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Secret Caves under the Pyramids


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#511    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 14 February 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

I did not say construc tion ramps, i said ramps.  Of course they did not have the time to just create ramps for the fu n of it.  They would have had a practical application so what was it?

They mostly built steps and stairs to get from one level to another but there are ramps here and there
especially for lower inclines where steps are less efficient for most walkers.  The earliest attested usage
of ramps is as a walkway;

1717a. A ramp is trodden for thee to the Dȝ.t to the place where Śȝḥ is.

This usage of the word comes from long after the great pyramid buiulding age and is in reference to a
walkway and not anything like a highway ramp or construction ramp.  There are numerous usage of the
words "steps" and "stairs" in this exact same work as the means by which the dead king accesses heaven.
The word "ramp" isn't attested at all from the great pyramid building era or earlier!!! It would be quite an
achievement to build a great pyramid with ramps but an even greater achievement to do it without ever
using the word.

These so called ramps they have found are all pretty flimsy, all point away from or to the base of the py-
ramid, and have not been sjhown to have anything to do with dragging stones.  They actually constitute
fairly good evidence that ramps were not used to lift stones on the great pyramids since they can not be
integral to any ramping system and imply stones were delivered to the base.

There are far easier way to lift stones into a pile than to create ramps and drag the pile up them.  So why
is everyone married to ramps?  Why would anyone want to do it the hard way?  Why would anyone do it
the hard way and then leave lots of evidence they did it the easy way?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#512    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 07:40 PM

View PostHarte, on 14 February 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:


Quaentum,

Cladking already knows that remains of ramps at the foot of the G.P. have been discovered, indicating that the stones were lifted out of the quarry (that is right in front of the G.P.) with ramps.

He has also been shown the many and varied remains of ramps at other pyramid sites - including ramps that are still there even to this day.

There is  no evidence any stone was ever lifted up any great pyramid with ramps.  You're
just playing word games.  You've had years to show evidence and have failed. The only thing
that even approaches being evidence for ramps is the debris in the main G1 quarry but like
everything else this has never been studied.  

Quote

Once everything was ramped up out of the quarry, then the soda water geyser equipment took over, according to him.


Not exactly.  While you're pretty much literally correct it must be noted that no man ever dragged
a stone, I believe.  Stones were dragged out of the quarry by the counterweights.  Isis the counter-
weight gave birth to horus the quarried stone.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#513    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 February 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

  Isis the counter-weight gave birth to horus the quarried stone.
I am familiar with your contention about isis and Horus, and have to say that it is wrong. Horus is clearly a sky god, not a metaphor for lumps of rock. Sky gods in some religions are known to be the original god of that religion, though often seem to be downgraded in later times. For instance Germanic Tyr or Tiwas ended as a god of war, but his origin was as a sky god, and probably originally was seen as God. Slavic Hors is a sky god, and shares attributes with Horus, though similar name is just co-incidental. Horus is a part of God, not a lump of rock. I too read pyramid texts, Faulkner version, and see nothing to suggest Horus is anything except a skygod and certainly has nothing to do with pyramid building. And BTW, there is nothing wrong with my eyes, I see a spiral in BUI, and what is seen is too irregular to be steps, which should mirror the external shape of the pyramid ground plan.


#514    Harte

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 08:55 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 February 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

There is  no evidence any stone was ever lifted up any great pyramid with ramps.  You're
just playing word games.  You've had years to show evidence and have failed. The only thing
that even approaches being evidence for ramps is the debris in the main G1 quarry but like
everything else this has never been studied.  

View PostHarte, on 01 June 2010 - 05:12 PM, said:

Again, Cladking, you demonstrate that you have no knowledge whatsoever of the actual facts that have been established.

Ramp leading to Khufru's pyramid:


PDF including information about a ramp used in construction of Menkaure's mortuary temple.

Menkaure was the successor to Khafre, and another pharoah from the 4th dynasty (just like Khufu.)

Ramp remains found in various places around Egypt:


More on remains of ramps:



Sinki pyramid ramps (3rd Dynasty)near Abydos:



Sinki again:


Same site shows a pic of construction ramps for an unfinished Giza pyramid.

There is plenty more evidence of ramp usage in Ancient Egypt contemporary with the 4th Dynasty or, at the very least, contemporary with the Old Kingdom.

