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Underwater civilisation predating last iceage


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#46    Harte

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:28 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 August 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Can you post the link which says that Yonaguni sunk 2000 years back due to tectonic plate movement?

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Submerged stone structures lying just below the waters off Yonaguni Jima are actually the ruins of a Japanese Atlantis—an ancient city sunk by an earthquake about 2,000 years ago.
That's the belief of Masaaki Kimura, a marine geologist at the University of the Ryukyus in Japan who has been diving at the site to measure and map its formations for more than 15 years.
Source: NatGeo


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Also another thing that surprises me is that we so blatantly refuse the possibility of the Atlantis myth being true to a certain degree when we often commit to the fact that cities did actually get submerged by water

Plato knew of sites that disappeared underwater during his lifetime (Helike, for example) so, in fact, it's not surprising at all that he would write this and so why should such a thing be considered as possible evidence in favor of the existence of Atlantis?

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#47    cormac mac airt

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 10 August 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

Can you post the link which says that Yonaguni sunk 2000 years back due to tectonic plate movement?



Also another thing that surprises me is that we so blatantly refuse the possibility of the Atlantis myth being true to a certain degree when we often commit to the fact that cities did actually get submerged by water

Plato gave a specific location and a specific timeframe. Neither of which is supported by the available scientific evidence from multiple disciplines, which shows that no such place ever existed. Nor was there an "Atlantis myth" before Plato wrote about it. You may not like the facts, but they're there anyway.

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The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#48    AREA__51

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 07:57 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 08 August 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

What is Graham Hancock's qualification??
You tell me!
Does he have a background in Archaeology or History or palaentology or  anthropology etc?
Nada. Nil. Zilch.
All he has is a Degree in Journalism and an over imaginative brain.

Read any of his books.
Does he ever state anything with finality?
Never.

lets discuss.
I've read everything graham hancock has written and am quite the fan. He doesnt go so far out to claim something as fact as most ancient civilization theorists do. He merely speculates. He's a highly qualified diver and has put countless hours in the field studying underwater structures. He's just asking people to be openminded and hes not forcing his beliefs onto anyone. Hancock really does stand out from the crowd. I have little respect for many of these authors and theorists, but I've got tremendous repect for Hancock. he's asking question, like we all should do, and not forcing psuedoscience nonsense like the rest of them. He may not have a degree in any specific field, but does he really need one?


#49    Abramelin

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:05 PM

Yes, he needs a degree in a specific field to make his theories based on sound facts and science, not based on knitting unrelated facts and cultures together in a captivating fanstasy story.

If you think he doesn't need one, you might as well read a scifi novel.

There are some really intelligently written ones, and those I love to read.

And, btw,  he has been proven wrong.

But I must admit: he is not a pathological liar like Von Däniken is.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 August 2012 - 08:05 PM.


#50    AREA__51

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:14 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 10 August 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Yes, he needs a degree in a specific field to make his theories based on sound facts and science, not based on knitting unrelated facts and cultures together in a captivating fanstasy story.

If you think he doesn't need one, you might as well read a scifi novel.

There are some really intelligently written ones, and those I love to read.

And, btw,  he has been proven wrong.

But I must admit: he is not a pathological liar like Von Däniken is.

.
Well I look at people like giorgio tsoukalos who is pretty much the leading authority on everything balogny, and hes got a degree in sports journalism. You don't need a degree to theorize. hancock is pretty humble, he cites a lot of references when he's talking about something he's not all that knowledgeable in. hancock is merely an author whos interested in the subject, nothing more, and hes never claimed to be anything more. hes just trying to figure things out, not trying to make his ideas "fact". And a lot of this ancient civilization stuff is pretty much science fiction anyways.

Edited by AREA__51, 10 August 2012 - 08:15 PM.


#51    Abramelin

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:19 PM

I would be 'humble' too with the sales of his books, lol. Don't be arrogant, and live happily from the money you earned.

Come on, he's a professional journalist, and he knows how to get public attention.

But despite my skepsis, I have no real problem with him.

It's just that he's wrong most of the time.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 10 August 2012 - 08:20 PM.


#52    AREA__51

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:30 PM

I'm not sure how his paycheck is relevant. Are you saying he is just writing about the subject to make money?  He's  made thousands of dives offshore to investigate underwater structures. He also writes about conciousness, and has ingested ayahuasca several times. he must really like the money to go through all that unnecessary stuff. Why even bother doing all that? if it was just about the money, I'm sure he would just write a book and leave it at that. Btw, I'm a huge skeptic, so it takes a lot to impress me. hancock is one of very few people who has done just that, and I think hes as legit as they come.


