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The Problem with Magick


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#31    Dying Seraph

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:41 PM

View PostBlueogre2, on 02 October 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Greetings Blue Star. When I said practicality I was basically talking about the fact that Magic can't cure cancer or make a person rich, ya know big stuff like that. As for negative spirits I mean those hostile beings that often show up when humans begin using magic. Thats why banishing rituals are needed.

My goodness how you negate the magic and potential of the mind so easily. :(
It is factual that if someone believes something helps them, then if it soothes the mind then it is healing. I can't stress enough the "placebo effect."
People surround themselves by loved ones when sick, play music they love when sick, etc. It may not remove a tumor but you underestimate the power these simple things hold and how they heal and have a magical effect on the mind.

Banishing rituals are not needed.
The problem is too many juveniles seeing scary movies or wanting to be cool delve into things they are not familiar with and stick there head too deep in the sand without fully contemplating the consequences of such on their psyche.

As Aggripa puts it very clearly, "If we would call any evil Spirit to the Circle, it first behoveth us to consider and to know his nature, to which planets it agreeth, and to what offices are distributted to him from the planet." -Agrippa from Occult Philosophia (4th book).

Hence the problem is too many people delve into things they are not familiar with and the only true demon they need protection from is themselves.

SINcerely,
:devil:

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#32    Dying Seraph

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:43 PM

View PostBlueogre2, on 02 October 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Yes, I know of what you speak, I have a slight interest in New Thought techniques as well. But, what I am more interested in is power to change reality not just my perception

That's just it. YOU can change your reality! Not just perception. If you don't like a situation in reality YOU can stay in it or do something about it. YOU seem to hope charms and spells will resolve it. The charms and spells are TOOLS to enhance and help assist the individual NOT resolve it. I don't mean to be insulting or offensive if I'm coming off as such. THis subject gets me passionate because people tend to have gross missunderstandings of magic IMO.

SINcerely,
:devil:

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#33    Mr Walker

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:48 PM

View PostBlueogre2, on 02 October 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Greetings Mr. Walker. I see you a have a unique point of view on magic, would you care to expand upon it a little bit more. For example what system do you follow Chaos? Wicca, Ceremonial or have you created your own special path?

As with religion and spirituality, i am an Inclusionist. I have two basic principles, "suck it and see", and "do no harm".
In other words, if it works, go for it, but only use it for good/constructive or at least neutral purposes. I combine this with a value that i am no more important than anyone else in the world, and thus I have no right to seek advantage which harms any other.  Then i chose to do all i can to improve myself and, through me, humanity.  I dont know enough about the various forms of magic to know if i fit under any category, but  having read and studied about 7 various forms from memory, i fit under a number of them  Wiccan or nature magic might be considered the closest but there is a strong element of modern chaos magic in it as well. Not tha t i seek these paths, just that my path has some resemblance to these and other magic forms Magic is largely a product o f the mind, discipline and learning, but also a part of the natural world.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#34    Blueogre2

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:52 PM

View PostDying Seraph, on 02 October 2012 - 10:43 PM, said:

That's just it. YOU can change your reality! Not just perception. If you don't like a situation in reality YOU can stay in it or do something about it. YOU seem to hope charms and spells will resolve it. The charms and spells are TOOLS to enhance and help assist the individual NOT resolve it. I don't mean to be insulting or offensive if I'm coming off as such. THis subject gets me passionate because people tend to have gross missunderstandings of magic IMO.

SINcerely,
:devil:
Well yes, I know exactly what your talking about. I do control my reality. But what about making miracles happen? If a person gets cancer or aids no matter of postive thinking is going to change that fact, it will make them feel better and maybe help the medicine work better but thats about it. What I am talking about is supernatural power that can redifine the world. Perhaps I am being childish for thinking so, but I feel like humanity has a great destiny ahead of it, one where the current problems and struggles will be seen as trivial at best. Sorry if I upset you with my views


#35    Dying Seraph

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:08 PM

View PostBlueogre2, on 02 October 2012 - 10:52 PM, said:

Well yes, I know exactly what your talking about. I do control my reality. But what about making miracles happen? If a person gets cancer or aids no matter of postive thinking is going to change that fact, it will make them feel better and maybe help the medicine work better but thats about it. What I am talking about is supernatural power that can redifine the world. Perhaps I am being childish for thinking so, but I feel like humanity has a great destiny ahead of it, one where the current problems and struggles will be seen as trivial at best. Sorry if I upset you with my views

Dr's treat! Even they can't cure everything and do their best as is their creed to "treat" patients. Thus there are forms of magical "treatment" as well (ie. "Mindfulness practice" or "Somatic experienceing" or "eye movement desensitization" or "guided imagery" etc.-All are considered "new agey-"magical healing" yet have proven over time to have benefits). If you are expecting a cure...hate to break it to you countless of people die every day even at the hands of capable Dr.'s.

