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Are we in Hell?


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#16    Mr Walker

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 02:03 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 May 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

To an extent one can make a silk purse out of whatever it is they make them out of, but not always.  You can make life heavenly if you aren't hungry or diseased or delusional or alone, and you don't have an itch on your back that you can't quite reach.

I'd go further. I think (from experience) that you can reach heaven in a state of mind even in all those scenarios.  In a sense we are conditioned to respond to external circumstances and we learn to try and ameliorate bad conditions from birth. (We hunger we cry and someone feeds us)

But true  awareness of consciousness allows one to be in a state of joy peace and harmony within ones mind at any time and under any conditions One of the main things  required to achieve this is to be able to surrender fear totally. Secondly to redefine ones reaction to pain  PAin is unpleasant, but first it can be largely controlled by mental discipline and reduced by a calm serene mind, but  secondly also pain tells us we are still alive The only time we sense nothing at all is when we are dead or in a deep coma and even in that case some perceptions may seep through. Thus pain is a good thing compared with the alternative. Third, to learn the mental diciplines necessary not to notice things like hunger or bodily discomfort, or if one notices them, just
to put them aside.

Delusional is about the only state I agree with you on. A person whose mind is not functioning properly, probably can't exercise the skills and disciplines  required to reach a state of internal empowement and joy.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#17    KrowMax

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:41 AM

Hell have a free Shabu and marijuana ..So This is not hell...^_^

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#18    The Great Gatsby

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 02:15 PM

It's not very optimistic, but maybe the world is hell and hell isn't optimistic. Hell is random, unfair and in the end suffering per se. It seems like many people feel perfectly fine, they laugh and tell you how good life is: "The world is such a wonderful place", but in fact, the other side can't show it's face, because it's either sick, hungry or dead.
There is more suffering than happiness and it's mostly random and can and will happen to anyone.


#19    Glenville86

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:59 AM

No - not Hell.  That would be cool as the OP suggested.


#20    sickpuppy

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:42 AM

this isn't hell.

My contribution is deciding how giant mutant space goats travel in space.
Newton's Second Law: For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction. They fart themselves around.

#21    Taun

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:30 AM

We are not in Hell... We are in Heck, which is ruled over by Phil, the Prince of Insufficent Light...

(credit to "Dilbert")


#22    A_Seeker

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:26 PM

Hell, like heaven is simply a state of being...I think it's actually a choice that we seem to have been conditioned to forget that we can make.


#23    Sherapy

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:10 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 May 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

To an extent one can make a silk purse out of whatever it is they make them out of, but not always.  You can make life heavenly if you aren't hungry or diseased or delusional or alone, and you don't have an itch on your back that you can't quite reach.

I agree with you Frank, realistically life will be tough at times, it will be beyond our control, beyond our ability to do to much about it, but get through what ever it is. . I am not of the philosophy that no matter what all we have to have is a happy mindset to be happy, no matter what life brings. I was not recently happy (while) sitting vigil beside my sons ICU bed in the hospital waiting for him to wake up from a coma, wondering if he would have brain damage. I was not happy (nor am I to this day) over my sisters murder, or my best friends suicide  etc etc. What I  have gained is an ability to survive, an ability to get back up, an ability to have the courage to face my grief, to cry my tears, to say I am afraid when I am, to be authentic in facing my life on its terms. I don't dismiss the value of using hindsight to find a way/perspective to produce some applicable wisdom in the senseless awful situations, but even then sometimes in life there is not even that possibility--AND all I can do is face the moment and that is the best I can make of my life, just to keep standing, and that is good enough for me.

Edited by Sherapy, 15 May 2013 - 08:21 PM.




#24    third_eye

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:13 PM

View PostSherapy, on 15 May 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I agree with you Frank, realistically life will be tough at times, it will be beyond our control beyond our ability to do too much about it, but get through what ever it is. . I am not of the philosophy that no matter what all we have to have is a happy mindset to be happy, no matter what life brings. I was not recently happy (while) sitting vigil beside my sons ICU bed in the hospital waiting for him to wake up from a coma, wondering if he would have brain damage. I was not happy (nor am I to this day) over my sisters murder, or my best friends suicide  etc etc. What I  have gained is an ability to survive, an ability to get back up, to have the courage to face my grief, to cry my tears,to say I am afraid when I am, to be authentic in facing life.   I have learned to use hindsight to find a way to produce some applicable wisdom out of senseless situations, but even then sometimes in life there is not even that possibility and all I can do is face the moment and that is the best I can make of my life and it is good enough considering.

~hugs~

good to see yoo back .... thoughts and prayers to the kid

The knower and the known are one. Simple people imagine that they should see God, as if He stood there and they here. This is not so. God and I, we are one in knowledge. ~ Eckhart

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#25    Sherapy

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:17 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 15 May 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

~hugs~

good to see yoo back .... thoughts and prayers to the kid


Thank you, (((Hugs))) back to you!




