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The Incas, explorers of the Pacific


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#1    Abramelin

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:29 PM

I think the Incas sailed to Easter Island, and maybe also to the Galapagos Islands. Thor Heyerdahl tried to prove it. But just looking at the walls underneath the moai statues convinced me the Incas did reach Easter Island.


HISTORY OF THE INCAS
by
PEDRO SARMIENTO DE GAMBOA (1572)


Chapter XLVI.
TUPAC INCA YUPANQUI SETS OUT, A SECOND TIME, BY ORDER OF HIS FATHER, TO CONQUER WHAT REMAINED UNSUBDUED IN CHINCHAY-SUYU.


[...]

Marching and conquering on the coast of Manta, and the island of Puna, and Tumbez, there arrived at Tumbez some merchants who had come by sea from the west, navigating in balsas with sails. They gave information of the land whence they came, which consisted of some islands called Avachumbi and Ninachumbi, where there were many people and much gold. Tupac Inca was a man of lofty and ambitious ideas, and was not satisfied with the regions he had already conquered. So he determined to challenge a happy fortune, and see if it would favour him by sea. Yet he did not lightly believe the navigating merchants, for such men, being great talkers, ought not to be credited too readily. In order to obtain fuller information, and as it was not a business of which news could easily be got, he called a man, who accompanied him in his conquests, named Antarqui who, they all declare, was a great necromancer and could even fly through the air. Tupac Inca asked him whether what the merchant mariners said was true. Antarqui answered, after having thought the matter well out, that what they said was true, and that he would go there first. They say that he accomplished this by his arts, traversed the route, saw the islands, their people and riches, and, returning, gave certain information of all to Tupac Inca.

The Inca, having this certainty, determined to go there. He caused an immense number of balsas to be constructed, in which he embarked more than 20,000 chosen men; taking with him as captains Huaman Achachi, Cunti Yupanqui, Quihual Tupac (all Hanan-cuzcos), Yancan Mayta, Quisu Mayta, Cachimapaca Macus Yupanqui, Llimpita Usca Mayta (Hurin-cuzcos); his brother Tilca Yupanqui being general of the whole fleet. Apu Yupanqui was left in command of the army which remained on land.

Tupac Inca navigated and sailed on until he discovered the islands of Avachumbi and Ninachumbi, and returned, bringing back with him black people, gold, a chair of brass, and a skin and jaw bone of a horse. These trophies were preserved in the fortress of Cuzco until the Spaniards came. An Inca now living had charge of this skin and jaw bone of a horse. He gave this account, and the rest who were present corroborated it. His name is Urco Huaranca. I am particular about this because to those who know anything of the Indies it will appear a strange thing and difficult to believe. The duration of this expedition undertaken by Tupac Inca was nine months, others say a year, and, as he was so long absent, every one believed he was dead. But to deceive them and make them think that news of Tupac Inca had come, Apu Yupanqui, his general of the land army, made rejoicings. This was afterwards commented upon to his disadvantage, and it was said that he rejoiced because he was pleased that Tupac Inca Yupanqui did not appear. It cost him his life.

These are the islands which I discovered in the South Sea on the 30th of November, 1567, 200 and more leagues to the westward, being the great discovery of which I gave notice to the Licentiate Governor Castro. But Alvaro de Mendaña, General of the Fleet, did not wish to occupy them[104].

[Note 104: This story of the navigation of Tupac Inca to the islands of Ninachumbi and Avachumbi or Hahua chumpi is told by Balboa as well as by Sarmiento. They were no doubt two of the Galapagos Islands. Nina chumpi means fire island, and Hahua chumpi outer island. See my introduction to the Voyages of Sarmiento, p. xiii; and Las Islas de Galapagos by Marco Jimenes de la Espada.]


http://www.gutenberg...18/pg20218.html



Easter Island:

Posted Image

Here's a thing. Despite most people agreeing that the original inhabitants of Easter Island were Polynesian , you only have to take a look at the walls underneath the moai statues to see a wall that looks remarkably like those found in Inca Peru.

The blocks are incredibly close together and have many corners all fitting together without any mortar and with complete precision. I have seen similar walls in Cuzco.

So compelling was this that it spurred Thor Heyerdahl on to sail from Peru to Easter Island in the Kon Tiki raft to prove that the Incas could have colonized the island. Did they? Maybe we will never know?

Maybe some Incas did make it and gave the islanders the secrets of wall building?


http://members.virtu...m/m/p/m/1d958e/



Of course there remain a couple of questions, like:

(1) Who were these black people Túpac Inca Yapanqui brought with him?

