902 replies to this topic

[cladking]

ttt

(to make phantom post appear.)

[bom shankra]

this is intended for cladking: extract from victor schaubergers 'nature as teacher, (pp79)

we however will attempt to unveil perhaps the most profound of Nature's secrets, the ur-genesis of the blood of the Earth. In so doing scientific knowledge, which lies an octave too low, will be raised, thereby attaining a level on par with that of ur-ancient Religio,  with the higher order of knowledge of earlier more highly-civilised cultures. These ancient peoples understood how to make use of the inner creative and uplifting forces required to inaugerate the ur-production of material substances, of all growth.Undoubtedly they also made use of them as the almost cost-free drive for powering specially constructed machines. Ancient people were of such high spiritual standing that they also suceeded in overpowering physical gravity with the aid of the original motion of water.

[cladking]

shanka boom, on 10 February 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

this is intended for cladking: extract from victor schaubergers 'nature as teacher, (pp79)

we however will attempt to unveil perhaps the most profound of Nature's secrets, the ur-genesis of the blood of the Earth. In so doing scientific knowledge, which lies an octave too low, will be raised, thereby attaining a level on par with that of ur-ancient Religio,  with the higher order of knowledge of earlier more highly-civilised cultures. These ancient peoples understood how to make use of the inner creative and uplifting forces required to inaugerate the ur-production of material substances, of all growth.Undoubtedly they also made use of them as the almost cost-free drive for powering specially constructed machines. Ancient people were of such high spiritual standing that they also suceeded in overpowering physical gravity with the aid of the original motion of water.

Thanks for this.  I hadn't heard of Shauberger nor his theories.

There's a great deal going on in nature that we are we are not aware of or only dimmly aware.  He
noted the impossibility to explain the ability of trout to swim upstream but this is much more observable
in salmon.  Despit the rushing water they are able to gain the velocity to leap out of the water and
climb fish ladders.  A great deal of what we see is simply written off as mundane yet we can get in
touch with things for which no ready explanation is available or, likely even possible.  Most curiously
I believe the Egyptians even stole some of his ideas to use falling water to pump gas.

I had noted nature's "desire" to have only cool running water.  I always prefer not to think of nature
as an "entity" or as being "conscious" but anyone who watches her knows she has attributes that seem
to match these descriptors.  I hesitate for similar reasons to suggest that the great pyramid builders
were able to utilize aspects of nature of which we are unfamiliar but there is some reason to believe
their science was actually pretty advanced.  Our technology is impressive but even its inventors rarely
understand it  and we never seem to be able to calculate its benefits or costs even after it becomes
obsolete.  We not only stumble blindly intothe future we are stumbling in the present and have ne com-
prehension of our past.

What a strange set of circumstances and then people think geysers are wierd or that it makes perfect
sense to refuse to do basic investigative science.  People are common and strange, geysers are unus-
ual but make sense.

[bom shankra]

that's quick work chadking, I knew you'd relate to it. yes the coolness is the key(4 degrees C, 39 degrees F, the point at which water is at its densest, the anomaly point, the unique property of water as oppose to all other liquids, which become denser as they get cooler), the spring water once breaking the surface is charged with life imbuing properties. similarly, the drop of dew forming on a blade of grass at dawn is what victor calls 'first born', and is like a protoplasm that gradually through infusion with the suns indirect rays is endowed with ur-form (prototype), body and soul. (the foundation stone for new life.).

with the trout, victor is relating how it can remain stationary in a cold fast flowing stream, and then all of a sudden dart up stream, also he says he has observed trout up stream of high waterfalls, so how did they get there? in short he is telling us of a phenomena where there is a opposing levitative force that exists in a naturalesquely flowing mountain stream that literally sucks the fish up its wake, and it has everything to do with the source/quality of the water. man made channels, and turbines etc obliterate this 'living' force of the water. plants and trees he maintains produce a similar effect in terms of drawing their sap up. (if you don't believe in levitation, just come to NZ, and check out the Te Matua Ngahere Kauri tree).

lastly, about our technology; the other day I was thinking about the saying necessity is the mother of invention', but what we call invention in many cases, I would argue to be regurgitation. The same chapter in shaubergers book a little later on (pp83.), says it better that I can myself:

"So called 'savages' puncture plants to slake their thirsts (or maybe partake of the freshly emerged spring) with this exceptionally wholesome water, thus (by and by) becoming so intuitive or receptive towards external influences that they become spiritually aware. Understanding how to make use of this supposed wonder, they stand far above civilized people, who are led astray by relying solely on their speculative talents. As a result, these poor-in-spirit, greedy little misers become more and more spiritually sluggish, utterly ordinary speculators and ponderers, who are incapable of understanding highly intuitive people. Indeed they view such advanced thinkers as madmen. In actual fact the spiritual dimwits are the real 'lunatics', having created a fool's paradise of ours in which we can just about manage to vegetate. In our degenerative way of working, we not only devalue our food but also saw off the very branch of Life on which we sit. of itself......"

n.b. brackets are my words.

