Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 3 votes

Ancient Aliens

aliens ancient

  • Please log in to reply
1867 replies to this topic

#586    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,618 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:12 PM

View PostWoIverine, on 21 November 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

Some of the episodes are interesting, far fetched, but entertaining.

So is "Lost in Space"....

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#587    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,943 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:58 PM

"Metaphysics" is the means used to gather knowledge.  My definitions require that the
process actually works and that the knowledge is actually useful.  For instance I might
"know" that water runs up hill under specific conditions but if this can't be shown and the
"theory" can't make any predictions then it is most probably wrong and the metaphysic
that generated the knowledge might not be true metaphysics.  Any theory that can't make
accurate predictions is useless even if it were correct.  There is no point to research of
any type if it can't lead to accurate predictions.

This is part of what's wrong today that causes so much trouble; flawed metaphysics and
incorrect assumptions.

View Postseeder, on 21 November 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

Whoa there doggy! Lets see, you spend all your days running after wild chickens and pigs who dont want to be caught....day after day you chuck your spears and shoot your bows, and sometimes you get lucky,....and sometimes...you go hungry...

so, you start thinking how to make it easy... BINGO! A light-bulb goes on!  And you think... Fark all that running about and sweating, lets just CATCH the animals and build fences round them, so they cant escape, and we can eat when we like without doing much... and so they did, and the fowl laid eggs, and the eggs not eaten became chicks, and soon become a size to eat.... and the boars too had young...and you realise...that farming is the way to go... catch your wild goat, and keep it fenced... you can drink its milk, see it bare young... eat it when its old....

No running about needed. So...its not a huge stretch is it, to think that food was planted....instead of foraged.. and communities came together, as there has always been safety in numbers.... everyone helps out, in return, everyone eats...

Lol.

You certainly have plenty of good company in this belief.  It is the prevailing belief
among most "scientists" today.  We also ascribe beaver's ability to build dams to trial
and error and instinct.  Who wants to believe termites sat around planning their first
city or that bees had drafting bees to design the first honeycomb?  It's just so much
easier to believe modern man wirth his technology is the pinnaclke of creation and
our ancestors and nature all got to where they were by trial and error.

I seriously doubt it.  I often say that if roicket scxience were so complicated then no
one could do it.  But there's another perspective; rocket science is no more complicated
then building an engine with more thrust then its weight.  Brain surgery is no more com-
plicated than drilling a hole in the head without killing the patient.  All of modern know-
ledge and technology were built up a little tiny piece at a time.  Probably agriculture was
much the same but you might be underestimating the amount of agricultural knowledge
required to do even the most basic farming.  That farming arose rather suddenly is beside
the point that it was extensive and required extensive learning. Building cities required ex-
tensive learning as well and these people didn't acquire their knowledge through trial and
error or instinct.  They needed and must have had a framework, a metaphysic, for gather-
ing knowledge.

I laughed because your post reminded me of a farmer who decided it would be a good
idea and highly profitable to start raising venison for sale.  Apparently the buck he decided
to corale didn't agree even in the least.  In the process of not catching the deer he was in-
jured repeatedly including various broken bones.  His description of the adventure is just
hilarious.  Squab is quite a delcasy and commands hifgh prices yet no one is raising pid-
geons for sale.  One can talk about cultivating a plant or animal but actually doing it can
be impossible even with modernb technology.  Trying raising octopus, for example.  It may
be done a little bit now days but for the mainpart, it just doesn't work.  

How would the ancients have known the few things that could be domesticated?  Actually
there might be some simple answers but like everything before 2000 BC it has been utterly
lost to us.  All we have are mysteries.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#588    Oniomancer

Oniomancer

    Soulless Minion Of Orthodoxy

  • Member
  • 3,266 posts
  • Joined:20 Jul 2008
  • Gender:Male

  • Question everything

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:20 PM

View Postcladking, on 21 November 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

Squab is quite a delcasy and commands hifgh prices yet no one is raising pid-
geons for sale.  

http://www.palmettop....com/squab.html

"Apparently the Lemurians drank Schlitz." - Intrepid "Real People" reporter on finding a mysterious artifact in the depths of Mount Shasta.

#589    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,943 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 21 November 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Not illogical at all as one can take a scientific approach to the study and application of a process while still applying a religions rationale to the ultimate cause of said process, however illogical that itself may be.

There's nothing inherently illogical about belief even when that belief is in a deity.  Many
people would argus that accepting this without metaphysical evidence is "logical" and I
can't entirely disagree with them.  But belief can't lead to knowledge and only to support
for that belief.  This is just natural.

