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Fluoridegate


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#151    Cybele

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 03:46 AM

View Postregeneratia, on 25 February 2011 - 11:35 PM, said:

It does support my opinions, or I wouldn't have posted it. You have to think past the words. There is a unaccounted for increase in gum disease. WHY?
You're seeing these statistics as evidence of the dangers of fluoride because you want to, not because it is implicated in any way in the research.

As you will note, your article, along with the National Institutes of Health website, list cardiovascular disease and diabetes as factors associated with periodontal disease. Can you guess what health problem has both been exploding in recent decades and is known to cause c.v. disease and diabetes? How about obesity?  It seems logical to me that that might be a major contributing factor.


http://www.nature.co...l/4813397a.html

http://www.nature.co...l/4812738a.html

http://jdr.sagepub.c...t/86/5/400.full

http://www.joponline...archHistoryKey=

http://www.joponline...archHistoryKey=

http://jdr.sagepub.c.../2/199.abstract

http://www.idjonline...5&journal_id=41

(Sorry about the improper citations)

View Postregeneratia, on 25 February 2011 - 11:35 PM, said:

Thank you for your humble opinion. I respect it. But I do not agree with it. My motto, as always, is "question authority" and "question, question, question". In all disney movies, in songs all over the different genres, everywhere I hear "Things are not what they seem." I believe this whole-heartedly. Never take things at face value. Never.
As someone else has mentioned, it is strange that you would choose fluoride to speak out against. Why not sodium or trans fats?

Edited by Cybele, 26 February 2011 - 04:18 AM.

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#152    danielost

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 03:55 AM

i cant believe that someone on here tried to compare a vitamin to a poison,.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
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#153    ShadowSot

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:01 AM

View Postdanielost, on 26 February 2011 - 03:55 AM, said:

i cant believe that someone on here tried to compare a vitamin to a poison,.

I can. Different chemicals and compounds are utilized by the body that common sense would label as poison or non food.
Like iron or chlorine, for example.

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#154    danielost

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:17 AM

View PostShadowSot, on 26 February 2011 - 04:01 AM, said:

I can. Different chemicals and compounds are utilized by the body that common sense would label as poison or non food.
Like iron or chlorine, for example.
iron is used to transport 02.  chlorine is only used in the form of salt(as far as i know), which helps to move electricity around the body.  flouride is just a poison, which we use to strength teeth.  i dont believe our stomachs and intestines are designed to process it, which is what we are demanding they do when we put it in water.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#155    Copasetic

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 04:44 PM

View Postdanielost, on 26 February 2011 - 04:17 AM, said:

iron is used to transport 02.  chlorine is only used in the form of salt(as far as i know), which helps to move electricity around the body.  flouride is just a poison, which we use to strength teeth.  i dont believe our stomachs and intestines are designed to process it, which is what we are demanding they do when we put it in water.


I understand why so many people are leaving GP/FP these days because of troubling patients and encounters. Between non-compliance, lack of discipline and patients who think they know everything about medicine (when in fact they know so little, they can't even tell how little they know), is it little wonder those specialties are rapidly being depleted.  

Let's just do it like a list, shall we?


1. You'll note, had you actually dawned your comprehension skills, that what I was comparing in my post was the implementation of public health measures. Let me relay that again; puhb-lik helth mezh-ers.

As hard as it maybe to imagine for you, there is a whole working group of people who's job is the concern over public health. Why? Because PH is important to the functioning of society. For an interesting case study of how an "unhealthy public" can really affect society, please read about hook works and the South!

2. Despite your uneducated claims that F is only a "poison", it is--in reality, a micronutrient. The body needs it to help percipient hydroxyapatite crystalline formation and for deposition of hydroxyapatite on organocollagen matrix. I'm not going to explain hydroxyapatite chemistry to you, that would be a waste of my time and yours.

3. You know as much about iron (Fe) and chlorine (Cl) as you do about F. You could of course, look into all the biochemistry and uses of Fe and Cl and the myriad number of things they are used for as well (by the way they are both "poisons" as well, too much Fe causes hemochromatosis and too much Cl can cause a wide range of health effects--In fact, we use Cl as an antimicrobial, because chlorinated compounds are dangerous to life (all life)). In fact, all halides (please look that word up if you don't know what it means) are "poisons". Regardless the body needs them, the only real exception to this seems to be Br.

Here we are, a few years later, and you've still yet to grasp the idea of dosage-dependency.

4. As for our "stomachs and intestines" processing F, you could of course look through some of the studies I've posted up numerous times now. Specifically looking under the section entitled bioavailability/pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics. You may want to look at the studies that use words like "clearance" and "excretion" as well.

Edited by Copasetic, 26 February 2011 - 04:48 PM.


#156    danielost

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 06:24 PM

View PostCopasetic, on 26 February 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

I understand why so many people are leaving GP/FP these days because of troubling patients and encounters. Between non-compliance, lack of discipline and patients who think they know everything about medicine (when in fact they know so little, they can't even tell how little they know), is it little wonder those specialties are rapidly being depleted.  

