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Edgar Mitchell calls for end to UFO cover-ups


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#106    hacktorp

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Posted 23 July 2013 - 09:56 PM

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What, exactly, is Mitchell testifying to having seen?

Nothing.

It's hearsay. And unsourced, to boot. "Somebody whose name I can't tell you once told me this, and so you should believe it's true."

Why is it presented here as evidence for anything?


Mitchell only claims to have himself concluded there's much more to be disclosed on the subject and calls on gov't to do exactly that.

You are too busy debunking a claim he doesn't make...namely that he's offering anything beyond his opinion.

Unless you're getting paid by the hour, you might be wasting your time with such an argument.

Edited by hacktorp, 23 July 2013 - 10:05 PM.


#107    conspiracy buff

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 03:50 PM

View Posthacktorp, on 23 July 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Mitchell only claims to have himself concluded there's much more to be disclosed on the subject and calls on gov't to do exactly that.

You are too busy debunking a claim he doesn't make...namely that he's offering anything beyond his opinion.

Unless you're getting paid by the hour, you might be wasting your time with such an argument.

You are wasting your time with Oberg.  He is clearly a debunker who will not be objective on this subject which is why you'll never get anything remotely resembling a balanced reply from him.  He was too busy putting words into Mitchell's mouth and not understanding what he actually DID say.  Mitchell is saying that he personally has seen evidence that makes him believe that UFOs exist and have been actively covered up and that more study needs to be done.  You gotta remember, Mitchell is a PHd and has actually been in space and worked with NASA.  What exactly are Mr. Oberg's qualifications to dispute Mitchell?  This is common amongst debunkers to base their attacks on a personal opinion and thus overlooking the obvious.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#108    JimOberg

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:17 PM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 24 July 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

....Mitchell is saying that he personally has seen evidence that makes him believe that UFOs exist ....

All I'm aware of is that he has been told by people who may have seen -- or been told by others who said they'd seen -- such evidence.

I can't find any claims from Mitchell that HE has seen evidence.

Please, what am I missing? Or what are you imagining?


#109    quillius

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 04:30 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 24 July 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

All I'm aware of is that he has been told by people who may have seen -- or been told by others who said they'd seen -- such evidence.

I can't find any claims from Mitchell that HE has seen evidence.

Please, what am I missing? Or what are you imagining?

He has said he has seen evidence, the problem we will have next is what is classed as evidence.

He has stated he has seen photos of the aliens (greys to be specific)
He has also stated he has seen photos of the triangle over Phoenix, photos from people that were there.

Are these the pictures we have seen also??? are these pictures of lights or something more?

I am sure he has made other comments about things he has seen but the problem will still come back to what is evidence, at least in this context.

I will be bale to get you links to the interviews where some of this was said but it will have to be tomorrow....confirm you need them first please.

edit to add: I see CB stated 'evidence that made him believe' so we can rule out scientific evidence otherwise he wouldnt use the word believe.

Edited by quillius, 24 July 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#110    conspiracy buff

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 09:38 PM

View PostJimOberg, on 24 July 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

All I'm aware of is that he has been told by people who may have seen -- or been told by others who said they'd seen -- such evidence.

I can't find any claims from Mitchell that HE has seen evidence.

Please, what am I missing? Or what are you imagining?

I'm sure that much of what Mitchell is privy to as far as specific evidence is covered under some sort of confidential agreement between himself and NASA that cannot be disclosed.  Again, if the government is actively covering this topic up don't you think they would cover their tracks?  They classify this as a security issue and people sign disclosure agreements that if violated, could send them to prison or worse.  Just look @ Area 51 and the "deadly force" sign.  This cover up has been going on for a very long time and those in charge are very intelligent and know how to work the system enough that this will probably continue until such time that the UFO/ET presence can no longer be covered up.  If you read Mitchell's claims and hear various interviews he only gives his opinion and does not state it as fact.  Again, what qualifies you to scoff at a man for giving his viewpoint?  Because the world would be a shallow and empty place if we all agreed on everything.  I imagine nothing and only go by things I've read, heard, or seen on this UFO topic.  Guys like Edgar Mitchell should be respected for doing their parts in trying to get governments to disclose what they know about UFOs and aliens because that is very difficult to do.  Meanwhile, ridiculing their credibility and viewpoints is very easy and close minded especially considering this man's qualifications and credibility.  You are the classic example of a debunker as opposed to a healthy skeptic because even skeptics would have to look at the overall scope of circumstantial evidence and admit more scientific research should be conducted to either debunk entirely or validate UFOs and what they are/why they are visiting us.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#111    JimOberg

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Posted 24 July 2013 - 10:34 PM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 24 July 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

I'm sure that much of what Mitchell is privy to as far as specific evidence is covered under some sort of confidential agreement between himself and NASA that cannot be disclosed. .....

oh, goodie. you now admit he DIDN'T claim to have seen evidence, you just imagine he MUST have and is being forced to lie about it. Even when he plainly states nobody has forced him to conceal anything, you think maybe that's PROOF he is being forced to conceal stuff?