#53    Abramelin

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:48 PM

He knows how to make money of the things he loves to fantasize about. He is a professional writer, meaning he earns his money by what he writes about. Get it?

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Thousands of dives?? You are 'slightly' exaggerating now, right? Dozens is the word.

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Anyway, I wish I had thought of his tactic years ago.

He's clever, I'll give him that... and yeah, I do respect him for that.  But if I had been a writer, I could have written about things not many (if any) here has ever seen with their own eyes. Well, I did see with my own eyes, and posted about it here. The fossilized skull of a primitive human for instance,  in a Jesuit museum (the La Recoleta monastery) in Arequipa (Peru).

If I remember right, they had estimated its age at around 100,000 BP.

Can I prove it?

No.

I took a snapshot of the thing (with accompanying text in Spanish), and when I came home I found out my camera had failed (low batteries).

But if I am persistent, and like a Hancock, I could write a booklet about it.



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Edited by Abramelin, 10 August 2012 - 08:49 PM.


#54    AREA__51

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 08:53 PM

graham hancock -"I have been privileged and lucky enough to travel very extensively over the twenty years or so that I have focused my life on the mystery of a lost civilization. In terms of specific diving, I have dived incredibly extensively around the islands of Japan - hundreds and hundreds of dives - specifically at the extraordinary sites off the island of Yonaguni in southwest Japan where we find gigantic steps, pyramid like structures under water."
There is nothing wrong with making money writing about what interests you. Im just saying that the money is irrelevant and doesnt make him less humble. i'm sure he would contiue to write about what genuinely interests him, regardless of the money.

Edited by AREA__51, 10 August 2012 - 08:54 PM.


#55    Abramelin

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 10:48 PM

But he lives from the money he earns by writing those books.

It's his fkg JOB!

And no, there's nothing wrong with making money by the work you do, as long as those who buy your stuff know you ALSO do it for the money.

The word for today is "BEWARE".


#56    PersonFromPorlock

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 11:29 PM

View PostThe_Spartan, on 10 August 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Atlantis was and is a allegory.

Or possibly  a croc.


#57    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:04 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 10 August 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Yes, he needs a degree in a specific field to make his theories based on sound facts and science, not based on knitting unrelated facts and cultures together in a captivating fanstasy story.

If you think he doesn't need one, you might as well read a scifi novel.

There are some really intelligently written ones, and those I love to read.

And, btw,  he has been proven wrong.

But I must admit: he is not a pathological liar like Von Däniken is.

.
If a apple would have fallen on my head and i did say it was due to gravity no one would believe me but just coz it fell on newtons head it is accepted as fact...........


#58    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:10 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 10 August 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

Plato gave a specific location and a specific timeframe. Neither of which is supported by the available scientific evidence from multiple disciplines, which shows that no such place ever existed. Nor was there an "Atlantis myth" before Plato wrote about it. You may not like the facts, but they're there anyway.

cormac
So you saying Plato was wrong about geographical locations............whats that gotta do with a possibility of Atlantis having existed?.And how would you know that there was no Atlantis myth before Plato wrote about it?You are passing lot of your personal assumptions as facts.......a thing you accuse Fringe writers of doing. A classic example of 'shoot the messenger' form of criticism


#59    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 10:24 AM

View PostHarte, on 10 August 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Source: NatGeo




Plato knew of sites that disappeared underwater during his lifetime (Helike, for example) so, in fact, it's not surprising at all that he would write this and so why should such a thing be considered as possible evidence in favor of the existence of Atlantis?

Harte
You just quoted something calling Yonaguni a Japanese Atlantis.Mr Masaka Kimura has not written and published any papers regarding his dating of Yonaguni,and neither has been peer reviewed (or has he?).If he hasn't it is surprising how readily you accept a date suggested by him.
Now since we find common ground at least in agreeing that ancient cities could have disappeared underwater we can probably also agree that one such city/civilization could have been very advance for its time (as recently we found out about Gobekli Tepe which is staring conventional timeline for advance in civilization in the face).
Imagine if the great pyramid was not actually present in front of our eyes and we probably had heard only stories about it would you believe that a structure like it could have ever existed?.
I feel Plato was exaggerating but can't dismiss the story completely.


#60    cormac mac airt

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Posted 11 August 2012 - 03:01 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 11 August 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

...whats that gotta do with a possibility of Atlantis having existed?.

And how would you know that there was no Atlantis myth before Plato wrote about it?

You are passing lot of your personal assumptions as facts...

Since Plato is the one who wrote the story, it's got everything to do with the existance of Atlantis.

Because it doesn't exist anywhere in Greek or Egyptian myths, legends or history.

You're assuming you can rationalize Atlantis into existance. It doesn't work that way.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus




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