Quotes were provided in the post I made in 2010 from the above linked pages.  To see these, check the Source

Not only has the case been clearly and logically made for ramps, the case is almost airtight.

Say, where's the evidence for this geyser again?  When was it discovered? Who discovered it?  Is there one under every pyramid? Why not?  How'd they move these other huge blocks then?  Was it from whale's blowholes?  The Hand of God?  Did an earthquake fling all these other blocks in other pyramids into place?

Harte

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#515    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:11 PM

View PostHarte, on 14 February 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

Quotes were provided in the post I made in 2010 from the above linked pages.  To see these, check the Source

Not only has the case been clearly and logically made for ramps, the case is almost airtight.

You've only proved you don't read the simple sentence that there is no evidence that any stone was ever lifted
on any great pyramid.  Rather than address this you cite links that are wholly irrelevant because they are refering
to other than great pyramids or are irrelevant.  You cite things that are not addressing the question or have been
shown countless times to be inaccurate or speculative.  Why don't you link my reply to your irrelevancies?

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#516    Harte

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:12 PM

I see.

Other pyramids comparable in size to the Great Pyramid - they used ramps.

The Great Pyramid - geysers that nobody can find (but ramps galore at Giza.)

Right.  Makes sense.

Harte

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#517    Quaentum

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:27 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 February 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

They mostly built steps and stairs to get from one level to another but there are ramps here and there
especially for lower inclines where steps are less efficient for most walkers.  The earliest attested usage
of ramps is as a walkway;

1717a. A ramp is trodden for thee to the Dȝ.t to the place where Śȝḥ is.

This usage of the word comes from long after the great pyramid buiulding age and is in reference to a
walkway and not anything like a highway ramp or construction ramp.  There are numerous usage of the
words "steps" and "stairs" in this exact same work as the means by which the dead king accesses heaven.
The word "ramp" isn't attested at all from the great pyramid building era or earlier!!! It would be quite an
achievement to build a great pyramid with ramps but an even greater achievement to do it without ever
using the word.

These so called ramps they have found are all pretty flimsy, all point away from or to the base of the py-
ramid, and have not been sjhown to have anything to do with dragging stones.  They actually constitute
fairly good evidence that ramps were not used to lift stones on the great pyramids since they can not be
integral to any ramping system and imply stones were delivered to the base.

There are far easier way to lift stones into a pile than to create ramps and drag the pile up them.  So why
is everyone married to ramps?  Why would anyone want to do it the hard way?  Why would anyone do it
the hard way and then leave lots of evidence they did it the easy way?

What evidence do you have that they mostly used steps and stairs?

Yes the PT do come well after the pyramid building age, but the reference to ramps in the pt does signify that the egyptians knew about them before hand and the fact that ramps have been found with the pyramids means they knew about them during the pyramid building age.  It matters not if they are mentioned in any writings from the pyramid building age at all since they do exist.

Is it not contradictory to say in one breath there is no evidence that stones were hauled up ramps in building of the great pyramid and ramps were too flimsy to haul stones, yet in the next breath say it is implied they were used to deliver the stones to the base of the pyramid?  Would that not also require the stones to be hauled up the ramp?

I would also like to know who says they hauled piles of stones up the ramps?  One at a time would be easier.

If by "The easy way" you mean your theory of geysers, please enlighten me as to what text, writings or actual evidence from the age of pyramid building you have that supports that theory.

Edited by Quaentum, 14 February 2013 - 09:29 PM.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#518    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

Quote

And BTW, there is nothing wrong with my eyes, I see a spiral in BUI, and what is seen is too irregular to be steps, which should mirror the external shape of the pyramid ground plan.

I know you see a spiral.  I bet you wouldn't see a spiral if you drew in the five step pyramid as
I explained.  Optical illusions exist only where there is nothing wrong with your eyes.  There is
no spiral ramp here. Try drawing in the five steps and what you think you see will nearly vanish.

View PostAtentutankh-pasheri, on 14 February 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I am familiar with your contention about isis and Horus, and have to say that it is wrong. Horus is clearly a sky god, not a metaphor for lumps of rock. Sky gods in some religions are known to be the original god of that religion, though often seem to be downgraded in later times.