I'm dizzy. What evidence do you offer?


#112    conspiracy buff

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 12:47 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 24 July 2013 - 10:34 PM, said:

oh, goodie. you now admit he DIDN'T claim to have seen evidence, you just imagine he MUST have and is being forced to lie about it. Even when he plainly states nobody has forced him to conceal anything, you think maybe that's PROOF he is being forced to conceal stuff?

I have never said he had evidence, as that was inferred by you.  What I did say is that debunkers will go to any lengths to dismiss this topic and that Mitchell should be respected for his stance on this.  I also see a lot on your part as far as assuming things and you know what they say about those who assume, don't you Mr. Oberg?  Quite simply what I have been saying is that Mitchell has seen enough that a man of his qualifications & credibility that there must be something that he has seen that made him think that.  Meaning his time at NASA namely because they are long suspected of being privy to the government cover-up simply because of their ties to outer space and the Apollo program.  As I have been clearly saying all along there is no hands on proof because it is concealed by those in the know and those who have the actual crafts, bodies, and whatever physical proof that has been recovered from alleged UFO crashes.

Quote

I'm dizzy. What evidence do you offer?

I am dizzy too.  Your arrogance and bravado are dumbfounding!  What evidence do you have that Mitchell is wrong on his OPINION?  Oh, that's right opinions are subjective so you cannot prove them.  The ego on this guy, wow!

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#113    JimOberg

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:08 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 25 July 2013 - 12:47 AM, said:

I have never said he had evidence, as that was inferred by you.  

Sorry if I misinterpreted your statement:

conspiracy buff, on 24 July 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

....Mitchell is saying that he personally has seen evidence that makes him believe that UFOs exist ....


#114    DONTEATUS

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:28 AM

Well Good Post Jim ITs going to Be up to you to Keep all these U/M members on the Level ! Were loosing a few of our great`s ! See ya ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#115    synchronomy

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 02:48 AM

Mitchell is indeed expressing an opinion, and is just relating what he hears from others it would seem.  I believe though, that he does have faith in the ETH and because of that he is spreading the word.  As an Apollo Astronaut having walked on the Moon, his opinions carry clout.  He is a frequent speaker at conventions and has done a great deal to remove the stigma of "little green men from Mars" clouding discussion of the subject.  Many popular physicists and cosmologists etc have stepped up to the plate because of courageous old timers such as Mitchell.
He is doing a good job of bringing research of the UFO phenomenon into mainstream science.
We should view him as a hero.  He's no slouch when it comes to hard work and dedication.
Check out his credentials here: Just click the tab with his name.
http://www.peaceinspace.com/about-us

At the heart of science is an essential balance between two seemingly contradictory attitudes--an openness to new ideas, no matter how bizarre or counterintuitive they may be, and the most ruthless skeptical scrutiny of all ideas, old and new.
This is how deep truths are winnowed from deep nonsense. -- Carl Sagan

#116    conspiracy buff

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:57 AM

View PostJimOberg, on 25 July 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

Sorry if I misinterpreted your statement:

conspiracy buff, on 24 July 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

....Mitchell is saying that he personally has seen evidence that makes him believe that UFOs exist ....

Again, I am saying that he claims to have seen enough to make him PERSONALLY believe that UFOs exist.  That is his stance on the issue, therefore since he has no direct proof all we can go on is his word.  You somehow misinterpreted what I said was his personal belief and deteriorated into asking for evidence itself.  Any logical person would obviously give more weight to someone who has been to outer space and most likely seen more than, I dunno, you have?  If a former astronaut is telling us that he has seen things then we must give that more weight than your average joe who isn't in a position to make the same claim.  You seem more interested in some ignorant witch hunt for UFO believers than you are in what Edgar Mitchell actually said which to me is quite ridiculous.  But please by all means keep doing that because it shows your blatant disrespect or tolerance for any view other than your own.  In the end you look like a fool for doing so by showing just how immature and sophomoric that most debunkers can be....