In regards to humanity having a great destiny ahead...haven't you heard we're gonna die come 2012. <_< :lol: :rolleyes:
You didn't offend me. I worried I did so you as this subject gets me going and far too many people expect irrationalism to come from such a subject but there is a lot to it. For magic to have persisted as long as it has...that while it's had its skeptics, the mystique of magic has shown if anything it's adversity.

SINcerely,
:devil:

"The angel of self-deceit is camped in the souls of the "Righteous"--The eternal flame of power through joy dwellith within the flesh of the Satanist!"--Anton Szandor LaVey

"Tis' true my form is something odd but blaming me is blaming God. Could I create myself anew, I would not fail in pleasing you. If I could reach from pole to pole or grasp the ocean with a span, I would be measured by the soul. The mind's the standard of the man."--Isaac Watts

#36    Blueogre2

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostDying Seraph, on 02 October 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Dr's treat! Even they can't cure everything and do their best as is their creed to "treat" patients. Thus there are forms of magical "treatment" as well (ie. "Mindfulness practice" or "Somatic experienceing" or "eye movement desensitization" or "guided imagery" etc.-All are considered "new agey-"magical healing" yet have proven over time to have benefits). If you are expecting a cure...hate to break it to you countless of people die every day even at the hands of capable Dr.'s.

In regards to humanity having a great destiny ahead...haven't you heard we're gonna die come 2012. <_< :lol: :rolleyes:
You didn't offend me. I worried I did so you as this subject gets me going and far too many people expect irrationalism to come from such a subject but there is a lot to it. For magic to have persisted as long as it has...that while it's had its skeptics, the mystique of magic has shown if anything it's adversity.

SINcerely,
:devil:
I suppose you have a point. But I would still prefer magical power with objective results that can be measured


#37    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:46 PM

The efficacy of magick ,always has to do with the practitioner .
It is akin to prayer or chanting.

If no one has noticed ,most religions burn incense and light candles .Most have prayer or chants .
Most have some sort of ritual ,and blessed foods are part of some of this,depending .
As can fasting or annointing oneself for said ritual .
What is it people think we do,that is any different .
Given ,paganism is sooo much older than organized religions ,*where* does everyone think all those rituals were copied from ?
DUH

And I got more involved in it,because of the nasty entities . I had to learn how to get rid of them .


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#38    White Crane Feather

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:22 AM

View PostBlueogre2, on 02 October 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

Yes, I know of what you speak, I have a slight interest in New Thought techniques as well. But, what I am more interested in is power to change reality not just my perception
Thought.... Plannning.... Action

You can change any reality you want, and it's far less complicated.

Magic, prayer, meditation ritual is for you and your mind to achieve the right place to be successful in the above three for your desired out come.

You can use this for and against others if their minds allow it. A powerful elaborate blessing or curse can work wonders on a believer. But is utterly lost on the non or apathetic. Just keep in mind there are those that say they don't believe but don't and those that say they do but don't.  This is the power of real magic.

Edited by Seeker79, 07 October 2012 - 03:28 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#39    Sigil175

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:28 AM

Hello, One should keep in mind that the magic arts have different meanings to people of different path's.  For some it is a connection to nature itself,a connection to working with one's own element i.e. earth,fire,water,air,or a deity/deities, there are many reason as to why people work with such a art as magic.  Having worked with the arts of magic for as long as i have there is no doubt that it does indeed work and can be work with in many different form's.  People tend to forget quickly that what they believe is simply what they believe, it effects only that person and his/her viewpoint.


#40    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 07:52 AM

View PostBlueogre2, on 02 October 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

Greetings Blue Star. When I said practicality I was basically talking about the fact that Magic can't cure cancer or make a person rich, ya know big stuff like that. As for negative spirits I mean those hostile beings that often show up when humans begin using magic. Thats why banishing rituals are needed.