I probably shouldn't have made the statement.  I know that it is anathema to almost everyone
who studies the ancients but this is related to the caves and how the PT says they really built
the pyramids.  Everything has been all jumbled up because it has been interpreted and trans-
lated in terms of later times.  You're, of course, right that Horus was a sky god but this was Horus
the elder or Horus god of the land of rainbows whoi was a sky god.  Horus, son of Isis was very
much different and didn't exist until they began building in the land of Horus. Tayet was the god-
dess of the quarry and a generic goddess but Horus was specific to "Rosteau" (Mouth of Caves).
This is spelled out perfectly clearly in the PT;

1964d. as Isis said to Nun:
1965a. "I have given birth to him for thee; I have deposited him for thee; 1 have certainly spit him out for thee."
1965b. He has no feet; he has no arms,

Horus has no feet and no arms.  He has hands and legs though.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#519    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 09:54 PM

View PostHarte, on 14 February 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

I see.

Other pyramids comparable in size to the Great Pyramid - they used ramps.

Right.  Makes sense.

Read the post again.

Great pyramids  got progressively larger until they stopped after building G2.

The first great pyramid was Djoser Pyramid.  They are ALL five step pyramids and there
is no evidence any were built with ramps.  Any pyramid that does not foit these definitions
is not a great pyramid.

Egyptology tries to hide the facts behind a sandstorm of words and misdirection.  They try
to pretend that ramps are established fact where the only argument (they mustta used ramps)
has been utterly disproven and the means used is otherwise evidenced.  These are five steps
because they had to be built by pulling the stones up the side because ramps are an imposs-
ibility.  Ramps are unevidenced bewcause they werem't used and they weren't used because
they would have been the hardest possible way to lift stones.

Please read and understand each sentence here before responding.  We just go through the
same thing with every post.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#520    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:11 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

What evidence do you have that they mostly used steps and stairs?

I don't consider this of much import but the fact is steps are easier to handle than ramps. They
are more natural to the human gait and we still use them today.  Of course, there are both steps
and ramps surviving from the great pyramid building age.  A good rule of thumb then as now is
that inclines of less than 10 degrees will usually be an inclined plane but for walkways they will
tend to use steps for steeper ascents.  

Quote

  It matters not if they are mentioned in any writings from the pyramid building age at all since they do exist.

Of course it matters. We are told there's plenty of evidence and cultural context but they neglected
to even use the word "ramp"!!!  This meansd there are no "Overseers of Ramp Builders", and no
"Overseer of Ramp Dismantlers", no "Ramp Designers", no gods of ramps no inscriptions of "the Crew
of the Drunken Ramp Builders of Khufu,  no nothing.  Everywhere you look there are no ramps. There
are no exceptions to this and there are no ramps.  How can this be if there were ramps?  How can there
be no evidence for ramps and no word for ramps?

Quote

Is it not contradictory to say in one breath there is no evidence that stones were hauled up ramps in building of the great pyramid and ramps were too flimsy to haul stones, yet in the next breath say it is implied they were used to deliver the stones to the base of the pyramid?  Would that not also require the stones to be hauled up the ramp?

The question isn't whether or not there are ramps.  We all know there were ramps.  The question
is how did they lift stones to build great pyramids (NOT SINKI!!!!!!).  This is where there is no evidence
that ramps were used.  Of the several ramps associated wirth great pyramids none are on the pyramid
or pointed at it, And sufficiently robust, And not explained as for some other use than lifting stones on
the pyramid.  None can be explained as part of a ramping system to deliver stones high on the pyramid
exclusively.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#521    Harte

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:17 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 February 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Read the post again.

Great pyramids  got progressively larger until they stopped after building G2.

The first great pyramid was Djoser Pyramid.  They are ALL five step pyramids and there
is no evidence any were built with ramps.  Any pyramid that does not foit these definitions
is not a great pyramid.
The Red Pyramid is a "step pyramid?"

Posted Image

Once covered in Tura limestone exactly like the Great Pyramid.

How is this a step pyramid?  I mean, any more than Khufu's is a step pyramid.

Please consider any of the rules of logic that you might possibly still have at your command before replying.

Harte

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#522    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostQuaentum, on 14 February 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

I would also like to know who says they hauled piles of stones up the ramps?  One at a time would be easier.

The pyramid is the "pile of stones" to which I was referring.

Quote

If by "The easy way" you mean your theory of geysers, please enlighten me as to what text, writings or actual evidence from the age of pyramid building you have that supports that theory.