Let's just do it like a list, shall we?


1. You'll note, had you actually dawned your comprehension skills, that what I was comparing in my post was the implementation of public health measures. Let me relay that again; puhb-lik helth mezh-ers.

As hard as it maybe to imagine for you, there is a whole working group of people who's job is the concern over public health. Why? Because PH is important to the functioning of society. For an interesting case study of how an "unhealthy public" can really affect society, please read about hook works and the South!

2. Despite your uneducated claims that F is only a "poison", it is--in reality, a micronutrient. The body needs it to help percipient hydroxyapatite crystalline formation and for deposition of hydroxyapatite on organocollagen matrix. I'm not going to explain hydroxyapatite chemistry to you, that would be a waste of my time and yours.

3. You know as much about iron (Fe) and chlorine (Cl) as you do about F. You could of course, look into all the biochemistry and uses of Fe and Cl and the myriad number of things they are used for as well (by the way they are both "poisons" as well, too much Fe causes hemochromatosis and too much Cl can cause a wide range of health effects--In fact, we use Cl as an antimicrobial, because chlorinated compounds are dangerous to life (all life)). In fact, all halides (please look that word up if you don't know what it means) are "poisons". Regardless the body needs them, the only real exception to this seems to be Br.

Here we are, a few years later, and you've still yet to grasp the idea of dosage-dependency.

4. As for our "stomachs and intestines" processing F, you could of course look through some of the studies I've posted up numerous times now. Specifically looking under the section entitled bioavailability/pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics. You may want to look at the studies that use words like "clearance" and "excretion" as well.


no this is just another case of government knows best.  dispute it being a poison and a bad one.  did you ever read the back of your toothpaste.  you know the little warning that states if you swallow a pea sized amount call poison control.  so tell me how much do we get in a day from drinking tap water, how much in a week, in a month.  and how much do we get rid of in those times.  your the doctor you should know those answers without looking them up,

o2 is a poison, funny how we are dependent on so many poisons.  but why do we want to add more poisons to our system.

I am a mormon.  If I don't use mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the mormon faith. Thank for careing and if you don't peace be with you.

#157    Copasetic

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Posted 26 February 2011 - 08:38 PM

View Postdanielost, on 26 February 2011 - 06:24 PM, said:

no this is just another case of government knows best.  dispute it being a poison and a bad one.  did you ever read the back of your toothpaste.  you know the little warning that states if you swallow a pea sized amount call poison control.  so tell me how much do we get in a day from drinking tap water, how much in a week, in a month.  and how much do we get rid of in those times.  your the doctor you should know those answers without looking them up,

o2 is a poison, funny how we are dependent on so many poisons.  but why do we want to add more poisons to our system.


:no:


#158    psychoticmike

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 05:02 AM

my main concern is the amount we may be consuming. Out of all the sources of fluoride are we absolutely sure we are not getting to much? growth of food, processing of food, swimming, drinking, bathing, etc. are you telling me all of these sources combined are not having a negative effect on human health? the fluoride is to diluted to cause any harm? the other thing that bothers me is the lack of choice in this matter, it is similar to drugs we all know drugs are bad, but imo they should not be illegal it simply should not be up to the government to decide what i can and can't put in my own body, but this is the opposite instead of being told i can't put something in my body, i am being told i have to put something in my body and i have absolutely no choice in the matter because once fluoride is in the public water you can't ever truly escape it or avoid it because almost all food will have it and nearly all beverages will to so with that all said, is the concentration really nothing to worry about? theres no possibility we are getting to much because of those sources?


#159    regeneratia

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Posted 11 July 2011 - 11:51 PM

New Study: Fluoride Can Damage the Brain - Avoid Use in Children
http://www.prnewswir...-124299299.html


NEW YORK, June 21, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- "The prolonged ingestion of fluoride may cause significant damage to health and particularly to the nervous system," concludes a review of studies by researchers Valdez-Jimenez, et al. published in Neurologia (June 2011), reports New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation, Inc. (NYSCOF).

The research team reports, "It is important to be aware of this serious problem and avoid the use of toothpaste and items that contain fluoride, particularly in children as they are more susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride." (1)

"Fluoride can be toxic by ingesting one part per million (ppm), and the effects are not immediate, as they can take 20 years or more to become evident," they write.

Most fluoridating U.S. public drinking water suppliers add fluoride chemicals to deliver 1 ppm fluoride (equal to about 1 milligram per quart) intending to benefit teeth and not to purify the water.

"Fluoridation clearly jeopardizes our children and must be stopped," says attorney Paul Beeber, President, NYSCOF.  "We can actually see how fluoride has damaged children's teeth with dental fluorosis; but we can't see the harm it's doing to their brains and other organs. No U.S. researcher is even looking," says Beeber.

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#160    DieChecker

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 05:40 AM

Quote

....reports New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation, Inc. (NYSCOF).

I'm sure dispite the name of their organization they did their research impartially?