#26    libstaK

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:33 PM

Basically, we are where we think we are.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#27    tapirmusic

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:04 PM

"Hell is other people."


#28    Jesus Loves Us

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 09:04 PM

View PostSherapy, on 15 May 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

What I  have gained is an ability to survive, an ability to get back up, an ability to have the courage to face my grief, to cry my tears, to say I am afraid when I am, to be authentic in facing my life on its terms. I don't dismiss the value of using hindsight to find a way/perspective to produce some applicable wisdom in the senseless awful situations, but even then sometimes in life there is not even that possibility--AND all I can do is face the moment and that is the best I can make of my life, just to keep standing, and that is good enough for me.
None of those are directly related to you. You're not the one who got deathly sick. You're not the one who committed suicide. You're not the one who was the target of murder. It's only natural for you to move on because you don't have any mental problems. You don't have bipolar disorder and OCD. We've all risen above bad situations outside of ourselves. How about those who are constantly under attack, ill because of incurable sickness, on the edge to find their next meal, depressed because the medication has lost its effectiveness?


#29    Mr Walker

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:07 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 15 May 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

Basically, we are where we think we are.
I would say we are all as we chose to be.

View Poststop yield, on 15 May 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

None of those are directly related to you. You're not the one who got deathly sick. You're not the one who committed suicide. You're not the one who was the target of murder. It's only natural for you to move on because you don't have any mental problems. You don't have bipolar disorder and OCD. We've all risen above bad situations outside of ourselves. How about those who are constantly under attack, ill because of incurable sickness, on the edge to find their next meal, depressed because the medication has lost its effectiveness?
Because human emotional conditions are laregly intellectual ie, self aware, we can chose the emotional response we want. The only people who cannot do this are, as you point out, those who are mentally impaired and mentally incapable of regulating their emotional responses. They have no choice.
The rest of us respond as we have learned or been conditioned to respond. One can relearn how to respond to any situation.  We may feel grief because we would feel guilty not to, but a person can learn to be "stoical" or non emotional about any situation. We  often feel as we think we should feel, even when that hurts us unneccessarily. SOme people even think hurting is good and naturlal, and that if they dont feel hurt, they are not being human.

  But all emotions can be regulated You can feel appropriate concern or grief without allowing it to become overwhelming or disabling You can learn to be happy when a loved one dies You can learn not to be worried or afraid when you are very ill or even terminal.

it depends how you prefer to feel. No one needs to feel trapped by emotions. If you chose to feel worry pain grief etc that's ok, but if you chose not to suffer these things, you do not have to.

There is a differnce between doing every thimg practical to overcome or help in such situations but when you have done all you can then there is no need to worry or fear or grive it is unnecessary and often unproductive. So, if you are worried or stressed by something you can take action on, then that is productive worry which might spur you to action, but to worry about something outside your power to influence is pointless.

Here's a minoir example. Yesterday  I tried for an hour to get through to a telco provider (the nations biggest) who had not sent me an account or a bill since I signed up with them, but they were very busy and I could not get through. I got frustrated and a bit angry at the waste of time and inefficiency But then i realised these emotions were unprocductive and unhelpful, so i just "removed them."

Then I got through to a very nice bloke who helped me out and solved the problem within a few minutes. I spoke to him calmly and politely and thanked him for his help and his professionalism.

His reply stunned me. He said "No. Thank you. We have had a frantic day here, and all day I have had customers abusing me and yelling at me. It was so nice to hear someone speak respectfully, rationally, and politely to me"
My response was that, indeed, I had felt frustrated, but it had not even occured to me to show that frustration and anger to him. He was not to blame, and it would have been wrong to take out my frustrations on him.

He had spent  a whole day being abused by people who could not, or would not, modify their anger and frustration when speaking to him. Yet when he spoke to me at the end of the day it was still with calm, helpful, professionalism. I spoke to his supervisor and commended his attitude and ability.

Edited by Mr Walker, 16 May 2013 - 01:22 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#30    Sherapy

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 01:17 AM

View Poststop yield, on 15 May 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

None of those are directly related to you. You're not the one who got deathly sick. You're not the one who committed suicide. You're not the one who was the target of murder. It's only natural for you to move on because you don't have any mental problems. You don't have bipolar disorder and OCD. We've all risen above bad situations outside of ourselves. How about those who are constantly under attack, ill because of incurable sickness, on the edge to find their next meal, depressed because the medication has lost its effectiveness?

I hear you, I acknowledge there are many situations that "being happy" rising above it all is not going to help. Then what? What self help quote can one say to someone or themselves who is homeless, or depressed, or Schizophrenic-- that will help? "Change your attitude, you are what you think, heaven is a state of mind?"  I agree there are things that suck and that are not going to get better no matter what one thinks. In those times there is nothing to say or offer accept human kindness/compassion and that may not be enough. What about those experiences and are people less then because they do not find a way to be happy or can not be happy about it? You bring in good points.

Edited by Sherapy, 16 May 2013 - 01:18 AM.







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