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Sorry, We're Not Living in Orwell's "1984"


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#16    Jessica Christ

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:00 PM

Repeating the most relevant portion.

Quote

If you are invoking 1984 in a country in which 1984 is available for purchase and can be freely deployed as a rhetorical device, you likely don’t understand the point of 1984.


And Orwell's own view which would disagree with anyone labeling our own democratic society as 1984-like.

Quote

In his 1941 essay “England Your England,” Orwell took pains to highlight this distinction. While identifying the United Kingdom’s numerous “barbarities and anachronisms”—and even declaring the country not a “genuine democracy”—he argued that these defects meant that ideas like “democracy is ‘just the same as’ or ‘just as bad as’ totalitarianism” were colossally wrong, employing fallacious “arguments [that] boil down to saying that half a loaf is the same as no bread.”

Sorry, We're Not Living in Orwell's "1984"

Edited by The world needs you, 09 July 2013 - 03:05 PM.


#17    third_eye

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:10 PM

Great ... why don't we ask what Mr Orwell thinks of it today ?

Oh right ...

Let's see what Mr Eric Blair, aka George Orwell said then ...


Quote


Orwell's ambition as a political author was to "make political writing into an art" ('Why I Write'). He saw his duty as being to "attack the Right, but not to flatter the Left". His political views were shaped by his experiences of Socialism, Totalitarianism and Imperialism all over the world. In his essay 'Why I Write' (1946) he admitted that "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly against Totalitarianism and for Democratic Socialism, as I understand it".



link

I think Mr Eric Blair alias George ORwell understands ...

~

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

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#18    questionmark

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:13 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 09 July 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Great ... why don't we ask what Mr Orwell thinks of it today ?

Oh right ...

Let's see what Mr Eric Blair, aka George Orwell said then ...




link

I think Mr Eric Blair alias George ORwell understands ...

~

Problem is that most Orwell invokers don't, bet half of them have not read 1984 but seen that cheap Hollywood flic about it.

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#19    third_eye

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:21 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 09 July 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

Problem is that most Orwell invokers don't, bet half of them have not read 1984 but seen that cheap Hollywood flic about it.

That has always bugged me the most ... and the fact that many reads it but because it is 'just' a fictional title ... they disregards the points raised totally ... as if it was all a fantasy ...

The point is nothing in the books were made up .., only the 'story' is ... the sentiments and conditions provoked by Orwell has always been that way with politics and ruling governments or monarchies ... only the tools and technology available were vastly different in character ... for example Tolkiens 'all seeing eye of Sauron' now that is fantasy ... but the underlying principle is the same ...

~

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#20    Jessica Christ

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:24 PM

Trivia: George Orwell and Ian Fleming were born 5 years apart and both went to Eton.

They had opposing views regarding intelligence gathering and spying. Both were off the mark but it was fiction after all.

Here is a U-M thread regarding Eton and other schools although I do not share the anti-elitism sentiment that plagues that thread.

Edited by The world needs you, 09 July 2013 - 03:27 PM.


#21    third_eye

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 03:26 PM

James Bond ... great ... what's next ... mutant ninja turtles ... nice job turning Orwell over in his grave ....

~

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#22    Jeremiah65

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:24 PM

View PostPurifier, on 09 July 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Well unless they put a small camera somewhere in your TV out front. I guess it would depend on the TV exactly where they would put it.

Have you read into the new X-Box 1?  It's a real piece of work!  It has a built in camera that is always on and for the console to function, the thing MUST be connected to the internet for at least a certain amount of time everyday to upload and download info.  One clever thing that it has is "facial recognition software" so the unit knows the different players...how nice is that?

Microsoft has since started making back steps because people were outraged.  The PS4 was almost guaranteed to blow it away in sales.  Because of the speculated sales, Microsoft has apparently said they are making changes.

I do not trust them.  I have always preferred Playstations over Xbox's anway but initially, Microsoft was so arrogant in their replies to people's concerns...I doubt they changed anything, just stated they did.

Edited by Jeremiah65, 09 July 2013 - 06:26 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#23    Jeremiah65

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:45 PM

Well...

If one cannot extrapolate the dark fantasy world of Orwell's vision of 1984 technology capabilities and the capabilities of today's technology...you're not worth arguing with.