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#117    conspiracy buff

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:06 AM

View Postsynchronomy, on 25 July 2013 - 02:48 AM, said:

Mitchell is indeed expressing an opinion, and is just relating what he hears from others it would seem.  I believe though, that he does have faith in the ETH and because of that he is spreading the word.  As an Apollo Astronaut having walked on the Moon, his opinions carry clout.  He is a frequent speaker at conventions and has done a great deal to remove the stigma of "little green men from Mars" clouding discussion of the subject.  Many popular physicists and cosmologists etc have stepped up to the plate because of courageous old timers such as Mitchell.
He is doing a good job of bringing research of the UFO phenomenon into mainstream science.
We should view him as a hero.  He's no slouch when it comes to hard work and dedication.
Check out his credentials here: Just click the tab with his name.
http://www.peaceinspace.com/about-us

This is pretty much what I have been saying the entire time through out this thread.  Edgar Mitchell's opinion obviously carry clout because he has seen things us regular folks have not and has been inside the NASA machine at a time when UFOs were becoming more frequent and harder to explain away.  Debunkers spend the vast majority of their time ridiculing brave people like Mitchell who could have otherwise remained silent and not shared his insight into this topic.  The funny thing is that there are countless astronauts who have discussed and theorized about UFOs and aliens and Mitchell is not the first to do so, nor do I believe that he will be the last.  The universe is vastly infinite and only in the last few decades have we started learning just how big it truly is in regards to other star systems and planets.  The likelihood that we are alone is usually only the crutch debunkers can stand on when back in reality, it is far more likely that we are not alone.

There is a grain of truth in every conspiracy known to man, you just have to be intelligent enough to find it.

#118    badeskov

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:29 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 25 July 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

This is pretty much what I have been saying the entire time through out this thread.  Edgar Mitchell's opinion obviously carry clout because he has seen things us regular folks have not and has been inside the NASA machine at a time when UFOs were becoming more frequent and harder to explain away.

A typical fallacy, appeal to authority. Pray tell, why do you think that Mitchell would know more than the rest of us? Also, which of his credentials would make him a better analyst than others?

Quote

Debunkers spend the vast majority of their time ridiculing brave people like Mitchell who could have otherwise remained silent and not shared his insight into this topic.

Nobody is ridiculing Mitchell, and certainly not those with a skeptical mindset, they merely point out what he has said and what he has not said. It is the gullible believers that use him to elevate their beliefs with by exaggerating his claims regarding UFOs.

Quote

The funny thing is that there are countless astronauts who have discussed and theorized about UFOs and aliens and Mitchell is not the first to do so, nor do I believe that he will be the last.

Just as there are countless other people, engineers, janitors, maids etc. that have discussed and theorized about UFOs. Why do you think astronauts should be any different? And you are aware that no astronaut that Mitchell was aware have seen UFOs in space, right?

Quote

The universe is vastly infinite and only in the last few decades have we started learning just how big it truly is in regards to other star systems and planets.  The likelihood that we are alone is usually only the crutch debunkers can stand on when back in reality, it is far more likely that we are not alone.

The typical believer argument put forth again. Nobody is arguing that space is empty and that we are alone in the vastness of the Universe. All that is being argued is whether life from elsewhere is visiting Earth.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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#119    JimOberg

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:33 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 25 July 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

Again, I am saying that he claims to have seen enough to make him PERSONALLY believe that UFOs exist.  

That's what I thought you said. As far as I can tell from his comments and from our long, cordial email and telephone communications, he really hasn't claimed to have seen ANYTHING relevant to the subject. He's just heard stories that he believes to be true. He is endorsing the interpretations of other people. He has never claimed, AFAIK, to have "seen" things that I didn't see in Mission Control, either.

There seems to be an area. however, that I grant you he is reluctant to discuss. Amazingly, he trained side-by-side with Gordon Cooper in 1968-9 on an Apollo moon mission backup crew. Cooper was subsequently removed from consideration to command an Apollo mission based on performance shortcomings, but Mitchell flew to the moon with Alan Shepard, as we all know.

Since I've made a major effort to study Gordon Cooper's UFO stories and the way they shifted over the years, I asked Mitchell if he and Cooper had ever discussed the subject during their time together, often waiting for scheduled training or simulations to begin. He did not deny they had discussed it, he just said he was unwilling to reveal their private conversations out of respect for Cooper's reputation.

Why, I wonder, would that matter now? But Mitchell has been consistent in refusing to disclose the nature of his UFO discussions with Cooper.

Is it possible that Cooper's UFO stories in 1968-9 were significantly DIFFERENT from his later versions, and Mitchell wants the world to not know this? What do you think?


#120    JimOberg

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 05:36 AM

View Postconspiracy buff, on 25 July 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

...The funny thing is that there are countless astronauts who have discussed and theorized about UFOs and aliens and Mitchell is not the first to do so, nor do I believe that he will be the last.  ....

Mitchell has made it quite clear that UFOs was not a subject that ever came up while he was at NASA, and that none of his fellow astronauts on Gemini and Apollo flights, to his knowledge, ever reported anything of the sort, or saw them at all. And he was there. Will you believe him?





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