(2) What animal did the "skin and jaw bone of a horse" really belong to?


And an extra one:

(3) Did the Incas meet the Mayans, who also sailed the seas on huge balsa rafts?

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the Mayans are/were darker skinned than the Incas/Quechua, so these 'black people' could be no one else but Mayans.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 January 2013 - 06:37 PM.


#2    Abramelin

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 06:53 PM

Here a talk about the "long ears" and the "short ears" on Easter Island:

http://answers.yahoo...23055648AAkjZ2l

Now I know some people think of 'Caucasians' when they read 'light skin' or 'red hair'.

But I know from experience that people who have a dark skin by nature will call anyone slightly lighter of skin 'white skinned'.

And the 'red hair' doesn't have to be a mystery: people all over the world decorate themselves, tattooed themselves, elongated skulls, pierced their ear lobes, circumcision, knocking out the 4 upper incisors, filed their teeth sharp as those of a piraña, elongated their neck with rings, and so on.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Incas - that is, the rulers of the Quechua people - bleached their naturally black hair to make it look red, because that is the effect bleach has on black hair: it turns red.




.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 January 2013 - 07:00 PM.


#3    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 07:30 PM

I think there is ample evidence that South American people interacted with polynesians. This is because the staple food for most polynesians is the sweet potato, which is native to South America. So far no solid theory has been made as to how polynesians had sweet potato since at least 700 AD. Maybe there was a meeting of two cultures on Easter Island?

Quote

current thinking is that it was brought to central Polynesia around 700 AD, possibly by Polynesians who had traveled to South America and back, and spread across Polynesia to Hawaii and New Zealand from there.[9][10] It is possible, however, that South Americans brought it to the Pacific, although this is unlikely as it was the Polynesians who had a strong maritime tradition and not the native South Americans. The theory that the plant could spread by floating seeds across the ocean is not supported by evidence. Another point is that the sweet potato in Polynesia is the cultivated Ipomoea batatas, which is generally spread by vine cuttings and not by seeds.[11]

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Sweet_potato

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 08 January 2013 - 07:31 PM.


#4    Mario Dantas

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:02 PM

Abramelin,

Quote

So compelling was this that it spurred Thor Heyerdahl on to sail from Peru to Easter Island in the Kon Tiki raft to prove that the Incas could have colonized the island. Did they? Maybe we will never know?

Maybe some Incas did make it and gave the islanders the secrets of wall building?

It is to me incredible how people still think Heyerdahl was right when he has already been proved wrong, by Brian Sykes (The seven daughters of Eve). The Polynesians came from Asia (China and around), it is in their DNA...

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 08 January 2013 - 08:05 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
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2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
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#5    Abramelin

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:05 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 08 January 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

I think there is ample evidence that South American people interacted with polynesians. This is because the staple food for most polynesians is the sweet potato, which is native to South America. So far no solid theory has been made as to how polynesians had sweet potato since at least 700 AD. Maybe there was a meeting of two cultures on Easter Island?



http://en.wikipedia....ki/Sweet_potato

That was what I was thinking of too: the 'kumara', or the sweet potatoe.

But who brought what to whom? The Polynesians to the Incas/Quechua, or the other way round?

Or did they influence eachother in a mutual way?


#6    Abramelin

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

View PostMario Dantas, on 08 January 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

Abramelin,



It is to me incredible how people still think Heyerdahl was right when he has already been proved wrong, by Brian Sykes (The seven daughters of Eve). The Polynesians came from Asia (China and around), it is in their DNA...

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Then show me some paper that explains to us who built the polygonal walls (in typical Inca style) beneath the moai:

Posted Image


#7    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:



(3) Did the Incas meet the Mayans, who also sailed the seas on huge balsa rafts?

Maybe I am wrong, but I think the Mayans are/were darker skinned than the Incas/Quechua, so these 'black people' could be no one else but Mayans.

.


Question is how far Maya streched to the south? Were Mayans in Nicaragua and Costa Rica?
If so then I think answer is yes. Because when Vasco Nunez de Balboa discover(?) Pacific ocean he met natives in Panama which told him about Inca empire. Among Balboa crew was famous Pizzaro.

So fron Honduras Guatemala to Panama isnt far. (?)

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#8    Abramelin

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:15 PM

To Mario:

This is not some outrageous theory trying to 'explain' how Greenland (your "Atlantis") was able to plow through the Mid-Atlantic Ridge without changing shape, and end up where it is now.

This is about nothing but what Incan sailors could have accomplished.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 January 2013 - 08:16 PM.


