” a lesson well learned.

I mean … My God, it was a time of great transition and change throughout the county i.e. Civil Rights movement, John Kennedy assassination, Vietnam War involvement, advancing technological changes all of which were simply mind boggling. Then, out of nowhere comes a report of a giant growling beast stepping from a roadside thicket …

It is my contention if it weren’t for the negative connotations and name calling, I believe we would see more and more people stepping forward with eye-witness accounts. Nobody in my mind would subject themselves to this sort of ridicule in that time for laughs and giggles.


Doctors, engineers, law enforcement officers, professional white and blue collar people alike have and do share personal accounts but mostly with strict understanding of confidentially. Why? Chiefly because of the same reasons I mentioned above, and whether or not DNA is offered and proven, or a body is found is less important. What is more important in my opinion has more to do with public perception than proving something to the satisfaction of science or non-believers.  

Longtime respected source for Bigfoot matters created a database of sorts and in some circles; it is made available for view. I’ve seen it, read it, and I paid particular attention to sources. Remarkably, whatever year or years he created that it was studious about witnesses and sources. Many of the sources were law enforcement of various agencies that provided details as long as their identities were withheld.  Are they liars or fabricators? I cannot answer that, but I highly doubt it.


Enough said about the injustices these women endured, it was a tough card they were dealt, and I wanted interested parties to understand how undeserving the treatment they encountered actually was.  I am pleased you read my post and congratulate you for your cogent points and salient questions. Again, I must remind you I am not a Bigfoot investigator but I certainly know a few and nothing written in response to your reply should be construed as a personal affront please …  
“I’m not sure that hundreds of sightings would equal thousands of witnesses.”  - Quite Contrary

I do not have the exact data in front of me but [as it pertains to Michigan] a large number of sightings occur by motorists as these bi-pedal giants are crossing the roads. Suffice it to say whether you believe that or not, does not matter me. Reports are only as good as the receiver and are always subjective to the receiver's experience. Nevertheless, many reports by motorist took place while occupied by two or more occupants and many reports are made by more than one motorists on the same road or in opposing traffic who also witness the same anomaly at the same time. Thus, taking all instances of multiple witnesses such as bonfires, parties, campers, motorists, neighbors where large numbers are present and you have thousands of witnesses.

When looking at these accounts there are analyzed for specific locations of sightings a vast number occur during road crossings and by hunters and others during outdoor recreation in Michigan. Seldom do hunters, campers, snowmobilers, fisherman, ATV four-wheelers go off into the woods solo. That is not to say some do, but many go in pairs of two, four, five, or six or larger groups for example. Many of the reports in the woods are witnessed by multiple witnesses.  Reasonable enough.

I once read someplace that Michigan, the winter wonderland of many lakes, boasted of over 82 million acres of forested land. Some of that would swamp and impenetrable thickets for the inexperienced outdoorsmen, not to mention large wooded plots surrounding some of the thousands of agricultural farmlands either.

What I find curious is how some people call for higher standards of proof of these creatures in our woods than the bar of justice in criminal law. I mean, could you for one second imagine the public outrage if a bank having just been robbed was told, “You are confabulating this alleged robbery. If you don’t have DNA or a body then you are not a credible witness,” by a police officer?

Put another way, its late at night and you encounter a thief in garage, a shed or a barn and in the one brief moment of time it is frightened and flees but not before he or she steals a chicken, bicycle, or lawnmower. You call police and they arrive and determine you are not a credible witness for whatever reason they determine … Never mind the fact that a crime was committed and you were in the best position to confront the thief.


And yet another example, you confront a stranger, a peeping tom late at night peering inside your neighbor’s window. You see him, he sees you and flees. Your common sense tells you he is much larger than you and decide not to give chase and call police instead. When the officers arrive you offer them your report and they respond by asking, “Where’s the DNA,  where is the body?”