[onereaderone]

Imaginarynumber1, on 16 December 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

You just don't want to hear the truth that is back up by evidence: The Egyptians built the pyramids on their no own. No Alien help.

humans  are pretty  clever  ,   i  thing  the  sphinx was  buildt  a  few  days  befor  the  pyrimids ...
the  really  good  question  is  not  why  they  buildt ,  or  how  did  they  build ....the  really  good  question  is  what  is   hidden  by  these  structures  .

when  you  look  at a door  fraim  in  that  area  of  the  world...  you see  how  they  buildt  the  pyrimids

[DieChecker]

cladking, on 09 February 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

It's a dirty shame that you can't take a tour of caves under the pyramids because they refuse
to excavate them and have put gates and padlocks on them.  One can only speculate on what
evidence lies under these caves that can't be examined because we already know everything.

It will likely be a decade till the "known" caves get all the resources to be excavated properly. And then probably another 25 years before it could possibly be opened to the public.

Unless you are one of those who advocates Bulldozer Archeology? Where you just tear through with hundreds of unskilled laborers and then open the site like a sideshow. Interpreting whatever you find with opinion. And displaying everything hodge podge randomly in a hastily constructed "museum". Because the situational relationship of any artifacts would be unknown in the rush to dig and find.

[cladking]

shanka boom, on 10 February 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

that's quick work chadking, I knew you'd relate to it. yes the coolness is the key(4 degrees C, 39 degrees F, the point at which water is at its densest, the anomaly point, the unique property of water as oppose to all other liquids, which become denser as they get cooler), the spring water once breaking the surface is charged with life imbuing properties. similarly, the drop of dew forming on a blade of grass at dawn is what victor calls 'first born', and is like a protoplasm that gradually through infusion with the suns indirect rays is endowed with ur-form (prototype), body and soul. (the foundation stone for new life.).

with the trout, victor is relating how it can remain stationary in a cold fast flowing stream, and then all of a sudden dart up stream, also he says he has observed trout up stream of high waterfalls, so how did they get there? in short he is telling us of a phenomena where there is a opposing levitative force that exists in a naturalesquely flowing mountain stream that literally sucks the fish up its wake, and it has everything to do with the source/quality of the water. man made channels, and turbines etc obliterate this 'living' force of the water. plants and trees he maintains produce a similar effect in terms of drawing their sap up. (if you don't believe in levitation, just come to NZ, and check out the Te Matua Ngahere Kauri tree).

lastly, about our technology; the other day I was thinking about the saying necessity is the mother of invention', but what we call invention in many cases, I would argue to be regurgitation. The same chapter in shaubergers book a little later on (pp83.), says it better that I can myself:

"So called 'savages' puncture plants to slake their thirsts (or maybe partake of the freshly emerged spring) with this exceptionally wholesome water, thus (by and by) becoming so intuitive or receptive towards external influences that they become spiritually aware. Understanding how to make use of this supposed wonder, they stand far above civilized people, who are led astray by relying solely on their speculative talents. As a result, these poor-in-spirit, greedy little misers become more and more spiritually sluggish, utterly ordinary speculators and ponderers, who are incapable of understanding highly intuitive people. Indeed they view such advanced thinkers as madmen. In actual fact the spiritual dimwits are the real 'lunatics', having created a fool's paradise of ours in which we can just about manage to vegetate. In our degenerative way of working, we not only devalue our food but also saw off the very branch of Life on which we sit. of itself......"

n.b. brackets are my words.

People today simply don't consider that ancient people might not have thought like we do and because
of this give no notice to the obvious differences far less the subtle ones.  In the case of the Egyptians,
they lived in a desert and nowhere would it be more obvious to people that water is life.  This simply per-
meated the entire culture and was the basis of the entire economy yet it is interpreted out of everything
that actually survives.  People would see that everywhere water existed in the desert there was life and
it hardly existed elsewhere.  Ancient people must have been highly intuitive and would have trained them-
selves to be intuitive in a world that lacked computers and specialization.  Much of the ability to intuit lies
in the ability to process information logically.  This says point blank they wouldn't have accomplished great
feats through magic and religion but understanding and knowledge.  Why wouldn't they have made the
same observations that Shauberger and many others have made?  They lacked the materials and tech-
nology to build large dams or power plants but this doesn't mean they didn't have other knowledge and
the technology that can be derived from that technology.