#9    Abramelin

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

View Postthe L, on 08 January 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Question is how far Maya streched to the south? Were Mayans in Nicaragua and Costa Rica?
If so then I think answer is yes. Because when Vasco Nunez de Balboa discover(?) Pacific ocean he met natives in Panama which told him about Inca empire. Among Balboa crew was famous Pizzaro.

So fron Honduras Guatemala to Panama isnt far. (?)


There, and now you know what I am going to ask: links to sources, please.


#10    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:13 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 January 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

There, and now you know what I am going to ask: links to sources, please.

Sorry Abramelin it is common knowledge so I supposed there is no need for it.

http://en.wikipedia....║├▒ez_de_Balboa

becoming the first European to lead an expedition to have seen or reached the Pacific from the New World.

http://en.wikipedia....ya_civilization

Maya influence can be detected from Honduras, Belize, Guatemala, and western El Salvador to as far away as central Mexico, more than 1,000 km (620 mi) from the Maya area.

About Balboa reaching Pacific Ocean and heard stories about Inca from Natives in Panama. I didnt search for source but Im sure there is outhere.
I would like to developed my claim further.

Here is story in short.


Balboa discover Pacific Ocean. He built ships on east side of Panama and in parts move them on other side on Pacific ocean.
There he heard stories about Empire full of gold in the south.
Villa set up plot Balboa and he was sentence to death. Beside Balboa on his ship was Pizzaro.
Pizzaro now start working for Villa who made set up for Balboa.
In Panama Pizzaro draw line in sand and said to his Spainyards:

Something like this, my interpretation:

"Here where you stand (spainyards stand north of the line he draw in sand.meaning today Panama) is nothing then poor, hunger and diseases. Here where Im (he was south of that line) was rich and wealthiness. Who wants to go with me go over that line."

And he and his 62 mount soldiers and 106 footsoldiers (Inca have had 100 000 soldiers.)decided to go south to search for that empire which Balboa heard from natives in Panama.



Pizzaro and his men when came in Inca empire were alone, 3000 km from Panama. 3000 km from first European.
Thats the different between Pizzaro and Cortes.

Also as I remember reading (must check this) that while they sailed to Inca empire met Inca fishermen in their ship.
I think that they notice that they have had gold on them and extraordinary fine blankets.

Edit: Native who told Balboa about Inca said that they (Inca) drink from gold cups, eat from golden plates...

Edited by the L, 08 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#11    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

Pizarro had heard rumors of a land in South America that was full of gold and other treasures. He wanted to explore the land. He made two initial expeditions into the land.

The first expedition took place in 1524 and was a total failure. Several of his men died and Pizarro had to turn back without discovering anything of value.

The second trip in 1526 went better as Pizarro reached the Tumbez people on the borders of the Inca Empire. He now knew for sure that the gold he had heard tales of was more than just rumors. However, he eventually had to turn back before reaching the Inca.

The Fight to Return to Peru

Pizarro now wanted to mount a third expedition. However, the local governor of Panama had lost confidence in Pizarro and refused to let him go. Very determined to mount another expedition, Pizarro travelled back to Spain to get the support of the king. Pizarro eventually received the support of the Spanish government for a third expedition. He was also named the governor of the territory.

http://www.ducksters...sco_pizarro.php

Its for the kids but you can see that states that Pizzaro heard rumors in Panama.

Now I asure you that rumor came from Balboa conversation with natives in Panama.
Im sure there are on internet exactly what Balboa was told about Inca empire. But I can find it.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#12    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 09:38 PM

Remember one detail,



In 1511 in todays Panama one native told to Vasco de Balboa that there is empire where people eat and drink
from golden plates and cups.
28 years later Pizzaro was in heart of that empire.

Also one interesting thing to reconsider.

Inca empire have had small pox pandemic 7years before 1532/Pizzaro.


:rolleyes:

Edited by the L, 08 January 2013 - 09:38 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#13    Mario Dantas

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 11:36 PM

Abramelin,

When you said:

Quote

I think the Incas sailed to Easter Island, and maybe also to the Galapagos Islands. Thor Heyerdahl tried to prove it. But just looking at the walls underneath the moai statues convinced me the Incas did reach Easter Island.


Although it might even be true Incas might have sailed the Pacific, they were certainly not responsible for Polynesian colonization. I am amazed by your post, it is really intriguing that Easter Island appears to bear evidence of Inca culture and/or similar building techniques...

Posted Image

http://upload.wikime...uth_america.jpg


Quote

Then show me some paper that explains to us who built the polygonal walls (in typical Inca style) beneath the moai

I guess one should rather ask who were the "black" and "white" people or what were they doing there, in the first place...