Now, for my final example … You are starting your car on a cold Michigan morning. You step outside in time to see a thief climbing in your car and away he goes with it. You are the best witness on scene although your neighbor seen the same thing. You call to report incident and a mailman, a school teacher, a part-time student, or an auto mechanic arrives instead of experienced police officer to take your complaint. They arrive and convince you they are investigators based on their limited investigative skills and abilities, police related accreditation or training and begin questioning. After you relate the incident and describe the suspect they stop, asking you “Do you have DNA? Do you have a body? What about hair samples?” Well, I am sorry sir, we cannot believe a word you say because you have no evidence. I, [Me] determined that I am sole arbiter and judge best suited to say who is or isn’t a credible witness. What about the patch of dry pavement and broken glass where you claim your alleged car was parked? How would that make you feel? Does a victim need to present DNA, hair follicles or a body to prove they are a victim? You argue a little, and they relent a little. “Okay would you mind taking a lie detector test? The instrument we use hasn’t changed a bit since 1914.  Yes sir, it’s older than your grandfather but it will tell us if you lying or not. If you fail that test we will call you a liar and it will reported as such in the newspaper.”  

Of course this doesn’t occur, but what if it did? I hope that I have explained this well enough to illustrate how ridiculous and utterly unfair those women were treated during the 1965 Monroe Monster incident. But really, why on earth would anyone place themselves in that situation and do that for attention? Make sense? No it doesn’t. It’s absolutely laughable.

What do I believe you ask? I have done a lot of investigating of crimes and successfully located a missing relative after 32 years. I believe there are plenty of shills and unstable people running loose out there. I have seen and experienced a lot over years both good and bad in my humble opinion. Nothing is absolute, but nothing is what it appears all the time either. In your reply you mentioned ghosts and other entities. Well, the very nature of the work places police officers in a unique position to see and unexplained things public will never know because they aren’t discussed openly but things do occur. This is not the proper forum for any personal accounts so I’ll defer from going into any of that.

Through it all, I still see goodness in humanity and learned to scrutinize without discounting until proven otherwise. I also believe that if public were subjected to same extraordinarily high bar of standards [as illustrated above] in criminal justice as Bigfoot detractors set, two things  would occur: People would stop reporting crimes or there would public outrage so loud that it would send waves of tremors throughout the land … I enjoyed your reply Quite Contrary …

Edited by Still Waters, 13 September 2013 - 09:05 AM.
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#5    IMGumsho

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:21 AM

Hello White Unicorn, thank you for the reply. You know ... I have no idea what those things are but I am convinced they exist. Are they good or evil? I cannot answer that either. One of the most common statements I hear from friends in Michigan and Texas, Oklahoma and North Carolina is: 1970's was the period that saw the most Bigfoot activity. I know nothing about 1970s Bigfoot activity but I am inclined to believe that, our population and development has grown exponentially over the past few decades ... These beings in the woods by all accounts, if we believe history, tells us they have been here for a very long period. They choose not to associate with mankind and perhaps, just perhaps, we are expanding deeper into wilderness areas formerly seen as their range. Are we, will we find ourselves in the near future competing with these unknown hominids for scarce food and water resources? What will the end result be? Can man and beast co-exist under pressure?

My initial stated purpose here was to bring to light several problems with the 1965 Monroe Monster incident. Why do authorities and media go to extraordinary means to discount and flame victims who are in many instances already traumatized by their encounters. In doing so, I ask why is it that so many demand much more physical evidence of a mere sighting report than standard bar of justice used in common criminal justice? A reasonable question I think. I mean take a moment and give it some thought. Have you ever called police to report an assault? vandalism? a theft? or a suspicious person?

Has the reporting officer or investigator ever asked you to produce DNA samples or a body before deciding whether or not you are a credible witness?  The answer is simple, you better not present a body ... Why then is it expected that anyone reporting a creature so large and hideous beyond one's reality to be discounted, or maligned? It is simply illogical. And who are we to decide what is real or not? Are we so superior that we should presume that we are the end all or all beings living or dead? Those are questions that I believe are meant to be left unanswered ... How about you?

