117 replies to this topic

[Koreyomg]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 06 January 2013 - 12:19 AM, said:

It just doesn't make sense to me for creation to be caused by multiple conscious beings. For one gigantic cosmological blueprint of how the entire universe works to be constructed by multiple conscious beings, they would all have to agree on everything for it to work, which we know from history that such a thing has never happened.

Regarding one famous NDE from Mellen-Thomas Benedict when he experienced existence in the void...
"When I say that I could see or perceive forever, I mean that I could experience all of creation generating itself. It was without beginning and without end. That's a mind-expanding thought, isn't it? Scientists perceive the Big Bang as a single event which created the universe. I saw that the Big Bang is only one of an infinite number of Big Bangs creating universes endlessly and simultaneously. The only images that even come close in human terms would be those created by supercomputers using fractal geometry equations."

[Koreyomg]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 05 January 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

Well, I can understand it if the belief is "God is a figment of our imagination" argument, you hear that all the time. What confused me was the wording, it sounds as if you're saying "we created ourselves" which is a scientific paradox that's just personally difficult to comprehend...

And keep in mind that time is not static and to my knowledge non existent in the astral plane. So you are not restricted to the term present as time itself does not exist. So the paradox only exists in your mind, as you stated, because you cannot comprehend the idea of being your own creator.

Edited by Koreyomg, 06 January 2013 - 12:47 AM.

[Lion6969]

Darkwind, on 04 January 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

In pantheism god is everything, so we are god along with everything else, rocks, kittycats, dogs, birds.... As above, so below.

Does that really include everything? Does it include the waste that comes out of you when you sit on the toilet to relieve yourself?

[AquilaChrysaetos]

Talk about having a God complex...

[Lion6969]

Mr Right Wing, on 04 January 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

Nearly right.

While pantheism says god is everything there are no seperate objects which exist. Everything is one. This is possible because reality is just a collection of perceptions it isnt objectively real.

So in effect the only thing that exists is your mind and this is what God is.

I agree with most of what you say regarding our reality and it's true nature, however to conclude from that, that we are our own gods is incorrect. We don't create the perception just like a tv receptor does not create the image on screen but decodes the signal and interprets it, our brain does the same. We interact with the perception. We don't control it, if we are the perceivers of the perception than there is a producer of it and has full control over it, that would be logically a god not us! Not aliens or other beings too, because they too would exist within our physical reality our universe our perception, they too would be perceivers and interacting with it.

You can call yourself human because we have all the human attributes that make us human, you have no attributes of god that makes god what he is!

[AquilaChrysaetos]

Koreyomg, on 06 January 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

And keep in mind that time is not static and to my knowledge non existent in the astral plane. So you are not restricted to the term present as time itself does not exist. So the paradox only exists in your mind, as you stated, because you cannot comprehend the idea of being your own creator.

The whole "time is an illusion" theory has never been proven or disproven so using completely theoretical science to back up your claim isn't exactly the best way to convince me.

[pallidin]

AquilaChrysaetos, on 06 January 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

The whole "time is an illusion" theory has never been proven or disproven so using completely theoretical science to back up your claim isn't exactly the best way to convince me.

Right. Yet please keep in mind that "time" is a difficult subject amongst "experts"

That is, "time" logically only exists if there is "change", and it's the change that gives rise to the idea of "time"

The fact that our entire physical universe and internal experience involves "change" (a "before-during-after" if you will), is what physicists and common people use to "validate" the existance of the concept known as "time"

The biggest problem, though, is that time does not appear to be a "force" like, say, atomic forces and such.

Rather, it is a concept of differance, movement or change.

It's very much real, but poorly understood.

[AquilaChrysaetos]

pallidin, on 06 January 2013 - 02:23 AM, said:

Right. Yet please keep in mind that "time" is a difficult subject amongst "experts"

That is, "time" logically only exists if there is "change", and it's the change that gives rise to the idea of "time"

The fact that our entire physical universe and internal experience involves "change" (a "before-during-after" if you will), is what physicists and common people use to "validate" the existance of the concept known as "time"

The biggest problem, though, is that time does not appear to be a "force" like, say, atomic forces and such.

Rather, it is a concept of differance, movement or change.

It's very much real, but poorly understood.

I agree mostly. However there are still some scientists who still suggest time doesn't exist. I personally believe it does, for what would be the purpose in anything if it didn't? (at least that's how I see it. Anyway, scientists have discussed ways to challenge this theory concerning the measurement of photons in different areas of the universe, however such experiments cannot currently be performed with our current technology though.

[joc]

Koreyomg, on 04 January 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

May not be the right forum. But I have heard this a lot lately from some very spiritual people. And actually recently found it in a philosophical book by Deepak Chopra. Basically stating that we are our own god. Or I believe someone pointed to their head when asked about god.

It kind of makes more sense than a lot of other claims. To say that we are our own creator, so in essence we are god, our own god.

Is this something that is a popular belief or am I just coincidentally seeing this? I am really interested to hear what others have come to believe.

...you specifically mentioned Deepak Chopra...did you read the book?  If so did you understand what he was talking about? Apparently not. So, please let me explain this for you:

When you break down matter, anything, everything, what you finally end up with is pure energy.  Everything that exists is manifested out of a pool of infinite potential.   What Chopra is saying is that we are all made of the same Energy...manifested as different things.  Many Creationists/Christians think of God as separate from Creation.  Deepak Chopra is saying, paraphrasing, that God IS this Energy of which everything exists.  And this Energy (God) manifests itself as Mankind  and Animalkind and Plantkind and everything, the wind that blows, the clouds, the stars, the Space between the stars...it all manifested Energy.  Therefore, everything is God because everything is Energy and God is Energy.  We did not manifest ourselves...Energy manifested Itself as us.  Energy manifested Itself as The Universe.  So, one could say then that I am God and You are God and the Trees are God, etc.
My personal thought on all of this, I am God thinking, is that it does nothing to articulate the Truth.  The Truth is that Energy is all that exists.  How it manifests, why it manifests, if it manifests at all,  these are questions to ponder in one's own heart.