The problem with our technology is that we don't comprehend it and have lost sight of even what it means
to be human.  We create stupendous waste and add that tothe GDP where it should be subtracted.  We
manage huge mountains of debt that are also added to the GDP which should be subtracted.  A massive
accident with numerous fatalities creates lots of money in the medical and  legal system and the nation grows
"wealthier".  Meanwhile most of the actual work being done is done by "illegal" aliens who can't even peti-
tion for a fair wage and have no vote.  Rather than examine the results of what we are doing we simply
add more red tape and more machinery.

Rather than human curiousity driving science it's now a search for new ways to kill more people at lower
cost.  Rather than doing what needs to be done or taking care of problems everything now has to be "man-
aged".  Huge problems fester and spread because it is more rewarding to more people to study them or
to paper them over than it is to just fix them.  We waste far more than we consume while most people live
in poverty or in quiet desparation.  This isn't caused by technology but by its misuse and our inability to
understand it.  If we doubled the net worth of the world today no one would be better off because they'd
just find a way to throw it away.

These were not problems the ancients faced.

[cladking]

DieChecker, on 10 February 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

It will likely be a decade till the "known" caves get all the resources to be excavated properly. And then probably another 25 years before it could possibly be opened to the public.

Unless you are one of those who advocates Bulldozer Archeology? Where you just tear through with hundreds of unskilled laborers and then open the site like a sideshow. Interpreting whatever you find with opinion. And displaying everything hodge podge randomly in a hastily constructed "museum". Because the situational relationship of any artifacts would be unknown in the rush to dig and find.

This job could have been done by now.  All they need to do is ascertain that the guano is
younger than the pyramids and get in there and jack hammer it out.  It doesn't cost millions
of dollars or entail decades of studies.  Just like figuring out how the pyramids were built
could be done by an intern over his summer vacation clearing these caves can be safely
accomplished with a couple of air compressors and a team of men with air hammers and
wheelbarrows in a few weeks.

There was no magic and no rocket science involved in building the pyramids so it will take
neither magic nor rocket science to reverse engineer them. This is the 21st century and no
excuse can exist for not having done any science at Giza in 30 years.

[Mangoze]

cladking, on 10 February 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

This job could have been done by now.  All they need to do is ascertain that the guano is
younger than the pyramids and get in there and jack hammer it out.  It doesn't cost millions
of dollars or entail decades of studies.  Just like figuring out how the pyramids were built
could be done by an intern over his summer vacation clearing these caves can be safely
accomplished with a couple of air compressors and a team of men with air hammers and
wheelbarrows in a few weeks.

There was no magic and no rocket science involved in building the pyramids so it will take
neither magic nor rocket science to reverse engineer them. This is the 21st century and no
excuse can exist for not having done any science at Giza in 30 years.

Can you produce your diagram - or even a working scale model - of your Giza Geyser Hypothesis in the same amount of time?

[DieChecker]

cladking, on 10 February 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

This job could have been done by now.  All they need to do is ascertain that the guano is younger than the pyramids and get in there and jack hammer it out.  It doesn't cost millions
of dollars or entail decades of studies.  Just like figuring out how the pyramids were built could be done by an intern over his summer vacation clearing these caves can be safely
accomplished with a couple of air compressors and a team of men with air hammers and wheelbarrows in a few weeks.

But it does involve decades of work. Archeologists work with brushes and trowls, not jackhammers. Using a jackhammer would be a very good example of bad archeology.

You deride the Science done in Egypt and yet suggest absolutely horrendous science to examine/destroy these caves. Science is not mining an area and sifting for anything that might be there. It is slowly exposing the sediments/guano/matrix and documenting anything found in situ, and then analysing the surrounding materials for information on age and context.

I thought after all these years you would recognize certain basics of archeology.

Quote

There was no magic and no rocket science involved in building the pyramids so it will take
neither magic nor rocket science to reverse engineer them. This is the 21st century and no
excuse can exist for not having done any science at Giza in 30 years.

I'm just going to ignore this....

My only comment... "RAMPS"!

[cladking]

Mangoze, on 11 February 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Can you produce your diagram - or even a working scale model - of your Giza Geyser Hypothesis in the same amount of time?

Touche'.

But, we need to keep some perspective here; the world isn't waiting on me and the future
doesn't hinge on what I do or don't do.  It might be a slightly "rude" for me to be dragging my
feet on this but it is inhuman not to display any curiousity or to fail to do basic science at Giza.