Quote

This is in fact how science such as it was operated up until at least the mid-19th century, with the majority of the scientific community framing their inquiries within the context of biblical canon.

There's no reason that science can't be executed by someone who has beliefs.  He must
practice detachment from that belief but any fact can be expressed within any belief system.

Quote

A Haitian bokor for instance may be as meticulous as a pharmacist in the preparation of a zombie powder yet still privately attribute the ultimate causative agency to a the action of a Loa. One sees this quite commonly in tribal cultures, where any given substance is viewed as having a "spirit" or "mana" at work behind it separate from but dependent on it's correct preparation. This is no different from those scientists today who manage to reconcile their science with their respective faiths, especially where those faiths are non-Christian.

Voodoo isn't repeatable.  It doesn't make predictions.  Until it can be demonstrated it is a
belief system.

Quote

When we examine any of the cultures most often associated with AA conjectures, in every case they commonly exhibit practices not easily interpretable in a practical, secular sense. Practices that can only be made to make sense in a religious context, such as providing for the dead, ritual sacrifice and the making and recording of offerings and prayers,  with often very unambiguous intent. Try as you might, you can neither pretend they don't exist nor divorce them from the intellects that conceived both them and the technologies through which they were realized.

That we interpret all this as religious in nature may be no more than simple "sample
error".  The fact is that most of what we know about all ancient cultures , and especially
those from before 2000 BC is derived from tombs and burial practices.

I don't doubt that ritual was of great importance to ancient people but that the basis of
this ritual is open to interpretation of very little evidence most of which has been derived
from tombs.  I believe the interpretation is wrong.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#590    stereologist

stereologist

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,373 posts
  • Joined:08 Sep 2009
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:28 PM

Following up on posts by Skithia and seeder it should be mentioned that there are transitional stages in which hunter/gatherers modify their environment to make their lives easier. They burn areas after hunting to keep back forests. They plant easy to climb trees next to spiky fruit trees to have an easier time collecting fruit.

Stating that it requires a huge amount of knowledge and learning to invent agriculture is not correct. It can be done in stages and there are going to be those transitional stages such as using trapped animals as bait to lure in other animals. Baiting is not agriculture but it sure can lead to it.


#591    stereologist

stereologist

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,373 posts
  • Joined:08 Sep 2009
  • Gender:Male

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:34 PM

Quote

but any fact can be expressed within any belief system.
That's a joke. How can a 4.6By old solar system be expressed in a YEC belief system? It can't. That's the problem. Facts have to be dissed when they conflict with your belief system. Some people can't handle the truth. They go crazy over the big bang theory because it conflicts with their notions of eternal reincarnation. How can the phases of Venus be expressed in a geocentric belief system? They can't.

Quote

Voodoo isn't repeatable.  It doesn't make predictions.  Until it can be demonstrated it is a
belief system.
"You been hexed. You gonna die." Sounds like a prediction to me.


#592    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,943 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:45 PM

View PostOniomancer, on 21 November 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:



Here's a place selling it for about $33 / lb.

http://buyexoticmeat...hsq10to12o.html

I imagine it must be difficult to raise if such a high price doesn't entice more people to produce it.

A pound of squab by the by is about 6 bites.

Edited by cladking, 21 November 2013 - 09:50 PM.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#593    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,943 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:49 PM

View Poststereologist, on 21 November 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

That's a joke. How can a 4.6By old solar system be expressed in a YEC belief system? It can't. That's the problem. Facts have to be dissed when they conflict with your belief system.

God created the universe billions of years ago and created the earth 6200 years ago in seven days.

Obviously, conflicting tenets can't be held by sane people.  The erath can't be both billions of years old and 6200 years.

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#594    seeder

seeder

    Nut Cracker

  • Member
  • 10,190 posts
  • Joined:21 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK. There if you need me

  • Never forget that only the weak fish swim with the stream, and a lie travels half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:54 PM

View Postcladking, on 21 November 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

God created the universe billions of years ago and created the earth 6200 years ago in seven days.

Obviously, conflicting tenets can't be held by sane people.  The erath can't be both billions of years old and 6200 years.

fossils pre-date religion..by a massive margin...  :tu:    FACT!

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored
It's not the depth of the rabbit hole that bugs me... It's all the rabbit poop you stumble over on your way down...
“It's easier to fool people - than to convince them that they have been fooled.”  Mark Twain

"The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it"

#595    scowl

scowl

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 4,111 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:59 PM

View Postcladking, on 21 November 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

It required a huge amount of knowledge and learning to invent agriculture and cities.  To suppose
this knowledge arose without a formal metaphysics is simply ludicrous.

