Lionel Posted February 18, 2004 #1 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Aristotle and Descartes would be pleased to hear Dr. William Hatcher proclaim that even God Himself cannot defy logic. Hatcher, who is a self-proclaimed Platonist philosopher with a Ph.D. in mathematics, delivered a logical proof for the existence of God before an over-filled auditorium in Warren Hall last night. The event marked the first in what the Baha'i student organization hopes will be a series of discussions about religion, science, and philosophy, and how the three topics interrelate. "We just felt like there wasn't enough discussion on campus" about these matters, said Natasha Bruss, BC '05, President of the Baha'i club at Columbia. Baha'i is based on the teachings of the prophet Baha'u'llah, who preached that all religions are one, religion is progressive, and that faith is not meant to be dogmatic.Hatcher, a Baha'i adherent himself, is similarly uninterested in dogma. His discussion explored the existence of God and carefully shied away from any of its implications. Rather, he stated, "we have to transform the religious discourse from a discourse about belief to a discourse about truth." To that end, Hatcher began his discussion with an introduction to Aristotlean, or attributional, logic and its shortcomings. Aristotle purported to have proven the existence of God, but he did so based on a kind of logic that deals with properties of objects, an approach, he argued, that's less than satisfying considering that God's attributes cannot be perceived. Aristotle insisted that there must be a first cause, namely God, in order to avoid the logical inconsistencies of an infinite regress of causes for the universe. View: Full Article | Source: Columbia Spectator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nxt2Hvn Posted February 18, 2004 #2 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Oh.. the temptations you throw out there Lionel!! LOL ************** The event marked the first in what the Baha'i student organization hopes will be a series of discussions about religion, science, and philosophy, and how the three topics interrelate. "We just felt like there wasn't enough discussion on campus" about these matters If they are looking for discussions about these topics... all they have to do is visit this site.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Posted February 18, 2004 Author #3 Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) Oh.. the temptations you throw out there Lionel!! LOL I expected you to reply in this thread Edited February 18, 2004 by Lionel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychicPenguin Posted February 18, 2004 #4 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Nothing new, really. The article is sponsored by Ba'hai faith, and they have a very broad definition of God, which includes all religions, even atheism. By defining God simply as the primary cause that was uncaused.. off coure it is very logical that it exists. As I said in another thread, another possibility is a system of infinite number of univereses that is infinitely old. Nxt2Hvn.. good job for resisting the temptation here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted February 18, 2004 #5 Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) he's done a philosophical proof on nothing more than an unknown cause which for lack of better word they've called god *edit* doh, psychic beat me to it:( Edited February 18, 2004 by bathory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethius Posted February 18, 2004 #6 Share Posted February 18, 2004 a religious person says he proves god exists... what a suprise... he doesnt know how to explain something happened so he says god did it... wasnt this the case so long ago... he thinks this is new??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X~File_Agent Posted February 18, 2004 #7 Share Posted February 18, 2004 *No playing the role of a cop* C'mon folks, let's keep moving there's nothing to see here that you haven't seen before. Nxt2Hvn - You're right they should of visited this website, if they wanted to get into a discussion. I'd like to see how they would do with folks like Seraphina, Bathory, Talon, FluffyBunny, Myself, etc.... Hmmm... Let's invite them to a discussion , I bet we won't go past three posts before it gets locked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nxt2Hvn Posted February 18, 2004 #8 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I'd like to see how they would do with folks like Seraphina, Bathory, Talon, FluffyBunny, Myself, etc.... Wow... what a group!! Maybe you guys should come up with a name for your group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X~File_Agent Posted February 18, 2004 #9 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Well, I believe everyone I metioned are all atheists. If they aren't I apologize for mentioning your name, I was writing off the top of my head, and who I see post the most on these topics. Hmmm.... a group name Masters of Logic Evolution Raiders Ok, I'm pushing it I better stop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychicPenguin Posted February 18, 2004 #10 Share Posted February 18, 2004 I wonder if any of them is W. Patterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenderX Posted February 18, 2004 #11 Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) A more probable solution to for exampel the creation of human is that a meteor hit earth during an ice age, and that this meteor had micro-organisms on it which again evolve through time (and by this statement I mean that god didn't do it and that the bible is wrong about god creating man and woman),, (might be wrong,,since I'm new to this forum,,) Write me up in the group of atheists Edited February 18, 2004 by DefenderX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X~File_Agent Posted February 18, 2004 #12 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Welcome to UM DefenderX. Your theory is valid, and it's something that is still in question as to how we got here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted February 18, 2004 #13 Share Posted February 18, 2004 A more probable solution to for exampel the creation of human is that a meteor hit earth during an ice age, and that this meteor