I personally have never said the book was an accidental prophecy.  My position when I have made comparisons... is the scary fact that YOU CAN make comparisons!

If you think about what the technology in his nightmare vision was capable of and what we can do today (if someone were to choose to do so)...it's a concerning thought.

I think what many people are concerned with is that there will always be someone like "Herbert Hoover" in power somewhere.  There is little doubt they will use this technology in dark ways as long as they can get away with it...and they will to some measure.

What amazes me is how some folks just cannot even imagine their "wonderful leader" would ever stoop into darkness and do bad-bad things...yet they all can, do and will again.

If you think your progressive heroes do not have a dark streak...well...

Posted Image

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#24    questionmark

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 06:57 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 09 July 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

Well...

If one cannot extrapolate the dark fantasy world of Orwell's vision of 1984 technology capabilities and the capabilities of today's technology...you're not worth arguing with.

I personally have never said the book was an accidental prophecy.  My position when I have made comparisons... is the scary fact that YOU CAN make comparisons!

If you think about what the technology in his nightmare vision was capable of and what we can do today (if someone were to choose to do so)...it's a concerning thought.

I think what many people are concerned with is that there will always be someone like "Herbert Hoover" in power somewhere.  There is little doubt they will use this technology in dark ways as long as they can get away with it...and they will to some measure.

What amazes me is how some folks just cannot even imagine their "wonderful leader" would ever stoop into darkness and do bad-bad things...yet they all can, do and will again.

If you think your progressive heroes do not have a dark streak...well...

Posted Image

Having not read Orwell is what makes you extrapolate. If you had reads it you would know that it hardly was about technology, but about propaganda people swallow set into a forbidden love drama.

During the whole piece he is poking fun at Stalinist propaganda, not at technology, and technology hardly plays a role in the whole plot.

Propaganda is not new... it is as old as the world cares to remember... therefore: we are not living 1984... we have always lived it.

Edited by questionmark, 09 July 2013 - 06:57 PM.

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#25    spartan max2

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:02 PM

View PostHilander, on 09 July 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

One day you'll be watching TV and they'll be watching you back.

The new Xbox One :whistle:

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#26    preacherman76

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:11 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 09 July 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Having not read Orwell is what makes you extrapolate. If you had reads it you would know that it hardly was about technology, but about propaganda people swallow set into a forbidden love drama.

During the whole piece he is poking fun at Stalinist propaganda, not at technology, and technology hardly plays a role in the whole plot.

Propaganda is not new... it is as old as the world cares to remember... therefore: we are not living 1984... we have always lived it.

To some extent certainly. But as the days go by its looking more and more like a full replica. There is a little ways to go, and it wont be exactly the same in every way. But its definityl comparable.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#27    Gravitorbox

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:18 PM

Actually, what a lot of people don't realize is the inspiration for a lot of 1984 wasn't Stalinism or even Fascism, but the neurotic behavior of revolutionary leftists, specifically what Orwell experienced during the Spanish civil war. The Republicans would accuse each other of being Fascists, reactionary, and such, because leftism by nature isn't based on reality - the words "Fascist", "reactionary", etc. are defined by them and are not tied to reality.

Orwell's doublespeak is basically the language leftists use, redefining words and such.

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#28    Jeremiah65

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 07:19 PM

No...it was not only about technology...but it was there...not arguing...it's been over 30 years since I read it.

Ah yes...lovely propaganda...

Posted Image


Posted Image

We would never do anything like that in this country.

Posted Image

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#29    Kowalski

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:41 PM

Some good videos to watch....

This one is only two minutes, but excellent:

George Orwells Final Warning: http://m.youtube.com...feature=related

Aldous Huxley: A Warning to America: http://m.youtube.com...feature=related


#30    DeWitz

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 10:22 PM

View PostPurifier, on 09 July 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

Well unless they put a small camera somewhere in your TV out front. I guess it would depend on the TV exactly where they would put it.

Sorry I can't produce a citation or link, but I heard on NPR (USA public radio) 2-3 months ago that the newest televisions do have built-in cameras which, of course, can be enabled remotely.

Edited by szentgyorgy, 09 July 2013 - 10:23 PM.

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