Edited by joc, 06 January 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[AsteroidX]

You are god. Where do I sign up for an insurance policy ?

[Beany]

joc, on 06 January 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

...you specifically mentioned Deepak Chopra...did you read the book?  If so did you understand what he was talking about? Apparently not. So, please let me explain this for you:

When you break down matter, anything, everything, what you finally end up with is pure energy.  Everything that exists is manifested out of a pool of infinite potential.   What Chopra is saying is that we are all made of the same Energy...manifested as different things.  Many Creationists/Christians think of God as separate from Creation.  Deepak Chopra is saying, paraphrasing, that God IS this Energy of which everything exists.  And this Energy (God) manifests itself as Mankind  and Animalkind and Plantkind and everything, the wind that blows, the clouds, the stars, the Space between the stars...it all manifested Energy.  Therefore, everything is God because everything is Energy and God is Energy.  We did not manifest ourselves...Energy manifested Itself as us.  Energy manifested Itself as The Universe.  So, one could say then that I am God and You are God and the Trees are God, etc.
My personal thought on all of this, I am God thinking, is that it does nothing to articulate the Truth.  The Truth is that Energy is all that exists.  How it manifests, why it manifests, if it manifests at all,  these are questions to ponder in one's own heart.

And some choose to call this manifested energy "God" or identify it as God and others call it something else, and some have no name for it. I call it "intelligent energy." As to the how & why of how and when and it what form it manifests, I can and have engaged in a lot of speculation, some of which I was quite attached to, but the truth is, it remains a mystery to me.

[euroninja]

There's nothing God about us right now. This obsession about being God. Give me a break! We don't even have a cure for the common flu.

[joc]

Beany, on 06 January 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

And some choose to call this manifested energy "God" or identify it as God and others call it something else, and some have no name for it. I call it "intelligent energy." As to the how & why of how and when and it what form it manifests, I can and have engaged in a lot of speculation, some of which I was quite attached to, but the truth is, it remains a mystery to me.

The rest of the truth is..it remains a mystery to all.  It is just something that one cannot really grasp.  And yet, when you boil it all down, there it is.  Energy.  I call it Infinite Energy.  But whatever it is called...it is.  Moses said the Burning Bush called it I AM.  
The log burns and its energy becomes heat which becomes wind...and then... the heat is gone, and the wind is gone...and all that is left is ash.  Where did all the energy go?  We know it didn't end.  The heat was transformed into wind.  The wind was transformed into a leaf blowing.  The leaf fell into a pond and deteriorated into the water and became sediment..from which a bog plant grew and the leaf became food for the bog plant...which grew and produced an environment for a butterfly to lay eggs...and on and on and on.   I am just in awe of it all.

[Koreyomg]

joc, on 06 January 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

...you specifically mentioned Deepak Chopra...did you read the book?  If so did you understand what he was talking about? Apparently not. So, please let me explain this for you:

When you break down matter, anything, everything, what you finally end up with is pure energy.  Everything that exists is manifested out of a pool of infinite potential.   What Chopra is saying is that we are all made of the same Energy...manifested as different things.  Many Creationists/Christians think of God as separate from Creation.  Deepak Chopra is saying, paraphrasing, that God IS this Energy of which everything exists.  And this Energy (God) manifests itself as Mankind  and Animalkind and Plantkind and everything, the wind that blows, the clouds, the stars, the Space between the stars...it all manifested Energy.  Therefore, everything is God because everything is Energy and God is Energy.  We did not manifest ourselves...Energy manifested Itself as us.  Energy manifested Itself as The Universe.  So, one could say then that I am God and You are God and the Trees are God, etc.
My personal thought on all of this, I am God thinking, is that it does nothing to articulate the Truth.  The Truth is that Energy is all that exists.  How it manifests, why it manifests, if it manifests at all,  these are questions to ponder in one's own heart.

While he himself doesn't actually says hey "I believe_____" in the book he does talk a lot about the beliefs of cultures that he grew up with. While reading it I interpreted his stance as the same. That he understands that the god is within.

I didn't feel like typing it out from the book but I did find it online, read a bit before this quote if you don't mind..

books.google.com/books?id=r4N5yTJAYu0C&pg=PA31&dq=To+say+%22I+am+God%22+comes+naturally+with+atman.+It&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AynpUNy-D4Xq0QHaz4HQDA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA

Edited by Koreyomg, 06 January 2013 - 07:35 AM.

[Koreyomg]

joc, on 06 January 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

The rest of the truth is..it remains a mystery to all.  It is just something that one cannot really grasp.  And yet, when you boil it all down, there it is.  Energy.  I call it Infinite Energy.  But whatever it is called...it is.  Moses said the Burning Bush called it I AM.  
The log burns and its energy becomes heat which becomes wind...and then... the heat is gone, and the wind is gone...and all that is left is ash.  Where did all the energy go?  We know it didn't end.  The heat was transformed into wind.  The wind was transformed into a leaf blowing.  The leaf fell into a pond and deteriorated into the water and became sediment..from which a bog plant grew and the leaf became food for the bog plant...which grew and produced an environment for a butterfly to lay eggs...and on and on and on.   I am just in awe of it all.

"I am" is what we would say once we are free from karma and fully enlightened. A pure blissful being would say simply "I am". They are nothing but that.

I am sure you understand but I wanted to detail it for others to read if they didn't.