Anyway, Inca could have reached Easter island, even taught them how to construct "polygonal walls", as you put it. But there is more to this story than is apparent to the eye.

Regards,
Mario Dantas

Edited by Mario Dantas, 08 January 2013 - 11:39 PM.

1. Catalog of Images
https://picasaweb.google.com/106047243612755133722

2. Was Atlantis in Greenland?
http://a7lan7is.blogspot.com

#14    Abramelin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:41 AM

View Postthe L, on 08 January 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

Sorry Abramelin it is common knowledge so I supposed there is no need for it.

http://en.wikipedia....║├▒ez_de_Balboa

becoming the first European to lead an expedition to have seen or reached the Pacific from the New World.

http://en.wikipedia....ya_civilization

Maya influence can be detected from Honduras, Belize, Guatemala, and western El Salvador to as far away as central Mexico, more than 1,000 km (620 mi) from the Maya area.

About Balboa reaching Pacific Ocean and heard stories about Inca from Natives in Panama. I didnt search for source but Im sure there is outhere.
I would like to developed my claim further.

Here is story in short.


Balboa discover Pacific Ocean. He built ships on east side of Panama and in parts move them on other side on Pacific ocean.
There he heard stories about Empire full of gold in the south.
Villa set up plot Balboa and he was sentence to death. Beside Balboa on his ship was Pizzaro.
Pizzaro now start working for Villa who made set up for Balboa.
In Panama Pizzaro draw line in sand and said to his Spainyards:

Something like this, my interpretation:

"Here where you stand (spainyards stand north of the line he draw in sand.meaning today Panama) is nothing then poor, hunger and diseases. Here where Im (he was south of that line) was rich and wealthiness. Who wants to go with me go over that line."

And he and his 62 mount soldiers and 106 footsoldiers (Inca have had 100 000 soldiers.)decided to go south to search for that empire which Balboa heard from natives in Panama.



Pizzaro and his men when came in Inca empire were alone, 3000 km from Panama. 3000 km from first European.
Thats the different between Pizzaro and Cortes.

Also as I remember reading (must check this) that while they sailed to Inca empire met Inca fishermen in their ship.
I think that they notice that they have had gold on them and extraordinary fine blankets.

Edit: Native who told Balboa about Inca said that they (Inca) drink from gold cups, eat from golden plates...

That is just your interpretation of what you read.

It was in Comagre's lands that Balboa first heard of "the other sea." It started with a squabble among the Spaniards, unsatisfied by the meager amounts of gold they were being allotted. Comagre's eldest son, Panquiaco, angered by the Spaniards' avarice, knocked over the scales used to measure gold and exclaimed: "If you are so hungry for gold that you leave your lands to cause strife in those of others, I shall show you a province where you can quell this hunger". Panquiaco told them of a kingdom to the south, where people were so rich that they ate and drank from plates and goblets made of gold, but that the conquerors would need at least a thousand men to defeat the tribes living inland and those on the coast of "the other sea".

(...)

From there, he crossed the lands of Ponca and Careta, to finally arrive in Santa María on January 19, 1514, with a treasure in cotton goods, more than 100,000 castellanos worth of gold, to say nothing of the pearls. All this, however, did not compare to the magnitude of the "discovery" of the South Sea on behalf of Spain. Balboa commanded Pedro de Arbolancha to set sail for Spain with news of this "discovery".

http://en.wikipedia....║├▒ez_de_Balboa


Yes, they EVENTUALLY discovered the Incas, but Balboa had already found lots of gold in 'the south', like Panquicao had told him.

So it's not 'common knowledge' like you said. The main discovery was the "South Sea", or the Pacific, and they (Pizarro) just went further south to explore its coasts.


#15    Abramelin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:49 AM

View Postthe L, on 08 January 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Remember one detail,



In 1511 in todays Panama one native told to Vasco de Balboa that there is empire where people eat and drink
from golden plates and cups.
28 years later Pizzaro was in heart of that empire.

Also one interesting thing to reconsider.

Inca empire have had small pox pandemic 7years before 1532/Pizzaro.


:rolleyes:


Spanish conquistadors led by Francisco Pizarro and his brothers explored south from what is today Panama, reaching Inca territory by 1526.

When they returned to Peru in 1532, a war of the two brothers between Huayna Capac's sons Huáscar and Atahualpa and unrest among newly conquered territories—and perhaps more importantly, smallpox, which had spread from Central America—had considerably weakened the empire.


http://en.wikipedia....iki/Inca_Empire

Guess who brought the Incas smallpox... Pizarro and his men, in 1526.





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