had micro-organisms on it which again evolve through time (and by this statement I mean that god didn't do it and that the bible is wrong about god creating man and woman),, (might be wrong,,since I'm new to this forum,,) Write me up in the group of atheists Yes, that is quite brilliant. However, and I'm not defending any theory here mind you, how did the "micro organisms" get on the meteor in the first place? And why is "life having begun on a meteor" more plausible than "life having begun on a planet", namely earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethius Posted February 18, 2004 #14 Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) However, and I'm not defending any theory here mind you, how did the "micro organisms" get on the meteor in the first place? i can only guess as it would be a very unique chemical reaction between 2 or more atoms (or whatever) that may or may not have happened here on earth.... I myself think that his happened on Mars, and those "live" atoms got blasted onto our planet. i feel it started there (on Mars) simply because i've read that Mars was once in our orbit, and that they have found bacteria in meteors that have came from Mars a long long time ago... Edited February 18, 2004 by Nethius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychicPenguin Posted February 18, 2004 #15 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Wherever life started, I'm pretty sure that humans are not evolved from bacterias in a meteor that hit the earth during the ice age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted February 18, 2004 #16 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Wow... what a group!! Maybe you guys should come up with a name for your group! Seraphina, Bathory, Talon, FluffyBunny, X~File_Agent & DefenderX better known as; The 6 Horsemen of the Apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted February 18, 2004 #17 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i feel it started there (on Mars) simply because i've read that Mars was once in our orbit, and that they have found bacteria in meteors that have came from Mars a long long time ago... Of course it could just as easily be that life developed on the earth once it had entered that particular orbit, and as far as I know the analysis of the mars meteorite has so far yeilded inconclusive results. That doesn't mean to say that life didn't hitch a ride to the Earth on a meteorite, just that so far we don't have any conclusive evidence to support that theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nxt2Hvn Posted February 18, 2004 #18 Share Posted February 18, 2004 [ Seraphina, Bathory, Talon, FluffyBunny, X~File_Agent & DefenderX better known as; The 6 Horsemen of the Apocalypse That fits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted February 18, 2004 #19 Share Posted February 18, 2004 (edited) Indeed, but whether the name of its fourth member really fits in is another question. Edited February 19, 2004 by Magikman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X~File_Agent Posted February 18, 2004 #20 Share Posted February 18, 2004 The 6 Horsemen of the Apocalypse That was so good, I had to change my avatar <--------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted February 18, 2004 #21 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Ride on Brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted February 18, 2004 #22 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i feel it started there (on Mars) simply because i've read that Mars was once in our orbit, and that they have found bacteria in meteors that have came from Mars a long long time ago... That didn't really answer my question, being: ...why is "life having begun on a meteor" more plausible than "life having begun on a planet", namely earth? You can replace "meteor" by "Mars" , "Jupiter" , "xPZwOrp?" or "Venuvian Dune Buggy" if you like, the essence will remain the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted February 18, 2004 #23 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Wow... what a group!! Maybe you guys should come up with a name for your group! Seraphina, Bathory, Talon, FluffyBunny, X~File_Agent & DefenderX better known as; The 6 Horsemen of the Apocalypse I don't think Sera is really a groupie kinda person... (And I mean that in the most non-doing-sexual-favours-to-rockbands kind of way...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethius Posted February 18, 2004 #24 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Of course it could just as easily be that life developed on the earth once it had entered that particular orbit, and as far as I know the analysis of the mars meteorite has so far yeilded inconclusive results. agreed! and depending on where you go about that meteor, some say conclusive, others say not... i doubt we'll ever find out for sure! but yea we may have developed her, or maybe from mars, or maybe from some other galaxy, or maybe there is a god.. who knows? i can only give my personal option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nethius Posted February 18, 2004 #25 Share Posted February 18, 2004 i feel it started there (on Mars) simply because i've read that Mars was once in our orbit, and that they have found bacteria in meteors that have came from Mars a long long time ago... That didn't really answer my question, being: ...why is "life having begun on a meteor" more plausible than "life having begun on a planet", namely earth? You can replace "meteor" by "Mars" , "Jupiter" , "xPZwOrp?" or "Venuvian Dune Buggy" if you like, the essence will remain the same. i was replying to this part of your question... However, and I'm not defending any theory here mind you, how did the "micro organisms" get on the meteor in the first place? but to answer you're other question, it really isn't... it's just they way i think it happened... maybe i should start looking at time periods a little closer to help me determin what way i should be thinking! but someone mentioned they didnt think it wouldnt happen through an ice age... well, if bacteria did come from another planet, i'm sure travelling through space is a lot tougher then making it throgh an ice age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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