[cladking]

Quote

You deride the Science done in Egypt and yet suggest absolutely horrendous science to examine/destroy these caves. Science is not mining an area and sifting for anything that might be there. It is slowly exposing the sediments/guano/matrix and documenting anything found in situ, and then analysing the surrounding materials for information on age and context.

I have never derided the science being done at Giza.  I probably could if I tried but
I have not.  I deride them for not doing science at Giza.  Bat dropping are organic; they
contain carbon which means they can be carbon dated.  Bats have probably occupied these
caves for centuries several times since the pyramids were built in 2750BC.  Once these are
sampled and found to post-date the pyramids there is no reason to look for any artefacts in
them. Do we really care if a centurion dropped a coin at some specific place?  Who cares?
We are looking for something specific and  it will be under the feces.

Quote

I'm just going to ignore this....

My only comment... "RAMPS"!

"RAMPS" are neither magic nor rocket science so if this were it then the proof will be there.

Keep in mind though that if ramps were a workable theory it could make accurate predictions
and it has always failed at this and they have been debunked anyway so there is no significant
possibility of ever proving it was ramps.  Magic might be likelier.

[cladking]

DieChecker, on 10 February 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

It will likely be a decade till the "known" caves get all the resources to be excavated properly.

I'll bet they won't even sample it to see what's in there until someone figures there might be proof of ramps in it.

This might never happen.

If the world were anything like I thought it was 6 1/2 years ago there would be an outcry that they haven't sampled
it by now and made some sort of preliminary report.  How long is required to run a few simple tests?  How long is
required to release results?  They're just hoping people will forget so they can keep on doing what they do and
what they don't do.  They don't even have the proper forms to fill out to do anything but what they've always done.

It's pathetic.

[DieChecker]

cladking, on 11 February 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I have never derided the science being done at Giza.  I probably could if I tried but
I have not.  I deride them for not doing science at Giza.  Bat dropping are organic; they
contain carbon which means they can be carbon dated.  Bats have probably occupied these
caves for centuries several times since the pyramids were built in 2750BC.  Once these are
sampled and found to post-date the pyramids there is no reason to look for any artefacts in
them. Do we really care if a centurion dropped a coin at some specific place?  Who cares?
We are looking for something specific and  it will be under the feces.

Do we care? Yes. The time of the Pyramids is not the End-all-beat-all of world History. Lots of history came after that. Even if there is buried equipment from WW2, or Napoleon's campaign, I would like to see it conserved and recognized for what it is and where it was found.

That you are looking for something specific is Fine, but you should not bulldozer over the other 3500 years of history to make some stupid point that really is going to change little.

No Science (your opinion) = Bad Science (my interpretation). Because, science IS GOING ON in Egyptian dig sites, so the fact you say "No Science" simply means you don't agree with what they are doing, and thus, you are actually calling it "Bad Science". There can be no arguement to that logic.

Quote

"RAMPS" are neither magic nor rocket science so if this were it then the proof will be there.

Keep in mind though that if ramps were a workable theory it could make accurate predictions
and it has always failed at this and they have been debunked anyway so there is no significant
possibility of ever proving it was ramps.  Magic might be likelier.

Nope. Predictions are accurate. Math has shown it to be EASILY possible.

cladking, on 11 February 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'll bet they won't even sample it to see what's in there until someone figures there might be proof of ramps in it.

This might never happen.

If the world were anything like I thought it was 6 1/2 years ago there would be an outcry that they haven't sampled
it by now and made some sort of preliminary report.  How long is required to run a few simple tests?  How long is
required to release results?  They're just hoping people will forget so they can keep on doing what they do and
what they don't do.  They don't even have the proper forms to fill out to do anything but what they've always done.

It's pathetic.

Your Bias is showing. You've already made up your mind, so anything less then proof of your theory is to be discounted? Because no one is going after information that YOU would like to have, then there MUST be a conspiricy to maintain ignorance?

Come on Clad.....

Edited by DieChecker, 12 February 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[cladking]

DieChecker, on 12 February 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

Do we care? Yes. The time of the Pyramids is not the End-all-beat-all of world History. Lots of history came after that. Even if there is buried equipment from WW2, or Napoleon's campaign, I would like to see it conserved and recognized for what it is and where it was found.

That you are looking for something specific is Fine, but you should not bulldozer over the other 3500 years of history to make some stupid point that really is going to change little.

It's impossible to say what it will change until you do it.  What are they afraid of?

Quote

No Science (your opinion) = Bad Science (my interpretation). Because, science IS GOING ON in Egyptian dig sites, so the fact you say "No Science" simply means you don't agree with what they are doing, and thus, you are actually calling it "Bad Science". There can be no arguement to that logic

No!!  Science is about the systematic study of something.  It is not just looking for ramps.