Quote

"Fluoridation clearly jeopardizes our children and must be stopped," says attorney Paul Beeber, President, NYSCOF.  "We can actually see how fluoride has damaged children's teeth with dental fluorosis; but we can't see the harm it's doing to their brains and other organs. No U.S. researcher is even looking," says Beeber.

Valdez-Jimenez, et al. describe studies that show fluoride induces changes in the brain's physical structure and biochemistry which affects the neurological  and mental development of individuals including cognitive processes, such as learning and memory.

Apparenly the stars of this claim is the Valdez-Jimenez Study that was published in June 2011 in Neurologia, a spanish language Journal that I'm having some trouble finding out where it comes out of. I think the whole name is Neurologia medico-chirurgica.

I'll wait till US researchers cooborate the data before saying this is a decent idea.

Personnally I think there is no need for fluoridated water and that if fluoride is needed, you should go get it from the Pharmacy.

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#161    Rafterman

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Posted 12 July 2011 - 03:34 PM

View Postregeneratia, on 11 July 2011 - 11:51 PM, said:

New Study: Fluoride Can Damage the Brain - Avoid Use in Children
http://www.prnewswir...-124299299.html


NEW YORK, June 21, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- "The prolonged ingestion of fluoride may cause significant damage to health and particularly to the nervous system," concludes a review of studies by researchers Valdez-Jimenez, et al. published in Neurologia (June 2011), reports New York State Coalition Opposed to Fluoridation, Inc. (NYSCOF).

The research team reports, "It is important to be aware of this serious problem and avoid the use of toothpaste and items that contain fluoride, particularly in children as they are more susceptible to the toxic effects of fluoride." (1)

"Fluoride can be toxic by ingesting one part per million (ppm), and the effects are not immediate, as they can take 20 years or more to become evident," they write.

Most fluoridating U.S. public drinking water suppliers add fluoride chemicals to deliver 1 ppm fluoride (equal to about 1 milligram per quart) intending to benefit teeth and not to purify the water.

"Fluoridation clearly jeopardizes our children and must be stopped," says attorney Paul Beeber, President, NYSCOF.  "We can actually see how fluoride has damaged children's teeth with dental fluorosis; but we can't see the harm it's doing to their brains and other organs. No U.S. researcher is even looking," says Beeber.

So I'm assuming they looked at the long term health of the tens of thousands of individuals around the world who live in areas where water has high levels of naturally occuring fluoride?  Texas Teeth anyone?

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#162    regeneratia

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 01:35 AM

Dr. Ron Paul:



"The federal government should have zero...nothing to do with the promotion of fluoridation unless its on a military base...and hopefully there they would do the right thing.  So no, federal fluoride promotion shouldn't exist, they shouldn't be telling you or anyone else what should happen because even though it was well intended at the time--I remember that I thought it was a bad principle because in a way it was massive treatment--and at the time everybody accepted the idea that fluoride was great and that you would never get a cavity and there was no downside, now there is a big question, that's why you don't want government doing these kinds of things.  You or I should decide, someone should give us bottled water with fluoride, or we should have the ability to buy water with fluoride, but we should not have the federal government promoting fluoridation...sometimes their right, most of the time their wrong.  They shouldn't have the authority to do this.  Especially with the information out there now about fluoride, I would do my best to stop federal involvement with state and local fluoride decisions."



Ron Paul is a physician trained in obstetrics and gynecology and has been a U.S. Congressman representing the Houston area of Texas for over 20 years. He has run for President twice before,  has multiple best selling books, and has a very large and loyal following across the United States.

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#163    regeneratia

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 01:38 AM

View PostRafterman, on 12 July 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:

So I'm assuming they looked at the long term health of the tens of thousands of individuals around the world who live in areas where water has high levels of naturally occuring fluoride?  Texas Teeth anyone?

I am not assuming anything.

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#164    Rafterman

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Posted 14 July 2011 - 02:50 PM

View Postregeneratia, on 14 July 2011 - 01:38 AM, said:

I am not assuming anything.

You're assuming that Ron Paul knows what in the hell he's talking about and isn't simply pandering to the kook fringe that support him.

Edited by Rafterman, 14 July 2011 - 02:50 PM.

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#165    psychoticmike

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Posted 16 July 2011 - 10:38 AM

View PostRafterman, on 14 July 2011 - 02:50 PM, said:

You're assuming that Ron Paul knows what in the hell he's talking about and isn't simply pandering to the kook fringe that support him.


thats a valid point but the decision should still be left up to the individual whether they want fluoride or not! instead you are forced to consume it in high quantities every single day and you have no say in it, and now there is plenty of research saying it is bad in high quantities, the fda says we are not getting it in high enough doses but this is coming from a corrupt agency that approves drugs and then you later see on the tv those drugs being recalled because they are killing people and causing heart attacks etc. so clearly they were wrong when they studied the effects of those drugs, so they can also be wrong about the proper amount of fluoride! don't believe me about the corruption?

check this link out

Scientists inform Obama of Corruption at the FDA





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