No, no, no.  By the "easy way" I mean the way that is actually evidenced; pulling the stones
straight up the side.  This is how they actually built the pyramids based on the actual evidence
rather than the belief that they could only have used ramps.  Pulling the stones up the side
was many times easier than building ramps and dragging stones on them.

It is incidental to this very nearly established fact that I believe that they used water filled coun-
ter weights to drag the styones styraight up the side.  This would probably be established fact
as well if the powers that be weren't sitting on their hands (much like a stone) for the last 6 1/2
years.  The facts are really pretty determinative here considering all the evidence isa they had
water and that the pyramids are all built right on water collection devices.

What we "know" for fact is they pulled stones up the side and what is apparent is that they used
water to do it.  I believe the water arrived naturally at the pyramid site therough the caves.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#523    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostHarte, on 14 February 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

The Red Pyramid is a "step pyramid?"

Posted Image

Once covered in Tura limestone exactly like the Great Pyramid.

How is this a step pyramid?  I mean, any more than Khufu's is a step pyramid.

Please consider any of the rules of logic that you might possibly still have at your command before replying.

The evidence for this pyramid being a step pyramid is the weakest of all the great pyramids.

Why don't we simply demand they do a gravimetric scan of this pyramid and prove me wrong?
If I can be shown to be wrong about one then I'm most probably wrong about all of them.  We
can add this to the list of science they aren't doing in Egypt.

What are they  afraid of.

I'd love them to show this wasn't a five step pyramid so I can get back to what I used to do.  But
everytime they do actual science in the last 150 years it supports geysers and not ramps.  This
test would not support ramps any more than any other real science has supportyed ramps be-
cause they did not use ramps and proper theory "always" makes accurate predictions.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#524    cormac mac airt

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:31 PM

View Postcladking, on 14 February 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

Read the post again.

Great pyramids got progressively larger until they stopped after building G2.

The first great pyramid was Djoser Pyramid.  They are ALL five step pyramids and there
is no evidence any were built with ramps.  Any pyramid that does not foit these definitions
is not a great pyramid.

Egyptology tries to hide the facts behind a sandstorm of words and misdirection.  They try
to pretend that ramps are established fact where the only argument (they mustta used ramps)
has been utterly disproven and the means used is otherwise evidenced.  These are five steps
because they had to be built by pulling the stones up the side because ramps are an imposs-
ibility.  Ramps are unevidenced bewcause they werem't used and they weren't used because
they would have been the hardest possible way to lift stones.

Please read and understand each sentence here before responding.  We just go through the
same thing with every post.

No, they're not. For your 5 step pyramid to work each step would have to be separate from the one above/below it. It's quite obvious from Bui's densitogram that this is not true anywhere on the Great Pyramid. A continual, counter-clockwise spiral can be seen on its layout. That you don't like this is irrelevant to the fact that it exists. Nor are the lines, as per the densitogram, at exactly the same height all the way around the GP which as they should be for your 5-step layout to work.

cormac


G2 is not larger than G1, that's why they call G1 "the Great Pyramid".

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#525    cladking

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Posted 14 February 2013 - 10:54 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 14 February 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

No, they're not. For your 5 step pyramid to work each step would have to be separate from the one above/below it. It's quite obvious from Bui's densitogram that this is not true anywhere on the Great Pyramid. A continual, counter-clockwise spiral can be seen on its layout. That you don't like this is irrelevant to the fact that it exists. Nor are the lines, as per the densitogram, at exactly the same height all the way around the GP which as they should be for your 5-step layout to work.

G2 is not larger than G1, that's why they call G1 "the Great Pyramid".

http://hdbui.blogspot.com/

Look at the image at the top of the page.  You can see that right under it he specifically forbids
anyone from adding the five steps.  I'm not the one who doesn't like the facts.  It's the status quo
that doesn't like the fact that this is a five step pyramid.  I've got the picture right here and would
post it in a heart beat except I'm confident it's forbidden specifically.  So if you want to see it then
you have to draw your own.  I would hurry though as I expect this information to be removed from
the net altogether since everyone is afraid of the pyramid and afraid of the truth.  There are no
ramps and they lifted each stone one step at a time as proven by the facts.  They did not have to
use ramps and they didn't use ramps.

G2 used to be called "the Great Pyramid".  The difference in size is not great.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.




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