~IMGumsho


#6    QuiteContrary

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 04:04 AM

Imo:
any bolding or underlining mine

--You are correct, this isn’t personal, or about stories swaying my opinion. The question of bigfoot’s existence is about documented physical evidence changing my opinion.

It is my contention if it weren’t for the negative connotations and name calling, I believe we would see more and more people stepping forward with eye-witness accounts. Nobody in my mind would subject themselves to this sort of ridicule in that time for laughs and giggles.
--The more reports that you believe would surface only helps to make me wonder even more—Why no evidence or photos? It weakens the case for a bigfoot, for me, not strengthens it. And, there is possibly less ridicule and a few bucks to be had in bigfoot these days.

“Nevertheless, many reports by motorist took place while occupied by two or more occupants and many reports are made by more than one motorists on the same road or in opposing traffic who also witness the same anomaly at the same time”
--Can you confirm this with the reports you speak about?  

I am not a conspiratorial type therefore I cannot imagine all these Bigfoot or Sasquatch fabrications from the likes of ancient Indians, British Colonial officers, American Colonial General’s, early French explorers and Catholic missionaries either traversing the Detroit River, or navigating the untamed woods of Michigan. Nor will I believe that Teddy Roosevelt or the legendary Daniel Boone and thousands of people across the country and
Canada are lying.
--Could you also explain why Roosevelt’s retelling (he was not a witness!) in his book of an old tale recollected years later by the only living witness to the event, Bauman, equates to validation of the story?
--Can you confirm any of the above historical accounts from sites or books other than bigfoot proponents?
--Can you confirm the alleged creatures in any of these stories are a match for our modern day zoologically sound bigfoot?
--Can you personally attest to the character of these alleged bigfoot witnesses?
--Can you show some Native American bigfoot tales that match the zoologically sound bigfoot in modern America reports?

“When looking at these accounts there are analyzed for specific locations of sightings a vast number occur during road crossings and by hunters and others during outdoor recreation inMichigan. Seldom do hunters, campers, snowmobilers, fisherman, ATV four-wheelers go off into the woods solo. That is not to say some do, but many go in pairs of two, four, five, or six or larger groups for example. Many of the reports in the woods are witnessed by multiple witnesses.  Reasonable enough.
--Imo, nothing is “reasonable” when it comes to stories of a giant bipedal animal roaming NA, witnessed by thousands in one state alone yet so far remains hidden from science, trail cams and a DNA laboratory. We just get theories to excuse this creature from any copability and the witnesses from any accountability.

"Has the reporting officer or investigator ever asked you to produce DNA samples or a body before deciding whether or not you are a credible witness?  The answer is simple, you better not present a body ... Why then is it expected that anyone reporting a creature so large and hideous beyond one's reality to be discounted, or maligned? It is simply illogical. And who are we to decide what is real or not? Are we so superior that we should presume that we are the end all or all beings living or dead? Those are questions that I believe are meant to be left unanswered ... How about you?"
--How are we unfair to alleged bigfoot witnesses because we want DNA or footage or a body before some of us will take bigfoot seriously, when police ask far less to believe an alleged eye witness to a crime or such? I’m lost on the connection between the two. Between me witnessing a burglary at my neighbor’s and telling police what I saw, and me witnessing a bigfoot and telling, say, a reporter. My neighbor’s house exists, burglars and burglaries exist, the police by law would have to report this alleged incident. And if it is my neighborhood I sure hope the law would look into it. That is their job.
--How does this equate to me believing someone or many someones retelling their alleged, unproven, encounter with an unknown, undocumented, unspecified, unidentified, creature? This is what is illogical to me.

Edited by QuiteContrary, 09 September 2013 - 04:12 AM.





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