OK tell me exactly what formal metaphysical knowledge I would need to stick seeds into the ground, watch them grow, then harvest the crops they produce. I grew peas in my backyard this summer so consider me an expert.

Quote

You are assuming that science
must be based on observation and experiment because this is the only science we know.  There might
be numerous scences that can exist but the most obvious is based on observation and logic.

That's the one that works. The other ones don't work. That's why we no longer use them and that's why we don't call them "science" any more.

Like I said, a little reading on Wikipedia will help you learn what "science" and "metaphysics" mean and how to use the terms correctly.


#596    Harte

Harte

    Supremely Educated Knower of Everything in Existence

  • Member
  • 9,112 posts
  • Joined:06 Aug 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Memphis

  • Skeptic

Posted 21 November 2013 - 09:59 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 21 November 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

So is "Lost in Space"....
The old TV show (not the movie) was quite a bit more colorful as well.

Harte

I've consulted all the sages I could find in yellow pages but there aren't many of them. - The Alan Parsons Project
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do so. - Bertrand Russell
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong. - Thomas Jefferson
Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#597    scowl

scowl

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 4,111 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 21 November 2013 - 10:07 PM

View Postcladking, on 21 November 2013 - 08:58 PM, said:

"Metaphysics" is the means used to gather knowledge.

Wrong. Metaphysics is a philosophy used to describe and explain the universe. It does not practice gathering knowledge in any way, nor does it test any of the theories the practice generates. Those two shortcomings are why it doesn't work and is now mostly a form of entertainment.

Sorry, you can't make up your own definitions for words.


#598    cladking

cladking

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 7,943 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2006
  • Location:Indiana

  • Tempus fugit.

Posted 22 November 2013 - 12:58 AM

View Postscowl, on 21 November 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

OK tell me exactly what formal metaphysical knowledge I would need to stick seeds into the ground, watch them grow, then harvest the crops they produce. I grew peas in my backyard this summer so consider me an expert.

You have to understand what a seed is, how plants grow, that they propogate only their kind,
that it is good for food, that they need sun and water, that they grow best in specific soils that
vary from species to species, that you can domesticate it, that it won't be stolen by lazy people
or animals, etc,  etc, etc.

Quote

That's the one that works. The other ones don't work. That's why we no longer use them and that's why we don't call them "science" any more.

Like I said, a little reading on Wikipedia will help you learn what "science" and "metaphysics" mean and how to use the terms correctly.

Prove it!  Use the scientific method to prove that experimental science is the only science
that works and the only one that has ever been on the earth.  This should be easy since it's
basic to science.

The world seems simple only because our ancestors made it simple.  Science seems com-
plicated only because people don't understand its metaphysics.

View Postseeder, on 21 November 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

fossils pre-date religion..by a massive margin...  :tu: FACT!

God created old fossils.  Duh!

Men fear the pyramid, time fears man.

#599    third_eye

third_eye

    _ M Ġ ń Ř Ī Ş_

  • Member
  • 7,936 posts
  • Joined:06 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Malaysia

  • "Legio nomen mihi est, quia multi sumus"

    God has no religion ~ Mahatma Gandhi

Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:01 AM

UM is very well endowed with the metaphysically learned and unlearned ... wonder when it'll go dot ORG or dot EDU ...

~

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer

~


#600    Piney

Piney

    Educated Redskin

  • Member
  • 2,743 posts
  • Joined:22 Jul 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Hopewell, New Jersey

  • Redbonz Stumpjumper from the swamps of Shamong

Posted 22 November 2013 - 01:26 AM

View Poststereologist, on 21 November 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:


Stating that it requires a huge amount of knowledge and learning to invent agriculture is not correct. It can be done in stages and there are going to be those transitional stages such as using trapped animals as bait to lure in other animals. Baiting is not agriculture but it sure can lead to it.

The Eastern Agricultural Complex started in the North Central U.S when the Glacier Kame Culture moved into the Ohio Valley and saw that maygrass, amaranth,knotweed and tobacco grow where you drop the seeds. Then they grow better if you drop the seeds in mud, and they didn't even have pottery.
Signs of basic horticulture date all the way back to the Early Archaic in Florida. But people started purposely planting the stuff because they had to. Not because they wanted to. Population growth limited the wild supply and they had to make sure there was enough. Nobody wants to work when it grows wild. But when there isn't enough to go around, that's a different story. The Knowledge was there. Just not the need.

Token Nanticoke
http://woodlandindia...orums/index.php
It takes a certain amount of sophistication to live primitive. Stupid people usually don't survive...............

"There aren't any Indians in New Jersey. Just some inbred ******* that live in the woods."

-Donald Trump





Also tagged with aliens, ancient

2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users