For someone who doesn't believe in magick,you sure know enough about it ,and plenty of people have gotten rich using it. Depends upon karma. Just ask Led Zeppelin and Desi Arnaz .
It can cure,just as prayer can cure. Many people believe in prayer healing miracle . Same principle .

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#41    AwakenAscension

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:22 AM

I have always believed that "Magick Ritual" evolved early in man's understanding that their mode of being had effects on how their reality and situations played out. But ofcourse they weren't using the scientific models that we are, today. Magick Ritual is like a tool to harness the belief and emotion of bringing your intended outcome into manifestation and also as an anchor in the belief that it WILL happen ("BECAUSE I did This")
Every thought, feeling and belief you express has an effect on your world. You perform miracles every day. When you get too attached to the outcome, it becomes too serious, and the fluid like pleasure of the result "BECOMING" is instead replaced by a fear that it will not. If that area in your life becomes as such, you should step back from it a while. Lower it's importance.
The very particles in your brain that shape and make up your image of the world, are entangled with their counterparts on the "outside". This IS magick. Try and make your entire daily routine your Magick Ritual and let your result be a fluid, moving, "becomING", not a solid result that "happens and stops right there".

Once the threads of fate become entangled,
they can never be undone.
So as we create our destiny, from our own angle,
we stretch and pull this web, as one.

#42    Rock-Chick

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 01:59 PM

I wouldn't call Magick useless. That's a pretty broad generalization to make considering it's such a vast subject.

Edited by Rock-Chick, 13 November 2012 - 01:59 PM.


#43    Ryu

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 04:35 PM

Lighting candles and incense may be relaxing but it won't do anything. Only the person doing real and physical actions can achieve something that resembles results.

Want to find a new car? Pore over the ads. Need to find a job. Search the ads, consult friends, etc. Want to attract the attentions of someone you've had your eye on? Go talk to them. Want to prevent hunger? Donate food to a food shelf.
Simple, isn't it? And you didn't need to chant words or pray to yet another invented deity..you did it yourself and what's better is that you can give yourself the credit rather than a purple candle and some rocks.


#44    Quaentum

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:07 PM

View PostBlue Star, on 30 September 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

I really can't be bothered with you.
If you had bothered to read what I had written, you would have noted that I am in the process of research and exploration into these very things but no.

Saying that you are in the majority (Pretty much the entire world) is foolish, as really you don't come across to me as someone qualified to say so.
Even if you could prove that you were in the majority and that majority believed magic isn't real..... That, quite honestly wouldn't mean anything to me. Not when you consider such things as the long held belief that the world was flat or that.... Oh really, don't you get bored of being so bland?
There's a lot more people on this world than you and your narrow mindedness seems to be aware of.
I really can't be @rsed.

Unfortunately, there is nothing to back your claims so many will regard them as other claims that proved to be false.  

Some years ago, I knew someone who claimed that he could use magic and make things appear, move etc...  He asked me to set up a camera (pre-digital model) to record it.  I did, showed him how to work it, then left him for about half an hour.  We viewed the tape after he was done and on the tape he exclaimed see, I have levitated a ball using magic.  Unfortunately, the tape showed no levitation.  He got angry and said I had done something to the tape or the camera, but he bought the tape and used the camera himself and we viewed the footage while it was still in the camera.

I believe that his desire to do magic was so great that his mind obliged him with for lack of a better term a daydream where he saw it happen even though it evidently didn't.

AA LOGIC
They didn't use thousands of workers - oops forgot about the work camps
There's no evidence for ramps - You found one?...Bummer
Well we know they didn't use ancient tools to cut and shape the stones - Chisel marks?  Craps
I still say aliens built them!

#45    Cybele

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 05:42 PM

View PostBlueogre2, on 29 September 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Greetings, forum. It has come to my attention that Magick, is a rather useless thing. I am not saying that it does not work. I do believe that it does but the effects seem to be rather unpredictable and limited in it's practicality.

Unpredictable and limited is what would expect when results are due to chance. A lot of the people who are engaged in these sorts of practices choose not to consider the role of chance or bias in their workings. They will say "doubt is ruining your results". Even if their results are mostly negative or null, when one seemingly favorable outcome arises, they will jump to attribute it to their workings. And I believe more than a few people who write about these things are flat out lying, if not to others, then to themselves.

The only utility I've found in areas of the occult stem from self-knowledge. It can help you get better in-tune with your subconscious or unconscious minds, or whatever you want to call it, for better or for worse.

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